Cruise control

[Guest Michael Parker]

I've just discovered cruise control (on a car I just bought), brilliant! Does anyone know whether it can be retro-fitted to my 2003 Autotrail Tracker on Fiat 2.0 JTD?

[Guest Peter Goddard]

There are stacks of companies that will do this (look in MMM). I had mine fitted about three months ago for around £400 but I am sure that you may find them cheaper if you live near a big city. I think most are vacume/mechanical systems at the moment but if you wait a bit new electronic systems are coming on to the market that should plug straight in to your van's ECU.

[Guest William R Dunstone]

Hi Michael, As Peter says there are loads, it depends on how sophisticated you want it to be and how much you want to pay. Conrad Anderson does a very simple one which can be DIY fitted for about £50. Not technically a cruise control but a very useful throttle control (I've had 2). You can set it at the throttle setting and if you come to an incline give it a bit more boot, immediately you touch the foot brake it comes off. Very useful for giving the right foot and leg a chance to move around. BillD

[Guest Paul]

Hi Michael Got mine from Ultimate Design fitted it myself very easy fully electronic and one of my better buys. Cost £350 but then found I could have bought the identical control from Howard May (www.howard-may.co.uk) for substantially less, to the tune of £100, should have consulted the board first!!!

[Guest Clive]

Here is an extract from an article I preperated a few years back. If you DIY then you should look around for the best price. Obviously you have found it a life changing experience as I have. FITTING AN ULTIMATE DESIGN ES001 CRUISE CONTROL I have fitted a Cruise Control Model ES001 from Ultimate in my wife's naturally aspirated 1.7 litre J reg. diesel Astra van. (current body style). The cruise control consists of three basic components :- 1) The Actuator. This is a stepper motor driven unit that operates the accelerator system with a flexible (bowden) cable in exactly the same manner as the drivers accelerator pedal does. It mounts in the engine compartment and is fitted with one multipole connector. It connects mechanically alongside the normal throttle cable. 2) The control unit. This is a small black box that you mount under the dash. It is the “brains” for the cruise control system and includes a small computer, a diagnostic LED, a row of 10 small switches and a wiring harness with plugs and terminals. 3) The command module. This is the bit the driver plays with!. Several shapes are available but all have the same basic controls. The simplest has three buttons. One marked SET/ACC, one marked RES/DEC and one marked COAST. It is important that you mount your command module where it is easily accessible without taking your hands off the steering wheel. The command module is fitted with a harness and multipole connector. 4) It is just possible that you may need to use a sensor coil and some magnets. These are supplied as part of the basic kit just in case. The cruise control needs some signal to tell it the speed of the vehicle. On manual vehicles the speed of the engine will do. On automatics most vehicles today have an impulse counting speedometer. Most diesels have a tachometer and this is invariably driven from impulses from a third terminal on the vehicles alternator. If your car is an old petrol banger then it will have a coil and a set of points. Any of these pulse sources are suitable for use by the ES001 cruise control. If you have none of these then the kit includes some special wire clips and magnets and a pick up coil. The magnets are fitted to a drive shaft and the pick up coil is mounted reasonably close - like within 25 mm or so with brackets supplied. It is not that fussy. The kit from Ultimate Design was very comprehensive with half a professional Mecano kit thrown in to enable each bit to be fitted one way or other in almost every application. The instructions were equally comprehensive. Those with an engineering background will always find more elegant ways of mounting the bits than possible with the Mecano! The electrical part of the installation is straight forward if you READ THE INSTRUCTIONS. The kit includes a pile of ScotchLocks and the harness from the control unit includes two multipole connectors to mate with those from the Actuator and Command module. Other connections include 12 volts from the key switch, negative (chassis), each side of the foot brake switch. (it won’t work if these are not both connected) and a pulse input from somewhere. - 3 - THE CRUISE CONTROL IN USE Drive the car normally at the speed you wish to maintain and press the SET/ACC button and release your foot from the accelerator. The ES001 WILL control the throttle for you to maintain that speed. If you want to increase speed then tap the SET/ACC button a few times, about 2 taps = + 1MPH. If you want to slow down a bit tap the DEC/RES button. One touch of the brake pedal or the COAST button immediately releases accelerator control back to the drivers pedal. If you want to resume the speed last set having cancelled for some reason then touch the DEC/RES button, the car will smoothly accelerate up to then maintain the last set speed. This resume feature does not work if the key switch has been turned off. WHAT NEXT? My next challenge will be to fit an ES001 on a Mercedes Benz 312 Sprinter. Despite this vehicle having a “fly by wire” accelerator systemDavid feeding the engine management ECU unit it still has an accelerator pedal with a cable that pulls a lever on a potentiometer mounted in the engine compartment This diesel vehicle also has a tacho so I expect to find a pulse output from the alternator. I will let you know how I get on. My own notes for the Astra are herewith:- ACTUATOR This was mounted to the bulk head with a locally made bent plate and is off centre towards the near side of the vehicle, . Two holes were drilled into the bulk head after the plastic pollen filter cover was removed to provide access. This cover was replaced afterwards. The vehicles existing accelerator cable sheath abutment was removed and an additional plate welded to it to enable the cruise control cable sheath to be fixed alongside the pedal cable. DIESEL PUMP The existing actuator has a plastic identifying label which was removed to reveal a 5mm hole in the actuating arm. An additional arm was fashioned from 20X20X3mm angle and formed to rise over the existing pedal cable end and provide a fixing for the cruise cable inner, outboard of the manual cable. Most of the angle was cut away from this shaped new actuator but sufficient angle remained to run alongside the original actuator so that when fixed with a single 5mm bolt and nylock nut was securely located and fixed. A small amount of the plastic fan cowling was filed away to ensure that the cruise cable had sufficient clearance to allow for engine movement. The cruise control cable followed a smooth natural curve and was secured by cable ties where it naturally positioned itself. PULSE PICK UP Although this van does not have a tachometer the alternator and engine compartment wiring was provisioned for one as it is fitted in the car and estate versions of the vehicle. The Alternator has one thick cable to battery positive. Two other small wires leave the alternator and join to the vehicles harness with a 2 way connector which is fixed above the cam box near the bulkhead at the drivers side. Wire colours are GREEN/WHITE To Ign warning light and GREEN/BROWN to tacho. An oscilloscope confirmed that rectangular pulses of 15 volt amplitude and with frequency varying with speed were on the GREEN/BROWN wire. The inner of the cruise control coax was connected with Scotchlock to the green/brown wire. The Screen was insulated and secured safely. - 4 - MY NOTES on cruise harness connections herewith:-. Coax Inner BLUE Sensor coil or pulse input. Coax Screen BLACK coil neg. (Cut back & insulated on Astra) ORANGE Fused battery positive via key switch. GREEN Chassis negative BROWN Foot brake switch terminal 1. BROWN/WHITE Foot brake switch terminal 2 YELLOW Ignition coil neg (points) if manual petrol. (Not used on Astra) VIOLET Inhibit. (Ground to inhibit) (Not used on Astra) 4 core Green, Blue, Pink, Black to stepper motor / actuator. (Fill connector with silicon grease to keep out the water.) 4 core to command module Green, Yellow, Red & Brown. (Take care with ribbon on sharp edges under dash.) BIT SWITCH SETTINGS that provided good smooth control in 5th & 4th a small overshoot in third and lumpy control in second gear down to 15 MPH were :- (1=on. 0=off). In first gear the overshoot was such that the cruise control would disengage. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 With these settings and without a clutch switch fitted the engine revs would only increase slightly before the control disengaged when the clutch was depressed whilst cruising. I found the staff of Ultimate Design very helpful and their product performs as they claim. I hope this information will be of use to you. And yes, the Autotrail Scout was the next to have one fitted, my first job on getting it home. Go 4 it

