VAT Free Motorhomes

[Melvin]

>:-( Disabled people are abusing a scheme allowing them to buy motorhomes and cars

VAT-free, by selling the top-of-the-range vehicles at a profit.

 

Under the scheme, disabled people are exempt from paying VAT on modified vehicles, which the guidelines state must be for personal use. But police confirmed last night that a “group of people linked by their disabilities” were abusing the system and making hundreds of thousands of pounds.

 

The scam operates by wheelchair-users ordering exclusive vehicles, usually available only on a waiting list, and making a minor modification, such as adding a knob on the steering wheel. The modification is then removed and the vehicle is sold at an instant profit of several thousand pounds, while undercutting the showroom retail price.

 

South Yorkshire Police’s fraud squad has raided properties across four counties in its investigation of the practice. Detective Inspector Graham Wragg said: “I suspect there are more and more people across the country who are abusing the system in this way and there may be many more vehicles out there that have been obtained in this way.”

 

He said that all the suspects were genuinely disabled and receiving state benefits. “I wouldn’t say it’s an organised criminal gang as such. It’s a group of people who are linked by their disabilities who seem to have recognised a weakness in this area and they are all doing the same kind of abuse of the system,” he told BBC Radio 4’sYou and Yours consumer affairs programme.

 

Any fraud investigation would consider whether the applicants had exaggerated their disabilities to claim benefits and whether by selling the vehicles they had been trading and so breaching their incapacity benefit conditions.

 

The Department for Work and Pensions said that it would not comment on individual cases, but Vernon Sanderson, of the department’s Yorkshire and Humberside fraud team, told the BBC: “The benefit fraud aspect comes in where evidence suggests their disability isn’t as severe as stated, which in turn allowed them access to the scheme in the first place. And also our rules on claiming incapacity benefit are quite clear, which is that you are only allowed to do permitted work and buying and selling cars in large volume doesn’t come under that.”

 

It is understood that the group has targeted top-of-the-range Land Rovers, Bentleys, Maseratis and Lamborghinis, costing up to £70,000. That means that the group’s members could save as much as £12,250 on each transaction in VAT. They could therefore earn several thousand pounds profit on each sale and still undercut the retail price. The cars would then be sent to another garage to be sold as new, “preregistered” vehicles.

 

Several suspects in Yorkshire, the North East and Derbyshire have registered up to 60 top-specification Range Rovers each in the past two years, according to an investigation by You and Yours. Another suspect, in Merseyside, registered 35 in the same period. Six people have been arrested for money laundering in connection with the wide-ranging inquiry and released on police bail. The Department of Work and Pensions and Revenue & Customs refused to confirm whether they were investigating the matter.

[davenewellhome]

"The scam operates by wheelchair-users ordering exclusive vehicles, usually available only on a waiting list, and making a minor modification, such as adding a knob on the steering wheel. The modification is then removed and the vehicle is sold at an instant profit of several thousand pounds, while undercutting the showroom retail price."

 

If the supplying dealer is selling them the vehicles less the VAT with such a minor alteration then they too are breaking the law. To qualify for VAT exemption the vehicle must be adapted to allow the disabled person to use it, they do not have to be the driver but the vehicle must be adapted for their needs and this means more than a knob on the steering wheel or a grab handle by the door.

 

D.

[Guest CAB]

I'm sorry but as a purchaser of Zero Rated (not VAT Free) motorhomes and cars conversions (where the additionl adaptation costs of around £5000-£10000 is not always covered by the saving in tax) I fail to see what relevance this has to the forum.

 

Yes - the system has been abused in the past and will be abused in the future (unless you know of some way to prevent scams and fraud of all descriptions).

 

I'm afraid a knob on the steering wheel is not sufficient to claim Zero rate VAT - the conditions have been relaxed a little in the past 5-6 years but are still quite strict - please read

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000128&propertyType=document#P69_3768

 

In particular "The vehicle must be adapted to enable the disabled wheelchair (or stretcher) user to enter, drive or otherwise travel in the vehicle"

 

Adapted Motorcaravanning gives myself and many other families with disabled members the freedom to travel and to take a break which they could not get in Hotels. Try taking a wheelchair on a train or plane!

 

Clive

 

PS was the story in the Daily Mail?

[peteS]

I'm with Clive on this one. I also have a VAT zero rated MH and this is my second.

 

On both vehicles I have not really saved at all in that the extra costs for the modifications to enable me to drive it have just about wiped out the VAT saving.

 

I do believe that the criteria to enable VAT saving could/should be tightened up.

 

But, we all kmow what happens when that is done, it usually ends up with the people that really need the benefit are excluded.

