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gadjo

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Having just read another thread I'm a bit confussed (easily done I know) my Mh has an unladen weight of 3255kg max weight 4000kg acording to the brochure. As I understand it am I restircted to 50mph on A roads and 60mph on motorways??? Does this then mean I am not allowed in the outside lanes on motorways as well.

 

To be honest I dont go much above 60 but i would hate to be caught out *-)

 

cheers

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trooper - 2008-12-03 5:14 PM Hi not sure but believe its 50 single carrageway, 60 dual and 70 motorway, I tend to treat mine as a car so I dont hold up other traffic on clear roads, who knows my wieght?.

The plod will presume you to know it, and drive accordingly, so the implication of your post may prove a little unwise!

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Hi Gadjo,

 

I have been reading this up recently as I also was worried our MH was restricted to 60/50mph.

If your UNLADEN weight is over 3050kg then, irrespective of your GVW, you are restricted to 60mph on Dual Carriageway and 50mph on Single carriageway roads.

As Brian says it will be up to you to prove the weight of your vehicle if you exceed your limit.

 

Try looking at the following link for clarification.

 

www.motorhomeinfo.co.uk/Motorhomes_and_the_Law/speed_limits.xalter

 

Keith.

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And that is the whole point Keith - how on earth do you prove to Mr Plod or the courts that your miro is under 3050 kg when neither the V5 or the vehicle plate does not say what the miro weight is?

 

Would they accept a weighbridge certificate which may or may not be months or even years old and is just as capable of being 'manipulated' to obtain a specific weight as the current batch of totally unrealistic car fuel consumption and CO2 figures are?

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Hi Gadjo -

 

As Keith says, the law in the UK is clear: if your Unladen Weight is above 2050kgs, then the maximum speed limits are (unless a lower limit is in force, eg 30 mph limit in towns etc):

 

Motorway, 70mph.

Dual Carriageway, 60mph.

Other, single carriageway roads, 50 mph.

 

The tricky bit, as you'll have seen from the other threads running here at the moment and in the past, as accurately assessing, at any given time, what exactly your Motorhome Unladed Weight (also known as MIRO wieght...mass in running order) actually is, with all your welded on/bolted on extras added in.

'Cos pound to a penny it's NOT gonna be whatever estimated number that the Manufaturer/Converter said in their brochure....it's in all probability gonna be significantly above that.

 

Perhaps once solution might be to take a piccie or few of your MH whilst it's on the weighbridge, showing all the fixed extras in place, and get someone there to counter sign and date them, or some accompanying list of what was on that date fitted in/welded to the MH.

Attach your dated weighbridge certificate to those documents/photos... then maybe, if your Unladen weight on that date was below the 3050kgs limit, you should be in the clear ('cos you've still got a bit of "fat" in that number as you've not deducted fuel/water/loose tools/spare wheel/loose contents) from the real Unladen Weight number.

A pain in the bum to do all this, but it might perhaps save you from a conviction and points if you get a pull from Plod for speeding in the future.

 

If your real, actual, weighbridge weight is over the 3050kgs by more than a few kilos (maybe 20 or more?), you're clearly in very dodgy territory on speed limits. :-(

 

 

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Just to muddy the waters, I think the term used is "unladen weight", and not MIRO.  One is, therefore entitled to assume it is different, or else, in drafting the legislation, why did they not refer to MIRO? 

The cherry on the cake, again from memory, is that there is no formal definition of "unladen weight" in the legislation, or elsewhere.  Therefore, it can be what you want it to be - so long as it isn't the same as MIRO, for which there is, I believe, a legal definition - and your interpretation is sensible and reasonable.

I would expect it to be something like the vehicle in ready for the road trim, complete with all tools and spares, all lubricants and essentials, and a full fuel tank, but with no loose equipment or "life support" (gas cylinders, fresh or waste water etc i.e. the load) in the habitation part - but that's just me!

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30 - standard road

 

50 - single carriageway

 

60 - Dual carriageway with physical barrier

 

70 - Motorway

 

That is what it is best to stick to, some say less but that is what is in the highway code, and what i recommend hirers to drive to for your vehicles weight band.

 

It still gets confusing though, as DfT state that it is based on your maximum weight regardless of weather you are fully, partially loaded or empty.

 

The details I was sent reduced at 3.5t to lorry weights. BUT the highway code reduces at 7.5t. So i think that is another one of our governments big grey areas!

 

Stick to the limits above and leave it at that! You will be very unlucky to find someone that will argue the toss - and a tip for you - IF you are in that situation.....

 

......politely asked the officer to send for the Road Traffic Act. He is obliged by law to send someone out wiuth it, and wait whilst you read it until you are happy with the situation. He HAS TO COMPLY, but will probably send you on your way!

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Rainbow-Chasers' - 2008-12-04 12:11 AM

 

......politely asked the officer to send for the Road Traffic Act. He is obliged by law to send someone out wiuth it, and wait whilst you read it until you are happy with the situation. He HAS TO COMPLY, but will probably send you on your way!

 

Not heard that one before RC. Can you give us chapter and verse about his/her obligation to show you the actual Act at the roadside?

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Brian Kirby - 2008-12-03 11:47 PM

Just to muddy the waters, I think the term used is "unladen weight", and not MIRO.  One is, therefore entitled to assume it is different, or else, in drafting the legislation, why did they not refer to MIRO? 

The cherry on the cake, again from memory, is that there is no formal definition of "unladen weight" in the legislation, or elsewhere.  Therefore, it can be what you want it to be - so long as it isn't the same as MIRO, for which there is, I believe, a legal definition - and your interpretation is sensible and reasonable.