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Modern vehicle cruise-controls fall into 2 categories - those fitted as original equipment by the vehicle manufacturers and retrofit 'kits'. Control of speed in the former case will involve the vehicle's engine-management system and, in the latter case, will entail cable-operation of the 'throttle' (normally by pulling on the accelerator pedal). This throttle actuation can be either by a vacuum mechanism or (more commonly now I believe) by an electronic unit. I'm not aware of any future retrofit cruise-control kits that will exploit a vehicle's ECU: it seems unlikely to me these would be marketable because of the consequential warranty, safety and product liability implications. (However, I'm not omniscient and I've been wrong before!) I suggest you discuss your requirements with Conrad Anderson (advert in MMM) as this company is almost certainly the most experienced in the UK when it comes to cruise-control applications (not just on motorhomes but generally). There are, in fact, 2 possible ways to approach adding cruise-control. If it's offered as an option by the manufacturer of your motorhome's base-vehicle, there's a sporting chance that most of the 'gubbins' will already be present and only a few relatively inexpensive extra bits (like a control wand and cabling) will be needed to obtain an operational system. I believe this is the situation with Iveco-based motorhomes and current ABS-equipped Mercedes Sprinters. Whether the extra bits are obtainable may be something else entirely - Conrad Anderson told me certain VW T4s had near-complete cruise systems as standard but Volkswagen refused to supply the additional parts needed, even to their own main dealers. I'm doubtful that cruise-control components are pre-installed as standard on Fiat chassis, but CA will be able to tell you. If a complete retrofit system is required, then the overall cost will depend on the difficulty of the task and the sophistication of the equipment (see CA website for guide prices). Frankly, if I owned your particular motorhome, I would be a mite wary of fitting cruise-control to it, purely because of its engine output. Fiat's 2 litre JTD motor has just 85bhp and 193Nm of torque and that's not a lot of oomph to drag around a near-19-foot coachbuilt motorcaravan with an empty weight of at least 2600kg. (You may well find your new car is less than half your 'van's weight and has a more powerful motor). If you find your Tracker currently struggles in 5th gear when faced with motorway inclines (or strong headwinds) and requires regular down-changes to maintain satisfactory progress (which a cruise-control device won't do for you), then it may be unproductive to retrofit cruise. For the same reason (shortage of motor output) I would also think twice before opting for the "Eagle" device BillD mentions (Sorry Bill!) as, to provide a 'cruise' capability, this relies on the vehicle's engine being sufficiently torquey to remain in top gear and maintain acceptable progress on long slopes. Your choice of course and the Eagle will certainly work OK as a modern day hand-throttle with a safety cut-out. I'm ambivalent about cruise-control. If I were buying a new motorhome and it was a factory option and relatively cheap (say £300 or less), I'd opt for it as an entertaining gizmo. But if it were much dearer I wouldn't bother and I wouldn't retrofit it. This is mainly because I invariably fiddle about with the accelerator-pedal on my vehicles (increase its surface-area, adjust its return-spring tension, etc.) and modify the floor height (packing under the carpet, extra mats), with the end result that I find I can drive long distances without right ankle/leg discomfort (though my poor old damaged back's quite another matter!) The second disincentive is that, during the 30k or so miles of driving I did in our Herald, only very rarely (usually on a deserted French autoroute) did I say to myself " I wouldn't mind having cruise-control now", and I've never found any inclination to have my foot off the accelerator on our congested UK roads. This is a personal thing of course - if you've got a game leg or a dicky ankle, or (like truckers) drive huge distances on motorways, then cruise-control may well be a godsend.

