Can stinginess become an illness?

[RupertGS]

One thing that I've noticed since joining this forum is how some people seem inordinately stingy. You know the kind of thing - driving around for an hour and parking by the gasworks rather than spend a tenner on a safe and pleasant campsite. I found it a bit of a culture shock as none of my friends are in this mould and whilst no one likes to totally waste money there are degrees of meanness and I've been surprised at just how mean a few people can be.

What prompted this thought are two stories that I've read in the paper in the last two days. The first was a magistrate and his wife (she is a lecturer) who have just received a six-month suspended jail sentence and had their lives totally ruined. He's resigned as a magistrate and they face losing their jobs. Their crime? She drove through a speed camera and faced with a £60 fine they changed the appearance of their car and claimed that the car photographed by the speed camera must have been a cloned version of their car. All this to save £60!

The second and most horrific is the man in Lincolnshire who tried to service and repair his Land Rover himself, despite being unqualified. He braked hard and the car slewed to the right as his brake calipers and other things were all wrong. The car drove into a river and four of his seven children died.

I really believe that the constant drip of consumerism and the whole ethos that we must always buy everything at the cheapest possible price is badly affecting certain sections of our society and that they end up doing the most stupid things in order to save a few pounds.

I well remember one contributor to this forum asking how to reclaim the duty paid if they bought LPG gas from a garage but only used it for cooking. It turns out that it has an extra tax on it when sold as motor fuel. Another of our more technical and intelligent contributors pointed out that they were talking about a sum of perhaps less than a couple of pounds in a year, to which they replied: "It doesn't matter how small it is, we've always had a policy of looking after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves."

I have to say that, to fill in a form and send it to a government agency, for a sum of less than two pounds, epitomises the point that I'm trying to make, which is, that, when your stingyness gets to those levels, it's more than stinginess, it's an illness. An illness also exemplified by our magistrate and his wife!

So do others think that this kind of penny-pinching can become an obsession? There's certainly plenty of evidence of it on this forum, although to be clear, it is a minority, I'm not saying that you're all like that!

[howie]

Having read that report of the magistrate (and the landrover) I have to agree. For the sake of a speeding fine and a few points on her licence he has lost his position as a magistrate, his reputation, and possibly both their jobs.

The incident with the landrover seems to have come about due to the owners unqualified work on the brakes and modifications to the bodywork that made it almost impossible for the children to escape when it went into that river.

Both cases can only be classed as gross and criminal stupidity, and sadly its only after the event that both parties can now reflect on their actions.

As for miserly campers, this does NOT apply to any individuals on these forums, but it does seem strange that tens of thousands of pounds can be spent on a motorhome, then all put at risk by saving a few pounds by parking up offsite or looking for free facilities.

There are those of course who genuinely seek the solitude that 'wild camping' provides, and those I would exclude from any sort of criticism.

Not a illness stinginess, but certainly an obsession with some I know, and while I have spent £30k for previous motorhomes still watch those pennies and expect value for money.

 

[Syd]

Hi RupertGS

I understand what you mean, it is just such a policy that see's all of the small shops in one's neighbourhood closeing down.

Here in my locality we have recently lost our local Quicksave, everyone was moaning about it closing but they all travelled some five miles to buy their shopping from Asda before it closed down.

How shallow is that

 

Diesel is a tenth of a one pence cheaper at such and such, so what, who cares, we need diesel regardless of price so just get the stuff and be done with it.

 

£30,000/£40,000 on a vehicle and then quibble over a few pence for anything else ? doesn't make any sense to me, the stress of it all would drive me mad.

 

[nightrider]

I started a string asking how could I murder a friend of mine in the most painful way, that string was prompted by his unbelievable tightfistedness, for example.... he owns a 24' motorhome bought from new, he wont go on a site, saying why should I spend money on site fee's, he stays on laybys, he wont turn on his gas heating when it gets chilly, he wont turn on his heating at home, he built a big pond in his garden but wont turn on the pond pump, he wont buy newspapers but reads the papers that his girlfriend bought the previous day.