 

They could put a clause in that if buying at Zero rate then one must keep the vehicle for at least 2 years. This may go some way to stopping the fraudsters.

 

Pete

[colin]

Because you are disabled and abide by the rules doesn't mean others do, I've heard 'stories' of people abusing the system with the colusion of dealers, it is relavant to the forum in so much as, it's a news story about motorhomes , and by the way if anyone is (or has been) offered a zero vat deal for a small mod "for a disabled relative" make sure you know what "you" are doing not just acept what the salesman says.

[Guest CAB]

Apologies ... to the Daily Mail.

 

The article appears to have been copied directly from The Times. but...

July 26, 2007!! Link below if you want to waste even more time.

 

Melvin - could you explain the relevance and why you bothered?

Or am I missing something?

 

Now back to the MOTORHOME threads.

 

Clive

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2141854.ece

[Melvin]

Clive accept my apologise for your wasting time. I was trying to highlight the some dealer are pushing the VAT exemption

 

The article was emailed to me by a fellow disabled person, I did not know it was an extract from a newspaper.

 

I recently signed up for a new motorhome, the dealer assured me because I use a mobility scooter I would be VAT excempt. I now find I am NOT entitled.

 

In 2005 I suffered a tramatic Subachnoid brain Hamerroge following an accident, which has caused me physical and mental disability.

 

 

 

 

 

:$ :$

[donna miller]

CAB - 2008-11-14 7:53 PM

 

 

 

Melvin - could you explain the relevance and why you bothered?

Or am I missing something?

 

Now back to the MOTORHOME threads.

 

Clive

 

 

I think you'll find that he bothered because he, like many others on here, like to keep abreast of news that involves MOTORHOMES.

 

Now, if you're complaining as a disabled motorhomer who has had the good fortune of being eligible for this concession, may I respectfully suggest that you realise that certain people ARE abusing the system, and if it were not for people like Melvin bringing it to our attention, we would be unaware. However, now I know it's happening, I will keep my eyes and ears open, and report anyone I hear about who is abusing this system.

It's only the genuine disabled who are going to suffer when the government remove this help, so dont knock the very people who would be prepared to step up and offer you support.

 

After all, this is a MOTORHOME matter, on a MOTORHOME forum.

 

>:-(

[catinou]

CAB - 2008-11-14 7:53 PM

 

Melvin - could you explain the relevance and why you bothered?

Or am I missing something?

 

Now back to the MOTORHOME threads.

 

Clive

 

Seems to be something in the water tonight. *-)

[Guest CAB]

Melvin

It is me who should apologise - and I do so most sincerely.

I now appreciate the reasoning behind the posting.

I also know that you would not welcome sympathy - only understanding and support.

 

Casting my mind back I think I recall that the scam principally involved genuinely disabled people (I think one or two may even have competed in the paralympics) purchasing mainly high value cars (Mercedes etc) in short supply to guarantee a sale, then selling them on within a matter of weeks.

 

I have been purchasing adapted vehicles since 1986 (I'm not disabled myself - it is my daughter who lives with us) and in those days there was a thing called "Car Tax" from which the vehicle was exempt. It was also a bit of a lottery because you had to have the adaptations carried out and then approved by C&E - if it didn't meet their approval you paid the full price of the vehicle and the cost of the adaptation (in my case wheelchair ramp access, locking systems, seat belts etc.).

 

I normally kept the vehicles at least 3 years, but once I sold after 2 years and had the taxman chasing after me for (I think) 1/3 of the tax exemption.

I don't believe the vehicles are now checked by the taxman.

 

I will be picking up my new vehicle next week (if the conversion is completed on time) and, in theory, would be able to sell it almost immediately (I assume I would first have to change the taxation class from "Disabled" to "PLG").

I for one would be happy to return to the "3 year" rule to prevent abuse of this valuable concession.

 

You hit a sensitive spot (don't get me going on able people taking up disabled parking places or abusing orange badges!).

I am concerned that with the current economic climate more dealers will try anything to get a sale. Perhaps anyone in a similar situation should try to get a written guarantee that if the vehicle is not eligible for zero VAT then the dealer will give a 20% discount.

 

After over 20 years of purchasing either adapted cars or more recently motorvans (at 3-4 year intervals) I am reasonably familiar with the regulations (don't forget parts and servicing are also zero rated for VAT - garages and dealers are not always aware of this and can often be difficult - print off a form on the C&E website).

 

I'm now going to bite my lip and crawl under a rock, and only respond if anyone has a question.

 

Clive

[Melvin]

Clive, it not anyone fault, unfortunately due to my injuries, the last 3 years have been a blur, my level of communication is still poor ;-)

 

However, there are so many disabled familes out who are feel should be entitled to the VAT exemption. Most of use scooters instead of wheelchairs, some families have members with learning diffuculties/blindness etc.