[Guest Clive]

This is where I totally disagree with Derek. Nowadays neither I or my wife could drive any vehicle any decent distance without cruise control. I even use mine to control to 30 or 40 MPH where speed limits apply. But I do agree with Derek that if a factory fitted option is available then go for that choice first. Today all modern vehicles are "fly by wire" The Cruise control option only costs the control stalk, everything else is already in place. Its your choice! Good luck

[Guest Paul]

I also totally disagree with Derek, it is the one gadget I would not want to be without. I have used electronic cruise control for 18 years whilst touring with different vehicles (the same one swapped to four different vehicles) and it was only when installing on to my current m/home that the electronic brain failed and I had to buy a new kit, purely because the old electronics were nearly as dear to replace as a complete new kit. They takes the strain of continuous cruising away by maintaining constant speed without having to check, leaving you to concentrate on the other more important issues with driving. Overall it is less tiring. Yes the low power of your vehicle may be an issue but electronic controls are designed to cut off automatically when changing gear and if the speeds of engines or road are too far out of sync, so I do not see a problem. It comes into its own on long boring flat road, as abroad, so that would be the time when your vehicle(if it is as underpowered as Derek suggests) would be at its best performance. I also beleive they assist with the economy of the vehicle and will, to some extent pay for themselves over the ownership period.

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Clive/Paul: Each to their own. While fully accepting the validity of your arguments I still shan't retrofit cruise-control to any new vehicle we may buy. My experience is that I, personally, don't need it and, nowadays, I try not to spend cash on things I don't need. It's as simple as that. Clive: I believe you have over-generalised the relationship of fly-by-wire throttles (fbwt) and cruise-control. Although the current vehicles on which motorhomes are based may all have fbwt that doesn't mean they will all have cruise-control as a factory option (eg Ford Transits don't) nor, if cruise is an option, that most of the basic components will be in place even if the cruise option has not been specified. As I said, with current Mercedes Sprinters, before you can have cruise as a factory option, the vehicle's specification must include ABS/ASR (itself normally a factory option). I'm guessing that this is because the latest Mercedes cruise system maintains a steady speed by not only controlling the throttle but also by applying the brakes on down-slopes. Michael: I'm not attempting to dissuade you from retrofitting cruise to your Tracker, but shortage of engine-power as a potential limitation to cruise's effectiveness is something to bear in mind before going ahead with the plan. If you do fit it, please let us know how you get on with it.

