Sat Nav tests

[malc d]

It may be of interest to anyone considering buying a sat-nav to know that they are on test in the December " WHICH" magazine ( Consumers Association), with hints on what to look for.

You may find that copies are available in your local library, if you are not a member of the C.A.

 

:-|

 

 

 

[tonyishuk]

Thanks.

 

Rgds

[twooks]

have been n gone n done it - too late she cried is the which report! *-)

 

but can get access to it if anyone needs it I think

 

 

Santa brought a Tom Tom GO, great toy :D :D

 

B-)

[Mel E]

Am I allowed to say that a review is due out shortly in MMM?

 

Mel E

====

[Porky]

Do you have that information on good authority Mel and when might it be. I will be looking to buy so it would be helpfull to know.

 

Porky (well fed and happy despite being credit crunched)

[libby]

The MMM review on Satnav devices should be a fair one, I'm aware that considerable reseach has been gathered in order to produce it.

[spospe]

If you would like to read the current Which? report on Sat-Nav and are not a member, then for the sum of £1-00 you can:

 

http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/sat-navs/best-buy/verdict/

[Brian Kirby]

Porky - 2008-11-19 4:25 PM Do you have that information on good authority Mel and when might it be. I will be looking to buy so it would be helpfull to know. Porky (well fed and happy despite being credit crunched)

He should have - he wrote it!

[Guest Tracker]

It's a shame that the Sat Nav test and review was not in December's MMM as it would have been handy for Santa to refer to as well as us mere mortals.

 

However, having looked at the recent Which test results I have, for simplicity, picked out from their best buys just the Tom Tom and Garmin Sat Navs that both cover all of Western Europe and were each highly rated.

 

These are the Tom Tom 720T at a target price of £120, the 920 at £198 and the One Europe at £137. Of the Garmin range the 660FM at £199 and the overall best buy of the entire test, the 760 at £180.

 

I have not compared all the individual features because we all expect different things of our Sat Nav, but as these are all so closely priced as to make their performance rather than their price the key to which one to buy, it would be very interesting to hear from anyone who has any of the specific models quoted above please.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

OK, here's my experience, based on one trip to Dubrovnik and back (no usable mapping in Croatia) via France, Germany, Austria, Slovenia and Italy.

The unit used was a Garmin Nuvi 760T which, I’m afraid, has proved something of a disappointment overall.

First point, and positive, is that the Nuvi navigated happily enough on main roads and motorways.  However, we were already quite capable of achieving this with paper maps!  The main strength of the Nuvi over paper maps was its detailed views of motorway intersections, and the advice to keep to right, or left, lanes in negotiating these.  This is excellent.  Next positive is that the unit never had problems locating satellites, and maintained a creditably accurate track of our route.  It is also reassuringly solid in feel.

The real problems arose once we were away from such roads, which, for us, is quite a lot of the time!

Much of our dissatisfaction lies in the mapping, which is neither consistently accurate, nor reliably up to date, despite the 2008 tag appended to its title.  We encountered instances of roads and roundabouts that were not indicated, and priorities at junctions that were not as mapped.  I am not referring to obviously recent changes, but those that, from the condition of the road surface, and the abundance of roadside vegetation, must have been in existence for several years.  We further encountered one way streets proposed in the wrong direction, and a car park identified as a road.  In several cases, where dual carriageways entered roundabouts, both lanes of the dual carriageway were identified as exits.  Not good!  From my experience, I would say City Navigator Europe NT 2005 would be a more accurate description of the level of accuracy being achieved.

If buying, make sure you get City Navigator Europe NT 2009, or a free update to this, because many of the “Reduced for Christmas” units seem likely to be the 2008 version, and I am now being invited to upgrade the mapping for £80, which I think excessive for something that seems liable only to be accurate to around 2006.

