matty Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 hello andy, i am due to buy a fiat chieftain on a 08 model the 3.0 version and after reading your columns i am concerned about the gearbox problems. i have already put a deposit on it would it be better to wait for the 09 model and defalt my deposit? any advise would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Hi Matty, Welcome to the Forum, If i were you i would read 'Tricky Dicky's' recent post about Fiat reverse juddering responsibilty, as his posistion sounds very similar to yours. And it concerns an Autotrail. I think they(Autotrail) have made a mistake switching to 'Sevel only' vehicles,especially at this time. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 You would be wise to cancel your order, on the basis that there is an unreasonable risk that the vehicle supplied may have serious transmission problems. However, if it is a stock vehicle, explain your concerns to the dealer, ask him for a test drive, find a hill, and either reverse it yourself, or invite the dealer to do so. The latter will be the most revealing, as you can then watch exactly what he does, without the stress of reversing a large, unfamiliar, vehicle yourself. If it judders, as it may, I think you'll know about it, and if he fries the clutch you'll smell it. In the process, you may have educated one dealer about what the problem actually is.If you don't like the feel or smell of the test drive (or if you have not ordered a stock vehicle), explain that you consider the vehicle unsatisfactory (or liable to be unsatisfactory) and because of that, you want to cancel the order and have your deposit back. He'll probably kick up a fuss, but you may be able to negotiate a switch to a different stock vehicle. If there is nothing in stock that you like, ask what he has on order for delivery within the next few months.If you can't reach agreement of any kind with him, just say you need to think about it further. Then, take a copy of your order along to Trading Standards, and ask them if you can legally be held to your contract under the circumstances. They may not say "no", but at least you'll know where you stand legally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 Thanks for your advice i will be taking the van out tomorrow for a test drive to see what happens in reverse. Either way it will hopefully give me an answer to a bizarre defect to this exspensive purchase. Maybe it answers why they are coming down in price it usually is too good to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 hello I have been back in contact with the dealer and didnt need to test drive it as he said it is a character of the fiat gearbox and said they have not had any 6 speed problems just one problem with the 5 speed. I asked to cancel the purchase and pay back my £1000 deposit and has refused saying it is not good enough excuse. This dealer is a large player and i am very suprised that they refused bluntly and it has only been two weeks as i have tried to have contact with them with no anwser back. They must need the money more than we do but i suppose i should have done more research regarding the unit and the dealer. matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Unbelievable. Everyone, including this rogue dealer knows that is the 6 speed version which are sustaining clutch and gearbox damage, and not the 5 speed ones. AS Peugeot now admit that a modified 6 speed box is being tested, and Fiat are supplying it, and Fiat also now admit that its a defect they are working on, these folk are either very stupid or very dishonest. Who is the dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Hi matty, Have you been reading the posts on this Forum re Fiat and gearboxes, if not I suggest you do pronto then go and ask the dealer for your money back. As I understand from Andy Stothert's postings the main complaint is against the 6 speed box and not the 5 speed. The dealer will tell you anything to get you to part with your money, whether you believe him or not is down to how gullible you are! Keith. Edited: Post crossed with Andy's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 matty - 2008-11-18 1:19 PM hello I have been back in contact with the dealer and didnt need to test drive it as he said it is a character of the fiat gearbox and said they have not had any 6 speed problems just one problem with the 5 speed. I asked to cancel the purchase and pay back my £1000 deposit and has refused saying it is not good enough excuse. This dealer is a large player and i am very suprised that they refused bluntly and it has only been two weeks as i have tried to have contact with them with no anwser back. They must need the money more than we do but i suppose i should have done more research regarding the unit and the dealer. matty Yet another strange post on this subject. How can you cancel if you have not tested the van? Who is this dealer, why not name them and people involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Matty Call the dealers bluff, state, not just say so. State if he will not accept what you say tell him, (not suggest) and give him 