I would expect it to be something like the vehicle in ready for the road trim, complete with all tools and spares, all lubricants and essentials, and a full fuel tank, but with no loose equipment or "life support" (gas cylinders, fresh or waste water etc i.e. the load) in the habitation part - but that's just me!

Hi Brian - I did a quick researchy thingy this morning; there seems to be good news and bad news on this definition of "unladen weight" milarky:Sort of good news: I asked a legal beagle mate, and yes, there is an exact legal definition of "unladen weight" in English parliamentary legislation.It is defined in section 3 (2) of the Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986.Statutory Instrument 1986/1078, published 13/12/1985.ISBN 13 9780110670782.All subsequent regulations have referred back to the definition of "unlden weight" as being that as defined in the above 1986 Regulations.But he hasn't got a copy of the actual regs document in his office, and he ain't allowed to copy the Sweet & Maxwell version (that's the sort of UK law bible)Now the bad news: free, on-line versions of actual UK legislation and regulation documents (via OPSI, which has replaced the old HMSO) only go back as far as 1987.Incidentally OPSI is an ace site for anyone who wants to get hold of original law/regulations for free, on line; but only for stuff enacted from 1987 onwardsThe actual 1986 Construction & Use Regs document is available in print, (184 pages!) from WH Smith, at £15.65......but only for anyone who is desperate to read summat to send them to sleep!So, does anyone have a copy of the actual 1986 C & U regs knocking around perchance?If so, can they scan and let us have a gander at section 3(2), pretty please.....
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Mea culpa, my mistake!  I was confusing two things in my memory.  You are, of course right, there is a definition of unladen weight, and how it is to be calculated.  My confusion, for which I apologise, was that the ULW is not plated, or stated, on the vehicle itself, and is not (generally) stated in the V5 (logbook).  Indeed, the V5 for our van, which presumably satisfies DVLA, who issued it, doesn't even state its MAM!

However, back to ULW.  There is no official confirmation of ULW in the vehicle documentation.  It is not stated, nor is it required to be stated, anywhere on the vehicle.  It is variable, depending on weather, and fitted accessories, so will not be consistent across all similar vehicles.  There is no statutory requirement on the driver to have his vehicle weighed.  Therefore, neither the owner, nor the police, can be expected to know its value. 

In the case of MAM, however, this is plated onto the vehicle, and loading beyond this limit is a statutory offence. 

It therefore seems to me that what has happened in this case is that the police officer has presumed to know the weight of the vehicle (doubtless he would say he had reasonable grounds for suspecting, and was not satisfied by the driver's assurances, etc etc).  In issuing the ticket, he seems to be expecting the driver to pay up, or prove his innocence.  However, unless the officer is a member of the anti-terrorist squad - whose terms of engagement do seem a bit special, I had thought that under UK law it was for the accuser to prove the guilt of the accused, and not contrariwise.

Whatever, I still think it will be wise to take the unladen van to a weighbridge and get it weighed.  You will normally get a timed and dated ticket with the vehicle reg no also clearly stated.  It may not give proof positive, but it will transfer the onus onto the police, to show how/why it is wrong, or it will prove them right.  Then, if relevant, take the weighbridge ticket, and the speed limit information, along with the speeding ticket, to the police before the summons arrives, and ask for the ticket to be withdrawn.

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Okay - this may help clear some of the mud from the waters.

 

Through a Police contact back in the UK I've now managed to get hold of the exact wording of Section 3 (2) of the Road Vehicle (Construction & Use) regulations 1986 that I was talking about in my previous posts.

 

 

 

 

This is the definitive legal definition of "unladen weight" for the purposes of those, and all subsequent road and traffic regulations, including speed limits which are unladen-weight-dependent:

 

"UNLADEN WEIGHT

The weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the

heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are

necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on

a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for

the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as

the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose

tools and loose equipment."

 

 

 

 

My contact agrees with my surmise that this legal "unladen weight" definition means in practice for us motorhomers: the actual weight of your individual vehicle, including all welded-on or bolted-on or screwed on parts and accessories, but excluding all loose items and all fresh/waste/black water (except that in the vehicles own cooling system); and also excluding any deisel/petrol.

 

This may not help anyone at the side of the road trying to argue with Plod that their individual unladen weight is below the magic 3050kgs; but it may help people who want to establish their own motorhomes legally defined Unladen Weight at a weigbridge.

 

 

 

 

 

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Excellent Bruce, thanks.  Now all we have to work out is how to get the van to a weighbridge with no fuel on board!  Gets easier by the minute, don't it?

For anyone really, really, wanting to bring this to the best figure, fill the fuel tank and then immediately go to the weighbridge.  From the ticket weight, deduct the weight of a full tank at 0.85Kg per litre, for diesel, less a few litres consumed en route.  You do all know how many litres your fuel tanks hold, and your approximate mileage per litre, don't you?  :-)

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I have been following this thread and the one started by Carol and have decided that as I usually drive at about 50 on a single carriageway (most in my area are too dangerously unlevel to exceed this anyway) and usually 60 on a dual carriageway (and I don't normally drive much faster than this on a motorway either) that I am going to continue at these speeds. I really cannot face emptying out all the bits and pieces and then putting them back in again just for the sake of a few miles per hour. I am not usually in such a hurry to get anywhere anyway.

 

Having said that I am grateful for everyone putting forward their ideas as I genuinely thought that should I decide to drive at 70, 60 and 50 that I was legally entitled to do so.

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