[Guest William R Dunstone]

Hi, Derek, of course is entitled to his opinion and to spend his money as he sees fit. However, I think the engine power thing is a bit of a red herring. There are lots of times, especially on motorways in this country and on many roads in Europe when one can be driving for hours (if you want to) with hardly a movement of the right foot. It is very good to reduce the risk of DVT (and I have had it twice!) to be able to take your foot off and do a little dance with it. It also reduces the risk of cramp and boredom. I do not know what Derek wants to do in terms of engine power, I can cruise happily at the speeds I want and can even change down without disconnecting the throttle control! I am not looking for boy racer performance. BillD

[Guest Mike Chapman]

If by retro-fit you mean the official Fiat version, this is not available on the Ducato 2.0L JTD and Fiat will not supply it for retro fit on the 2.3 and 2.8 engines. It is only available when ordered for factory fit on a new vehicle. With Volkswagen T4, T5 (and most of their cars) the electronics are already in place because Cruise is a factory fit option. A VW dealer can obtain the additional parts (part wiring loom and the column mounted control) and retro fit. All that is required electronically is to reprogram the ECU. Have had this done successfully twice on VW vehicles but some dealers say that retro fit is not allowed by VW. Fitting electronic cruise control could invalidate your vehicle warranty, best to check with the manufacturer first. Personally I think that Cruise works best with Automatic Transmission and can be a bit of a pain on a lower powered vehicle if gear changes are constantly required, especially if the Cruise disconnects on declutching. Bill D, The medical advice is NOT to drive for extended long periods but to stop and have some exercise on a regular basis. DVT can also be caused by constant pressure on the nether regions. Regards, Mike Chapman

[Guest William R Dunstone]

Thanks Mike, I don't normally drive for more than a couple of hours at a time - what's the rush? I agree I am probably more at risk sitting at this computer. BillD

[Guest Doug]

I'm coming in late here but as a matter of interest I had cruise control fitted by Conrad anderson on a Autu-Trail Tracker with the 2.0 JTD. I found it very usefull especially in France and as I'm never in a hurry I had no problems. As Derek said with the lack of power you can run out of puff on long hills but you have to remember, YOU are the driver not the cruise control,but if you do not notice the drop in speed then the unit will switch out when the speed drops by about 10% of the set speed so it reminds you to change down and pay more attention.It also helps to be able to wrigle ones right foot about to stop it freezing solid in the well ventilated cab area of a Ducato, especially in winter when the heater never has any effect on your right foot.

[spartan]

I am also coming in late but i have cruise control fitted by Conrad Anderson and what a neat job they do. I drive all the time on Motorways and Auto routes with it. i use the presets to overtake lorries wouldnt do without it. Driving made easy.

[Dave Newell]

Hi all, Cruise control is a godsend, it allows you to rest your right leg/foot on journeys, it can be used to prevent accidental speeding and thereby reduce the risk of fines and points and it is very reliable. After market systems can be transferred to your next vehicle and the latest addition to the after market range is a stalk control with three memory buttons built in that can be programmed to speeds of your choice (30,40,50 MPH for example). The latest system (as mentioned above) is perfectly suitable for your Tracker Michael. Derek, I respect your personal preference to not retro fit cruise control, that is your choice. I would say though that many people find it to be a valuable driver aid. Clive, manufacturers own cruise control is not yet availabe on all base vehicles and out of those that do offer it only a few can be retro fitted, Mercedes Sprinter for one but not all Merc agents know how. The electric throttle actuator is not new, it's been around for about as long as vacuum units and the vacuum unit is perfectly good for most vehicles. The only current motorhome base vehicle i use electric actuators on is the current transit (from 2003) because the pedal assembly requires a short throw connection which isn't suitable for the vacuum unit. There is absolutely no need to use electric actuators (at additional cost of around 60) on Fiat, Peugeot, Citroen, Merc, VW T4/T5, renault Master/traffic or transit (pre 2003) the vacuum unit works perfectly well and is totally reliable. contrary to what some people may tell you the vacuum unit does not invalidate your manufacturers warranty. Totally electronic units are now available but are significantly more expensive plus, as they do integrate with the engne management ECU, there MAY be a warranty issue. For further information have a look at www.davenewell.co.uk or have a look at Mike's Motorcarravanning Month November 2005. D.