7 days or you WILL apply for court proceedings. Go to your local office they will tell you what to do. So there's no "I cannot remember from him" put a letter together and serve it on him! There's enough solid evidence on here to provide reason. And tell everyone on here who it is. Its not illegal to say you were visiting Blogs the dealer yesterday and where he has previously been excellent his attitude has changed. It makes my blood boil !!!!!!! These dealers WILL KNOW ALL ABOUT the problem and are just trying move a sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted November 18, 2008 Author Share Posted November 18, 2008 I will start from the begining to make sure are not wrong in what i am writing. I paid a deposit for £1000 for a 08 cheiftain which had been used at two shows, the control panel, fridge panel and the flip down tv was missing, the carpet was black where people had been walking on it. The dealer said all will be fine and be replaced, i agreed. no mention of the gearbox only that it had a two year warrenty on the fiat base.since last week we have made 3 emails and six phone calls to be fobbed off.Not knowing about the gearbox problem i have tried to back out or cancel. On the last telephone conversation he is telling me they sold 170 vans this year with only one van with a gearbox problem the 130 version. No problems at all with the 160 he said. It seems that they are not taking me serious because i am young inexperienced. The dealer still never offered to let me test drive it maybe they robbed the gearbox along with the other parts for another van. {only joking}but i am still going to pursue my deposit.The dealer is based at newark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 as this vehicle is a show demonstrator my biddy then there is absolutly no reason why a dealer cannot let you have a thurugh test drive before handing over any money. if the motorvan is not up to standard me ansum then the law is on your side and you should get your money back. take a witness with you on the test drive is denzils advice. alice would handbag em, but thats anuther story for anuther time ? frothebuckatemfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Just be aware Matty that not all the FIATs have a problem reversing. I have a 2008 Cheyenne 660 that doesn't have a judder when I have reversed it on several occasions. True, I haven't tried it up a hill as have lots of people but have done it on several sites and roads when I have had to turn it round. I haven't had to reverse on a steep hill in "real life" and I didn't have to do it in my previous Peugeot van either. I have done 12,000 miles plus in both vans and been lucky enough to have trouble free motoring. That's not to denigrate any people having a problem, or that I might have a judder on steep hills myself but don't know it! But just to remind you you can't claim all FIAT gearboxes are duff to your dealer. (Who by the way sounds a right pirate and deserves to be named and shamed!) You could always go for a second hand Merc Chieftain if you do walk away. There will be some good low milage bargains out there now with the state of the industry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 matty - 2008-11-18 6:26 PM I will start from the begining to make sure are not wrong in what i am writing. I paid a deposit for £1000 for a 08 cheiftain which had been used at two shows, the control panel, fridge panel and the flip down tv was missing, the carpet was black where people had been walking on it. The dealer said all will be fine and be replaced, i agreed. no mention of the gearbox only that it had a two year warrenty on the fiat base.since last week we have made 3 emails and six phone calls to be fobbed off.Not knowing about the gearbox problem i have tried to back out or cancel. On the last telephone conversation he is telling me they sold 170 vans this year with only one van with a gearbox problem the 130 version. No problems at all with the 160 he said. It seems that they are not taking me serious because i am young inexperienced. The dealer still never offered to let me test drive it maybe they robbed the gearbox along with the other parts for another van. {only joking}but i am still going to pursue my deposit.The dealer is based at newark. Then Matty, follow the advice I gave in my post above. Don't waste your time in phone calls, e-mails, or letters, because said dealer has a reputation of not responding to these.Get over there with someone mature and reliable who can act as a witness, and take with you whatever evidence of the judder problem you can dredge up. Try a pm to Andy Stothert to see if he can provide something (sorry again Andy!). Make notes of who you speak to, the date, and what he/you say. By all means, offer to negotiate for a different van if they have one they can show you. I assume you still want a motorhome, and would like an Autotrial, so you should have a fair bit of choice. If you don't like what he says don't get angry, remain calm, ask if that is his last word, say good-bye (explain the circumstances beforehand to your witness, stressing that he mustn't pitch in however indignant