The second weakness of the Nuvi is that its routing logic is flawed when approaching towns.  It is frequently routes through the town centre, when there is a perfectly viable, and signed, town centre by-pass in existence.  It may be that the logic over emphasises distance over time (although “quickest route” is selected), but in practice it is seldom quicker, or easier, to negotiate a town centre than to use the by-pass.  At other times however (maybe 50% of cases), it will select a by-pass route.  There was no apparent reason for this inconsistency.  Once in a town, the roads are selected without reference to viability.  This trait seems to be exaggerated if the Nuvi has re-calculated at some point previously.  A number were proposed that were so narrow they would barely have been negotiable on a quad bike! 

The third weakness is that the only vehicle options available are automobile, bicycle, or pedestrian; and automobile mode does not cater realistically for vehicles larger than cars.  Add that urban streets are frequently partially obstructed by parked vehicles, and traversing towns under the guidance of this unit becomes even more undesirable.  If a destination is in a town, the centre may be unavoidable, in other cases the routing logic needs to favour bypassing the centre along wider roads.  The answer, which other systems seem to able to achieve, would be to offer alternative vehicle types, with routes better tailored to suit.

The fourth weakness is that the selection of routing options is crude.  The selection of avoidances allows only avoidance or acceptance of U-turns, Major roads, Toll roads, Traffic and Ferries.  However, these options operate merely as “on-off” switches.  (By contrast, my six-year-old version of Autoroute allows preferences to be indicated, on an incremental scale ranging from “Like” to “Dislike”, so that the programme can be trained to adopt a preferred routing logic.)  If “avoid” toll roads is selected on the Nuvi it will not go near one and, if a waypoint is inserted to force it onto a toll section, it will scuttle off at the next junction irrespective of whether the resulting route is logical.  On the other hand, if this is left unchecked, it will consistently seek out motorways in preference to any other, irrespective of the additional distance travelled, even if this offers just a few minutes time advantage.

On a few occasions the voice guidance instructed a turn in one direction, when the map clearly indicated the opposite.  This is potentially confusing.  The voice guidance via radio is not reliably usable, the airwaves being simply too congested.  If a suitable frequency is selected on departure, the transmission will continue satisfactorily until entering an urban area.  Then, more often than not, that frequency is hi-jacked by local radio - usually at the exact point where clear directions have become critical.

Finally, where an intermediate waypoint is missed (due to diversion etc), there is no ready way to delete it “on the fly”, resulting in the unit continuing to try to navigate back, however far beyond that point one has travelled.

I know Garmin is aware of some of these deficiencies, and that they are under review.  I also know they are aware of the out of date mapping, to which they have replied that it is not feasible to maintain all of Europe up to date, and that their maps (by Navteq) are no worse than their competitors (presumably TomTom, whose maps are by Tele Atlas).  Maybe: however, the publishers of paper maps, such as Michelin, produce annually updated that are remarkably up to date, usually with proposed and under construction roads also indicated.  If printed maps can achieve this, I see no reason why, at the price demanded, these digitally generated maps cannot do likewise.

[Keith T]

I also purchased the Garmin 760T, and share most of Brian's disappointments. I'm currently looking at the 'update' which they recently e-mailed me offering a purchase price, I think of about £60.

Howver, one BIG disapointment, is that if you either plan a route, or simply put in a destination, you cannot on the same screen get your current speed showing. To do this, you have to use a different screen, no maps and only a voice for the directions to follow.

One thing which does puzzle me, is how often the 'speed camera' warning gong goes, but there seems no sign of any, even though I keep this updated regularly.

It's also less than a simple operation when planning, to insert any 'vias' and I have seveeral times found the mileage it quoted was significantly different to that on AR Express. This is often due to the fact that it doesn't seem to worrk on a simple logical system as AR Express and even though you put any 'via' in what you think is the correct order, it doesn't seemd to pick that up.

 

I have also found that it often doesn't recognise place names, and very often you don't know the Post Code so can't work from that basis.

 

Is it possible to set up the route on AR Express, then download it to the Sat NAv??

[Guest Tracker]

Flippin eck - experiences to date don't make my old Navman icn510 seem so bad after all!