He bought the bungalow next door with the intention of renovating it to sell on at a profit, the bungalow was on the market for 5 years because he would not reduce the price he put on it, one bungalow had a water meter but the other one didnt, he used to have a bath in the one without a water meter, he ran a temporary gas, water, and electric line from one bungalow to the other to avoid paying one lot of standing charges, every now and again he would move from one bungalow to the other to avoid paying full community charge.

When he and his girlfriend go out in his M/H he goes out on a monday afternoon and is back on friday afternoon, he never misses a trick he is constantly saving pennies, it is sickening to see how tight he is, the straw that broke the camels back for me was last week when I changed my van, I need two 7 kilo butane bottles, he had two that had been in his garden for the last 8 years, they were totally useless to him as he was on propane, I asked what he was doing with them and he said I could have them for £20 I called him a few choice words and reminded him that the bottles had cost him nothing as he had been given them by a neighbour who had given up the camping game.

I could understand if he wanted solitude and privacy by wild camping and not going on sites, but to spend your time on a layby??? to avoid paying site fee's is beyond me.

[LordThornber]

What a corking good thread this is, right up my street.

 

My neighbour is surely a classic victim of, as Rupert puts it, the illness.

 

Of course I don't know, (nor want to), the state of his finances, but he takes 3-4 holidays abroad per year. I can only assume that in order to finance said holidays, he lives like this..

 

He drives a car that is falling apart

 

His house is dropping to bits

 

He has no heating in the house other than 1 gas fire, which never appears to be on, (these are big pre war semis)

 

The house is completely single glazed

 

He never employs a tradesperson

 

He's no DIY er

 

His shopping appears to come entirely from Iceland stores

 

Now before anyone barks on about, "I wouldn't like to be your neighbour/nosey git etc", I'd like to add that we have been neighbours for over 25 years and regularly help each other out, indeed we've just took care of his pets & fish while he's been away.

 

I concur with Knight of the road too, I mean, kipping in a layby?? To save, what, a tenner? On the odd occasion that we've been left with little choice but to use a layby, we've had little or no proper sleep and a hugely discomforting feeling of being unsafe. What's the point of living like that? In my humble opinion, I'd stay at home first, after all, where is the pleasure in that? But of course there isn't any is there?

 

The pleasure is derived from saving the tenner.

 

Ann that's an illness..

 

Martyn (just going for tin hat) :D

[Tony Jones]

Malcolm ("Knight"):

 

The most foolproof way to murder this guy would probably to point out to him how much money he'd save by servicing his MH himself (as per the landrover), and also by taking that electricity supply straight from a lamp-post rather than from his other bungalow. >:-)

Trouble is, others would suffer too, so not such a good idea then :-(

 

I agree with most of Rupert's original post here. Someone needs to tell some folk that there are no pockets in shrouds!

 

As for laybys, etc, it all depends what kind of holiday you're having. If I want a base to stay for a while, I either look for somewhere genuinely wild to enjoy the tranquillity etc, or a pleasant campsite. But if (as is usually the case) my holiday is all about visiting different places and I just need a place to sleep in between them, then £20 saved on a site is £20 more to spend during the daytime - NOT £20 more to keep in the bank! :-D

We ALWAYS spend the whole of our holiday budget one way or another, and usually tap the credit card a little as well - thus doing our bit to get Britain (and France) out of recession.

 

Tony

[LordThornber]

Tony, you say it depends on what kind of holiday you're having and I hear what you're saying. However..

 

How would you describe a "holiday" that consists of X number of nights, (or all of them for that matter), spent in laybys?

 

Sorry but holiday isn't an adjective I would apply, in fact for once I'm lost for a word.

 

Martyn

[nightrider]

The reluctance to spend money is a desease that get worse as the years go by, it is not prudent money management. My mate has all the laybys that he stays on marked down on a map, so that tells me me is constantly going over old ground. My wife said to me, no way am I spending my holiday on a layby no matter where or nice.

Wild camping in secluded places I can accept, my mate tries to park up in small towns or villages with limited parking, use the park and ride?? no way, it would cost a couple of quid, he once accused Shrewsbury of being rubbish because he could not find anywhere to park his 24' M/H, even his girlfriend says he is tight fisted and she freezes in the M/H when the evenings chill off.