 

All I was trying to highlight, there are some disabled persons and dealers still out there, through their own greed, are taking away a lifeline designed for the disabled and ther families/carers. We seem to forget the amount of devoution we recieve from our families/carers.

 

[Mel B]

Being disabled does not go hand in hand with meaning that the disabled person has any scruples. After all, they are just human beings and just like other human beings some are good, some are bad, and some are totally and utterly *%~#^* despicable!

 

If these non-disabled people want to be eligible for zero VAT then I can soon send the 'boys' round and make sure they get their wish!!!!! >:-)

 

The problem with 'scooter' users is that not everyone would meet the criteria for zero benefit, just because they use one doesn't mean they can't do without. Unfortunately, I know of some who took to using scooters for the sake of it, not because they were disabled, but because they didn’t like having to walk anywhere at all when they could ‘ride’. This, unfortunately, has now caused a problem for them in that as they now don't get any exercise at all, walking at any time has become difficult … this could more than likely be resolved if they gradually walked and built up their now little used muscles again … but they won’t … personally, I wouldn’t class them as disabled as it is possible to improve their ‘condition’ but they choose not to. Maybe some won’t agree with me on this, but I think there are enough genuine disabled people who get a raw deal, never mind those who can certainly help themselves and just make it more difficult for those that need the help to get it.

 

I works with 2 people, one (1) who ‘believes’ she is very disabled and lets everyone know about it, and the other (2) who ‘knows’ she is but does her damnedest to not let it affect her as much possible. No (1) is out to get anything she can - she’s called in the Disability Advisor at work without even having the decency to inform her line manager who got a shock at being accused of doing nothing to help … when she hadn’t even been made aware of any problems! She is always complaining about her ‘problems’ … we are sympathetic to her ‘real’ problems but she has lots of ‘copy-cat’ ones … lets just say if she had all that she ‘says’ she had, she’d be in a lab and being studied as to why she’s still around, we’re waiting for her to get some of the ‘male specific’ problems that our new receptionist has!!! It has got to the point where none of us say anything to her if we are unwell etc as we know she’ll get it as well (even if it’s not catching). She refuses to help herself and stop doing things that make her ‘conditions’ worse, such as horse riding/lunging (she’s supposed to have major problems with her shoulders, arms, wrists, hands, back, knees, etc, etc). She’s basically an attention seeker and has cried ‘wolf’ too many times I’m afraid so we are all very wary of what we are told now. It makes us unhappy that we have to be this way but we have been drawn in too many times and then found out we’ve been told a load of porkies … what mentality has someone who ‘pretends’ to have had cancer, or miscarriages!!! Anyway, I digress.

 

At the other extreme No (2) is a mature lady who is registered disabled, has been since her early 20s when she was knocked over by a bus and got a lot of injuries, replacement hip, knee etc, she also suffers from asthma, but does she ever complain - very rarely, she knows that if she is ever having problems or concerns to let us know (we keep an eye on her as she’s a bit of an ‘old soldier’ and look after her when needed to save her from herself!), she enjoys a bit of ribbing and threatens to bash us with her peg leg when she catches us! I know full well that if she could do something to make her conditions better she’d do it, no question.

 

Add to this my Dad, he is disabled, polio as a child left him with severe leg weakness/problems but he was determined to walk rather than be in a wheelchair and he succeeded, he held down a normal job in a garage as their storeman until his retirement, and only in the last few years had he had to use a wheelchair (83 years old now). He had an Invacar but that’s all the help he ever got, then they went and took it away when ‘they’ decided they weren’t needed anymore … took his independence with it … nothing else in it’s place, so he’s now reliant on others and he hates it.

 

Genuine disabled - we should do and give them everything we can to make life as easy, pleasant and comfortable as possible, but those who abuse the system … they are pure and utter trash!

 

Sorry for the rant!

:-|

[Guest JudgeMental]

Melvin - 2008-11-14 8:15 PM

 

Clive accept my apologise for your wasting time. I was trying to highlight the some dealer are pushing the VAT exemption

 

The article was emailed to me by a fellow disabled person, I did not know it was an extract from a newspaper.

 

I recently signed up for a new motorhome, the dealer assured me because I use a mobility scooter I would be VAT excempt. I now find I am NOT entitled.

 

In 2005 I suffered a tramatic Subachnoid brain Hamerroge following an accident, which has caused me physical and mental disability.

 

 

:$ :$

 

Bless you Melvin...but I very much doubt this level of anxiety is doing you any good at all. Please, step back and relax and enjoy all that you have. :-D