[Brian Kirby]

Keith T - 2008-11-29 10:57 PM I also purchased the Garmin 760T, and share most of Brian's disappointments. I'm currently looking at the 'update' which they recently e-mailed me offering a purchase price, I think of about £60. ............. One thing which does puzzle me, is how often the 'speed camera' warning gong goes, but there seems no sign of any, even though I keep this updated regularly. ..............

Yes, it's good that bit. isn't it?  It's because the Muppets input a load of temporary, road works, speed restrictions.  I assume they thought the road works would still be there three years later, when they published their 2005 mapping as 2008 mapping.  You steam down the auotroute at 100 Kph with Nelly Whatsit bonging and banging away about some long since disappeared 70 Kph speed restriction for mile after mile. 

Why do they bother?  It isn't as though temporary speed restrictions on motorways are difficult to see - about the only way you could miss most them would be if you were asleep.  Or are they merely catering for those of us who drive in our sleep?  :-)

[Basil]

Reading this I am really glad we opted for our Tom Tom 720 which has not shown any of the aformentioned vices, though I too would like to see some option for larger vehicles available if only for my own peace of mind as it has not let us down to date.

Clearly from what has been stated the TT mapping is better, contrary to what Garmin have told Brian, as none of the problems he experienced with out of date junctions and roundabouts showed on ours in fact I was impressed that new roundabouts in France (clearly new from the state of the road condition) that still had the signage reminding drivers of the new layout in place were shown on the TT.

The latest map technology and the ability for the individual to make corrections themselves and to be able to download others corrections must help here I believe, if as you say some muppet has placed speed restrictions that no longer exist you can correct your own map accordingly so that it is removed and put back to the correct speed, this may also be uploaded for the benefit of others.

Our TomTom is really good and knocks the socks off our old Navman.

 

Bas

[Homenaway]

Hi,

From what I've read here I'll stay with my Directions Pocket Navigator 7 on my trusty Medion PDA which got us around Europe including the Czech Republic and Hungary with no major problems, though we only tend to use satnav for homing in on campsites and aires or to get out of town centres.

 

I have been offered an upgrade to version 8 which I believe has some display improvements. It has truck mode which seems to keep to motorways more!

 

Has anyone got the new version?

 

Steve

 

[Homenaway]

Hi,

Sorry this got sent twice!!??

 

From what I've read here I'll stay with my Directions Pocket Navigator 7 on my trusty Medion PDA which got us around Europe including the Czech Republic and Hungary with no major problems, though we only tend to use satnav for homing in on campsites and aires or to get out of town centres.

 

I have been offered an upgrade to version 8 which I believe has some display improvements. It has truck mode which seems to keep to motorways more!

 

Has anyone got the new version?

 

Steve

 

[Guest Tracker]

I understand that some sat navs will not let you display your speed either kph or mph at the same time as the route or the moving map of where you are.

 

My Navman displays speed in a box along the lower edge of the screen and I find it one of the most useful features of the device when abroad as it so hard to see the kph figures on the speedo at a quick glance.

 

I would therefore be keen to learn which units do not include this feature so that I can avoid buying one.

 

Thanks.

[Patricia]

I have the TT 720T bought this year and have been thrilled with it. Much better than my old Medion which did have a lorry selection but I don't think it detoured the route, only allowed for a slower speed. The £120 price tag for the 720T shocked me as I paid much more than that. Still it showed all the very small roads throughout France (which did not show on my companions sat-nav) but I certainly came across several roundabouts and new bits of road (often to a new factory complex) which were not marked on the map. The only improvement I would like is a warning about very narrow roads as I did get caught out in Cornwall. It was a really narrow, heavily over shadowed by trees, very steep downwards slope and absolutely impossible to reverse out of once committed - really nerve wracking!

[tonyishuk]

I read somewhere that TomTom say that the map information is updated by feedback from users with regard to Road Speeds so that an more accurate assement of time of travelling is calculated.

 

Not quite sure how this can be done. It would seem quite complex to me to have the TomTom overwrite the estimated speed / time travelled with the actual speed /time travelled and then send the information to TomTom.