he feels), and then do as I suggested and get to Trading Standards with your order, and your notes, and see what they advise. Don't delay - go to Newark ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Hi matty By the dealer 'knowing' about the judder and saying it is a characteristic, whether it is, or is not, is he actually confirming that this particular 'van has the judder? If so, I would have thought that he should've told you as it may be that you are not able to drive it safely with this. I'm not saying that you are incompetent, but the dealer doesn't know your driving skills. The only way to be sure is to test drive it - if you did and it was okay once you'd done a thorough test including a reverse hill start, would you be willing to accept it? No reputable dealer would ever expect you to buy a 'used' van without driving it, and even dealers from who you would buy a new van from would expect you to at least be given a test drive in a vehicle of a similar type so you can see if you can actaully drive it okay (seat height, brake/clutch/throttle control okay, etc, etc). They can't make you test drive but I wouldn't have thought they could refuse to let you actually drive the vehicle you are being sold. You have genuine concerns as to the state of the vehicle and they should be doing all that they can to ensure that those concerns are addressed, not fob you off. As they haven't bothered to respond to you (emails are a very good record!) this shows that they are not treating you fairly. I think you need to get in touch with Trading Standards BEFORE you do anything else and see what they would advise you to do and ensure that you don't do anything to undermine your case. It's fine to visit them in person and take a friend with you as a witness, but the problem is that it is going to be very difficult for that friend to stay neutral. You'd be better of seeing if someone from Trading Standards would be willing to accompany you, they do sometimes do this. It might also be useful to take a voice recorder with you so you can use as a memory aid to write notes afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted November 20, 2008 Author Share Posted November 20, 2008 thank you again for all advise, I have been on to trading standards by phone and advised me under the 1979 goods act they are entitled to my deposit but the adviser said i stand a good chance if i have proof from fiat about the gearbox problems. I have to write a letter with proof and that it is a new motorhome with fiat approval.I feel completely unsatisfied with the purchase and the way it has {not } been dealt with. God knows what the aftersales, service would be like. Anyone recommend a dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Matty, yes I can and will recommend a dealer, Todds of Lostock Hall near Preston. Bought new from them in2003 and have had excellent service from them on all aspects. Good luck with your dosh. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Hi you have said that you stand to lose £1000.00p, but how much will you lose in money, how much in frustration in trying to deal with this company, and how much heartache for you and your partner (wife?). If you cut your losses and then go to another dealer then I would expect you to be able to negotiate substantially more discount than £1000, so in the end you would be in profit. Just think of the satisfaction of telling this dealer to get stuffed and you could always tell your story to as many as possible so in the end he, the dealer and the salesman will lose out even more in the long term. I would be carefull not to threaten the dealer with what you intend, just meekly say that you accept his attitude and have to lose your deposit, close the situation down and get a letter to that effect. Then he cannot try to do you for loss of income from the sale of the M'home to you. Good luck, but be carefull what you say. I guess some other members my be able to modify my suggestions if needed. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potjoe Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 Hi Matty,We an Auto trail "A"class 7300 last year from the same dealer and got it at a show just like you we got £10.000 off the price BUT did not have a test drive.When we went to pick it up we then did 20 miles down the road and then went back to the dealer went into the show room and saw the sales man and put the keys in is hand said keep it "A total load s"""t ,they said this and that and we have to pay the VAT,i then said new m-home or money back or you Will be getting a letter,with in 2 weeks we had a new Hymer 544sl BUT this time we had a full test dive.Oh and by the way some one went to that dealer to buy A/t A 7300 saw the m-home we did not have and the sale man said oh man that had it new did not like it. IF you cannot go down one road try another way and YOU will get there as we did,we have been back to them and now gone for a 840D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Why not name the dealer, it awfully bad for sales. >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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