Neither he or his woman friend have been married or got kids or any ties, he has a van that is capable of going out for months at a time but he never goes out for more than 4 or 5 days at a time, why? because he either runs out of power or water, sight seeing or visiting places of interest, according to him when you have seen one museum or castle you have seen them all plus it costs money to visit them.

I asked him why he did not use sites his answer was that you get your feet wet in the grass? I use sites because I like the banter between campers on a nice evening when chilling out or when having a natter either in the shower block or at the dishwashing room, my mate does not have the spirit of camping, he goes out dressed in his best bib and tucker, never will you see him in a pair of jeans and trainers.

And when he is doing a job around the house you will never see him dressed for work, overalls etc he dresses in hand me down clothes off his brothers in law, and the best thing is that the rubber wellingtons that he wears when it is raining let water in, to counteract that he wears plastic shopping bags on his feet!!!!!

 

I once knew a woman who told me that people who live on their own, like my mate develope a tendency to become selfish because they do not have anyone else to think about but themselves, they do not know how to share, what a way to live, and like an earlier post said, there are no pockets in shrouds.

[malc d]

LordThornber - 2008-12-10 8:48 AM

 

Tony, you say it depends on what kind of holiday you're having and I hear what you're saying. However..

 

How would you describe a "holiday" that consists of X number of nights, (or all of them for that matter), spent in laybys?

 

Sorry but holiday isn't an adjective I would apply, in fact for once I'm lost for a word.

 

Martyn

 

 

 

Staying in laybys sounds more like a hobby than a holiday.

;-)

 

 

[Rapido-lass]

We have used layby's - this is not because we want to save 'money', but infact 'time'. If you have a long distance to cover why book into a site where you have to waste time (ie the evening) which can get you further on your journey, especially when you can share the driving? We use the layby purely to sleep, arriving late and leaving early.

 

We are unfortunately not at the priveledge pensioner age where time is on your side. We can only dream of having time to slowly tour!

 

Having said that, it doesn't mean everyone's doing it for the same reason.

 

 

[malc d]

Rapido-lass - 2008-12-10 10:59 AM

 

We have used layby's - this is not because we want to save 'money', but infact 'time'. If you have a long distance to cover why book into a site where you have to waste time (ie the evening) which can get you further on your journey, especially when you can share the driving? We use the layby purely to sleep, arriving late and leaving early.

 

We are unfortunately not at the priveledge pensioner age where time is on your side. We can only dream of having time to slowly tour!

 

Having said that, it doesn't mean everyone's doing it for the same reason.

 

 

 

 

"Knight" was talking about someone who ONLY stays on laybys - never on a site.

Staying overnight on a layby on your way to a site sounds fairly normal to me.

 

:-|

 

 

[nightrider]

My mate has had a motor home a lot longer than I, when I bought my first campervan I was a total novice and I knew nothing of camp sites when I got more experienced and started using camp sites it was then that my mate told me that he never used them, his thoughts were why should he use camp sites when he had all the on-board facilities, the laybys that he uses are those that are shielded from the main road by a bank of tree's.

He wont use the motorway services because you have to pay for an overnight stop. I just cannot figure him out? he is not what I would describe as a kindred spirit, a member of the camping and caravanning fraternity, he can't be? he doesn't interact with fellow campers, who do you talk to while parked up in a layby? does he get his chairs out and sit in the layby staring at the mush of his woman?

If perhaps he and his woman have had a walk round a small town of quaint village I asked if he called into a little tea shoppe for a bit of refreshment and a sit down to chill out, he went white in the face and said why spend money when I have got all my eats in the van?

When I am out and about in my van one thing that I love is spending money and meeting people.

[Rapido-lass]

Sorry, seem to have gone off at the wrong tangent!!

 

I feel that his is not an illness more like an incurable disease.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Is not the answer to all this that we are all different, and have different incomes and expectations, yet we have diminished understanding of this simple fact?

All the world is queer, except for thee and me - and even thee's a little queer?