 

Anyone know if this works and does the data gathering also apply on the continental maps ?

 

I think it was on the site http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/ which I notice has a headline that Panasonic have pulled the plug on Europe mapping and TomTom have a online routing system.

 

(I have only just seen the headlines but have read no further yet)

 

Rgds

[Porky]

The new TT Go Live models provide current information on jams and errors or changes to maps etc through active feedback from users. I was told by the salesman when I bought mine yesterday that average speeds are obtained through the mobile phone network. Didn,t understand how this could work but then I don`t understand how the TT works either!!!!

 

Porky

[Basil]

It is not just the latest TT models that feature this and it is not only by mobile phone (that is only if you subscribe to that option). With the latest Navcore updates most models of TomTom, certainly the Go series, are now able to feedback 'IR' (Intelligent Routing).

Basically details of the routes you have travelled and the time taken at the time of day you travelled are fed back to TomTom when you log on to update (with your permission for which you are asked if you wish to subscribe or else you can opt out but still benefit from others offerings) as well as any alterations that you have made to your own mapping. TT then analyse this data and it is fed back out to those logging on to update each week thus enabling the TT device to make a more intelligent assessment of the routing to take you on from the information gained.

As I have indicated before Tom Tom certainly has the lead on all other makes with their ability to be updated by you, the user, and by others reported changes each time you log on and update. It is the single most important thing to be up to date and the reason why in my opinion the Tom Tom is the only one to have currently.

 

Bas

[duffers]

please sirs n ladies,

can I ask a dumb question?

 

what if any is the advantage of the SD card option?

It doesn't seem to operate as intuitively as SD card in cameras or used as reader with a PC.

TomTom doesn't seem to be able to read both it and its main drive, and it seems as though you have to access the card through the PC

If I want to add lots of POIs - campsites / aires / good pubs whatever, is there a simple fool proof [ray proof] idiots guide anywhere? That takes you from the

1 turn on TT

then step by slow step all the way to

999 you have successfully loaded new POIs and the system is ready to go

 

in words of one syllable, with all the info on the same sheet. With advice as to whether to bother with an SD card?

 

sorry - I know this info is out there but it all seems to be scattered around on different threads n websites.

I've tried reading the TT manual but it seems worse than useless, on this matter at least, and have followed W2G's links to the GPS site, but it all is way over my head, I think *-)

 

 

thanks in advance to any kind soul out there who can help

 

ray

[Mel E]

Since the middle of last year TomTom have wholly owned Tele-Atlas who provide their maps. This has obviously led to them working closer together.

 

They introduced IR (Intelligent Routing) as a way of overcoming the age-old problem of mapping systems - sending you straight through town rather than along the much longer ring road. According to descriptions given on their web site they initially fitted a significant number of vehicles with tracking devices which recorded actual journey times as well as distances along each segment of mapped road. By using the time, more accurate routing is claimed. User input is also accepted but it seems to take many months to get incorporated into the system as each input has to be checked.

 

However IR does not take account of time of day or day of week, so will produce the same route for 0400 on a Sunday as it does for 0800 on a Monday.

 

Mel E

====

[arturus]

After reading Steve's post regarding Pocket Navigator 7 and then the query about version 8 I had a look for it.

It appears that their are two versions The normal "car" version and also a "truck" version (more expensive 0f course).

 

According to the blurb

"Navigator 8 Truck version takes into account:

- truck mode knows about low bridges and narrow lanes

- set your own vehicle dimensions and weight and let Navigator find your route accordingly"

This sounds very interesting.

Regards

BrianM

 

[Way2Go]

duffers - 2008-12-09 2:59 PM . . . . and have followed W2G's links to the GPS site, but it all is way over my head, I think *-) thanks in advance to any kind soul out there who can help ray

Ray, send me a PM with your email address and I'll post you some notes ;-)

Regarding the SD or no SD question, I understand that the SD card can be used for an additional map or for playing MP3 music.

W2G