[Dave Newell]

I also meant to add that engine power has absolutely no bearing on the useability of cruise control. I've fitted it to all sorts of motors from a Cinquecento (spelling?) to a 7.5 Tonne truck (next week I'm doing one on a 41 foot furniture lorry), I even have one on my Bedford Rascal work van and it's great although it's difficult to find a place for my foot without touching the throttle (small footwell and size 12 feet). the 2.0 litre JTD is perfectly adequate for a small motorhome and cruise control will still give you an awful lot of comfort. D.

[spartan]

I have the vacum unit fitted but i found on some hills the cruise would dis-engage not a bad thing as it protects the engine. But i have found when using a fuelling chip the cruise works alot better due to the increased power. I have one fault with the stalk system i cant see the indicator light to see if its on as its hidden by the steering wheel. I agree the vacum system is good enough for what you want , ok it has a slight delay on pick up but only one moving part and cheaper to buy. Pete

[Dave Newell]

Hi Spartan, If you're cruise has a slight delay on picking up the throttle then it might need re-calibrating. Ideally it should pick the throttle up virtually instantly but without surging forward. The dropping out on hills shouldn't be caused by the fact it's vacuum operated. The cruise unit should be capable of flooring the throttle completely. If the hill is steeper than the engine can manage to maintain speed on, even at full throttle, then the cruise should drop out when the speed drops by around 15%. This is to prootect against full throttle and labouring engine conditions. D.

[david lloyd]

Dave Newell/Clive/Derek I have a new Renault Master and would like, at some point in the future, to fit cruise control. Are we saying that if there is a factory fit unit available from \Renault then this is the best option as I have had my eye on the one supplied by Dave Newell (sorry Dave, tried to locate you at Lincoln to discuss pros and cons but failed miserably) but not sure about the warranty issue so may have to wait. Regards, david

[Don Madge]

[QUOTE]david lloyd - 2006-07-22 1:11 PM Dave Newell/Clive/Derek I have a new Renault Master and would like, at some point in the future, to fit cruise control. Are we saying that if there is a factory fit unit available from \Renault then this is the best option as I have had my eye on the one supplied by Dave Newell (sorry Dave, tried to locate you at Lincoln to discuss pros and cons but failed miserably) but not sure about the warranty issue so may have to wait. Regards, david[/QUOTE] David, I think you might find the Renault CC is only available as an option when the vehicle is ordered from new. That's how it worked when we bought the Timberland. I've had both Factory fitted and retro fitted and both work very well. I can't manage without a CC these days. I really wanted an automatic but they only come in LHD and Timberland would only build on the RHD. Don

[Dave Newell]

Hi David, Factory fitted cruise control is available for the Renault Master but I'm pretty sure it's a production line option only i.e. not available as retro fit. There should be no warranty issue but it's best to check with your dealer/Renault agent. Funnily enough I had a call this morning from a chap with a new Traffic. He had enquired after factory cruise but was told it wasn't an option, he then asked about warranty issues if he had a third party cruise fitted. Their reply was that as long as it doesn't alter any wiring looms it would be ok. I should be speaking to the dealer in question soon about this to clarify it but I think they mean as long as the original wiring is still connected as it was in the factory that will be ok but if anything gets connected in between harnesses/ECUs as is the case with the fully electronic systems and some chip upgrade kits then this would void the manufacturers warranty. Sorry you missed me at Lincoln, I don't have a stand at the shows just yet (maybe next year) but I do a few pre arranged fittings at most of the shows. The systems I use (the same as CA) are eminently suitable for the new Master although the fitting is slightly more involved than on a Fiat or Merc for example, still no problem though. D.

[enrico]

Having worked with Renault please take one word of warning.Whoever tells you that you can fit any item without jeopardising the warranty ensure you get it in black and white on either Renault letter headed paper or the dealers headed paper. If you do this,and then theres some comeback you then have the evidence so its then upto whoever supplied the paper. Don`t ever believe a manufacturer or a dealer,they can easily renague on it. Yours very kindly "SCEPTICAL". B-) B-) B-)

[Dave Newell]

Thanks Enrico, I'll bear that in mind for future. There is no sensible reason why a third party cruise control should invalidate the manufacturers warranty as any subsequent fault should be easily identifiable as caused, or not, by the after market kit or it's fitment. I have heard of one Citroen van conversion owner who was told by his Citroen dealer that even replacing the radio would invalidate his warranty. Strange that they were happy enough to honour the warranty after conversion to a camper by a third party company though................. Go figure... as the Yanks say. D.

[docted]

Which is it Enrico or Sceptical? (lol)

[spartan]

Dave Is it a simple job to recalibrate or should i just leave well alone, its not bad just a few seconds. I suppose i could fit an extra led in a prominent position off the stem wiring to show it was on. Pete