[RupertGS]

Brian Kirby - 2008-12-10 1:01 PM

Is not the answer to all this that we are all different, and have different incomes and expectations, yet we have diminished understanding of this simple fact?

All the world is queer, except for thee and me - and even thee's a little queer?

With respect, I'm not sure that you've grasped my point, which is, that it's absolutely nothing to do with one's income!

The people whose meanness and stinginess verges on obsession are often not short of money, as other contributors to this thread have pointed out.

You say "We're all different" well of course we are! But my my question is, does some people's attitude to spending (or not spending) verge on an unreasonable obsession?

So far, opinion seems to agree that it does. The person who refused to have his car properly serviced by experts ending up killing four of his children. The couple who were obsessive in their quest to save £60 have ruined their lives.

You're correct in that they are different. They are certainly different from me! But is their behaviour reasonable? You seem to imply that it is, because your view appears to be: "Come on folks, we're all different" as though that excuses what any reasonable person would consider extremely abberant behaviour.

I think that consumerism, the constant drip feed from the media that all that matters is the price, is affecting a growing number of people for whom stinginess is becoming a new religion. Regrettably, it can be a religion with devastating consequences.

[Mick H.]

Although I agree with Rupert GS on most points the first para needs clarifying.Do you mean people who drive around and will park anywhere just to avoid paying £10-00, in which case I agree with that. If you mean anybody who has all the facilities on board to live without the need of going into a campsite,paying £10-00 if you are lucky enough to find them that price anymore, purely to satisfy the purests and then have to be alongside other vans some with screaming kids,the occasional motorbike and the chatty people who get up VERY early to avoid the rush in the shower block, then I do not agree.motorhomes are made to be able to do what you like, within reason and not to have to be herded together like sheep.Some people do that, hence the little heap of vans in the top corner of most sites.I do not, but I do not consider that being stingy. End of sermon.

 

 

Mick

[LordThornber]

Just to put a bit more meat on the bones regarding my neighbour, he is in full employment and single, has sold paid for property and doesn't have any great social life that I know of.

 

For goodness sake, it's b****y freezing up here at the mo and when he gets home from work he dons his winter gear which includes a woolen hat.

 

But that's for sitting in his front room!! I'm not kidding you, honestly. What is the point of living your life like that? Surely diversity can't be a justifiable reason. Can it?

 

Martyn (crash helmet on)

[RupertGS]

Mick H. - 2008-12-10 2:06 PM Although I agree with Rupert GS on most points the first para needs clarifying.Do you mean people who drive around and will park anywhere just to avoid paying £10-00, in which case I agree with that. If you mean anybody who has all the facilities on board to live without the need of going into a campsite,paying £10-00 if you are lucky enough to find them that price anymore, purely to satisfy the purests and then have to be alongside other vans some with screaming kids,the occasional motorbike and the chatty people who get up VERY early to avoid the rush in the shower block, then I do not agree.motorhomes are made to be able to do what you like, within reason and not to have to be herded together like sheep.Some people do that, hence the little heap of vans in the top corner of most sites.I do not, but I do not consider that being stingy. End of sermon. Mick

Just to clarify - I stay on aires when travelling. Occasionally I'll wild camp when in the right kind of country, such as the Highlands of Scotland. However, if I really want to see a region, we'll try to find a nice site and use it as a base for cycling, walking and occasionally driving from.

The people I'm referring to are those who won't use a site at any price, not because they're adventurous types but because they'd rather stay in a layby than spend money.

One example. Last year one of our trips took us to the Atlantic coast of France, the Landes I think it's called. We found a most amazing municipal site that must be one of the nicest I've stayed on. It was quiet, spacious and overlooked the most beautiful lake. There was an island joined by a bridge and on the island was this lovely formal garden.

At the front of the site, on a main road, was a purpose-built motorhome aire, owned by the site. On the site itself, our pitch was quiet and away from the busy main road. The view was amazing and we had brilliant sanitary facilities, which saved us using our own.

There were, along with me, several other motorhomes on the site but the aire at the front was nearly full. You talk about being 'herded'. There they sat, six feet apart from each other, alongside a noisy road, no view and no facilities.

The site was about £12 and the aire was about £7, if memory serves. So for a saving of a fiver a night, these expensive motorhomes (and there were some beauties) forsook the quiet site, with few people on it, with its gorgeous location and wonderful views, for a virtual layby by a main road.

They're the kind of people to whom I refer and whom I simply cannot understand.

[Guest Tracker]

Not so much an illness Rupert - more an art form I reckon!

 

Such a shame that you see fit to decry every differing point of view to your own because I wondered that you may have started this thread to learn more about stinginess rather than an excuse to decry people who you perceive to be stingy?

 

The other side of this argument is of course - can being a spendthrift become an illness? There are people who spend so freely to solve every problem that they lose the ability to think through solutions for any problems for themselves. They seem to think that throwing money at an issue will solve everything and the traders of the UK just love them!

 

Absolute and extreme stinginess as illustrated in earlier threads is dangerous and stupid, but saving money through ingenuity and awareness is indeed an art form, and for some of us a very satisfying art form, that can be developed over the years.

 

It used to be called self reliance and was a positive virtue once upon a time!

 

Staying in lay bys for anything other than a quick en route kip is generally noisy, potentially dangerous and with so many other free and often beautiful places to stay using lay bys is rather unappealing.

 

There are two sides to any argument -one side not necessarily wrong - just different!

[Usinmyknaus]

Idly reading this thread made me check my spreadsheet for the van. We stay mainly on CLs in the UK, municipals on the Continent with the occasional aire when suitable. Cost per night has ranged from free (very rare) to £20.20 (very rare) but the average over 108 nights has been £9.52.

 

The gross cost per night has been a whopping £494.11 so the site fee is a tiny fraction of the whole.

 

As to the question, anyone stingy enough to make themselves ill over their penny-pinching had better steer clear of a rapidly depreciating, savings account emptying motorhome as to not do so would be terminal for them.

 

So by doing the exact opposite to the question in hand and instead shelling out wheelbarrow loads of dosh to buy into this wandering lifestyle, I have hugely lowered my stress levels and blood pressure, so I conclude that spending profligately can make you healthy! So long as it's spent on a motorhome - the fun cure for most ills of modern life.;-)

 

Bob :-)

[Brian Kirby]

RupertGS - 2008-12-10 1:27 PM

Brian Kirby - 2008-12-10 1:01 PM

Is not the answer to all this that we are all different, and have different incomes and expectations, yet we have diminished understanding of this simple fact?

All the world is queer, except for thee and me - and even thee's a little queer?

With respect, I'm not sure that you've grasped my point, which is, that it's absolutely nothing to do with one's income!

The people whose meanness and stinginess verges on obsession are often not short of money, as other contributors to this thread have pointed out.

You say "We're all different" well of course we are! But my my question is, does some people's attitude to spending (or not spending) verge on an unreasonable obsession?...............

But of course, Dear Boy, of course.  That is the point.  Some folk are obsessive, some downright mean (only the rich can qualify for this, for only they have the choice), some are feckless spendthrifts.  We don't have to condone or worry about them - unless and until they claim majority status and start trying to impose their values on us!  That was my point.  Live and let live.  Have an amused titter behind you hand by all means, but leave them to themselves.

After all, some of our greatest inventors have been obsessives!

[bob b]

I've worked with a couple of 'stingy' people over the years, and I have to say that I found it a very unattractive trait.

I couldn't have a stingy close friend I'm afraid.

[nightrider]

I like and enjoy spending money because I enjoy the things that money can buy, but I buy sensibly and I have my cut off point and then go out to work to replenish my wallet. Having said that I never leave myself short and my bank account is well able to withstand any amount of rainy days but my mate takes his penny pinching to the extremes he would put Scrooge and Shylock to shame.

To be quite honest I pity my mate because he is losing out on so much pleasure.

[howie]

Agree Bob. Being mean with money usually comes with a meaness of spirit as well and rarely makes for worthwhile friendships.

[RupertGS]

Tracker - 2008-12-10 5:07 PM ....... but saving money through ingenuity and awareness is indeed an art form, and for some of us a very satisfying art form, that can be developed over the years. 

:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D