High-intensity headlamp bulbs in Fiat Ducato X250

[RogerGW]

Hello,

 

I'm a moderately experienced caravanner who's about to pick up his first motorhome in a couple of days. It's a new Trigano Tribute 650.

 

The dealer is adding various bits to it for me (rear TV camera, alarm, etc.). I also asked for high-intensity headlamp bulbs. He tells me that the Fiat centre doing the PDI doesn't want to fit them. They say there's a risk of the headlamp cover melting and that they are, anyway, illegal.

 

This was news to me. I've been driving a Kia Sorento with them fitted for over a year with no ill-effects to the front light cover, which I assume to be of similar material to that on the Ducato. I've seen nothing anywhere about the legal position.

 

I wonder if the Fiat service centre is just passing on rumours. Has anyone any definitive information on this matter?

 

Thanks in anticipation,

 

Roger Whitehead

[Mike P]

Hi Roger,

High intensity headlights may not be illegal but I would say from the approaching driver's point of view they're definitely antisocial, particularly on the narrow switchback roads around Cumbria where I live.

My Cheyenne 630 LB on the Fiat X250 has the standard headlights which I find quite adequate, and I tend not to hang about. Hope you might be one to reconsider.

regards

Mike P

[colin]

What is your definition of "high-intensity headlamp bulbs"? if it is of a higher wattage than the standard Fiat items then I believe they will be illegal, the max wattage allowed is 60/55(from memory) if you fit 100/80 it is illegal, if on the other hand you mean the different type of bulbs I'm not sure what the present situation is, there was some mention of redefining legal limit in lumems, but I'm not sure this has been done.

[Derek Uzzell]

Roger:

 

The criterion for bulb legality is based on internationally agreed standards relating to road-vehicle bulb design, rather than on bulb wattage or light output.

 

For example, a H4 headlamp bulb is standardised to be 60W/55W. You can buy H4-design bulbs that use higher wattages (say 100W/90W), but these are illegal for road use. You can also buy H4-design bulbs that still use 60W/55W but exploit technology (eg. use of a special gas) to produce improved light output - such bulbs are legal for road use.

 

However, I can well understand a Fiat main agent refusing to replace original standard bulbs with high output ones during a new vehicle's PDI, as it introduces an unknown factor and, if the replacement bulbs did cause damage, the question of who was at fault for making the replacement would undoubtedly arise.

 

Frankly, if I were the Fiat service centre or your motorhome dealer, if you wanted high-output bulbs in your new Tribute's headlamps I'd suggest you fitted them yourself.

[andy mccord]

HID's are not fitted to X250, and can not be fitted because the lenses are not designed to use high intensity discharge bulbs

[RogerGW]

That was quick! Thanks, all.

 

I didn't specify the kind of bulb to the dealer, just said "high intensity". Perhaps he assumed I meant higher wattage bulbs. What I had on the Sorento were Philips Vision Plus H1 bulbs, which -- I now see -- are Xenon bulbs with same wattage as the originals. A couple of suppliers' Web sites say these are legal in the EU.

 

I would be using them only for main beam. I naturally dip my lights when I see oncoming motorists, so they would be no more dazzled than they would be if I had ordinary bulbs.

 

Roger

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

It needs emphasising that there are major differences between converting a vehicles 'conventional' lighting system to a genuine HID one, and simply replacing a vehicle's Original Equipment (OE) bulbs with bulbs that provide improved lighting performance. Not least the price, as a HID conversion kit can cost several hundred pounds while a pair of uprated bulbs is likely to be well under £20.

 

See

 

http://www.hids4u.co.uk/

 

for more information.

 

I assume Roger's reference to his Kia having "high-intensity headlamp bulbs" does not mean that the vehicle had been retro-fitted with a genuine HID system, just that its OE bulbs were replaced with higher performance ones. As long as the wattage of such replacement bulbs remains the same, realistically, there is minimal chance that headlamps will be damaged. In fact, the packaging for many high performance headlamp bulbs often carries an assurance that they will be safe to use with modern 'plastic' headlights.

 

(It's also worth highlighting that headlamp-bulb replacement often isn't easy nowadays and may take some time to do. I don't know how hard Ducato bulbs are to swap, but the ones on my Transit fall into the 'workshop job' category. Another reason perhaps why Fiat might prefer to avoid bulb-changing during the PDI.)

[RogerGW]

Thanks, Derek. It looks as if you posted your last message before mine appeared. It is indeed the Xenon ones I meant.

 

It seems I'll be fitting them myself. 8=)

 

Roger

[kelly58]

Its a Motorhome not a Rally / High Performance Car so why the High Intensity lights seems pointless to me I find the lights more than adequate at 50 ish MPH

[Derek Uzzell]

kelly58,

 

Why settle for "adequate" at 50mph" lights when you could have excellent ones for a very small outlay?

 

As Roger intends only to replace the main-beam bulbs (me, I'd change the dipped-beam ones if I were in his position) I can't see why this should be controversial and the extra range the replacement bulbs will provide could avoid an accident. I'd uprate the headlamp bulbs on my Hobby if I could get at the beggars!

[yeti]

The state of our roads now especially those with 'sleeping policemen',even on dip HIDs can dazzle on an uneven surface whether coming or going!!

[Brian Kirby]

All headlamps can cause dazzle, unless properly adjusted.  Many of today's bases have alignment adjusters on the dashboard, which allow the beams to be depressed.  However, I strongly suspect that the initial alignment is not re-set at the time of conversion so, with many vans running "tail down" their headlamps will, unless adjusted by the driver, be set too high.  The X250 vans' headlamps must already be near the maximum permissible mounting height so, if the beams are set high, dazzle to oncoming car drivers is inevitable. 

Before changing bulbs for higher output versions, therefore, do please get the alignments checked. 

I would add that driving around these dark evenings, I am amazed at the numbers of vehicles that have misaligned headlamps.  In many cases is is just one lamp that is misaligned, in other cases it seems to be that the driver has rear seat passengers and doesn't know how, or can't be bothered, to adjust the beams down to compensate for the extra load at the rear, or the smart young lads who kink their beams up a bit, so they can drive faster in the dark.  Finally, so many (cars mainly) have one headlamp not working.  Under these circumstances, I have to say the prospect of adding to the dipped beam intensity does not exactly fill me with joy!

[Derek Uzzell]

For anyone interested in the technical differences between the various types of vehicle lighting (halogen bulbs, HID systems, etc.), there's a lengthy entry on Wikipedia. This also touches on lighting requirements for driving on the 'wrong' side of the road - something that's come up several times on the forum, with plenty of misunderstandings being evident. See:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp

[Brian Kirby]

That is a corker, Derek.  Well found!  Well done Wiki!

[davenewellhome]

I replaced the standard H4 bulbs in our Highwayman two years ago to Xenon bulbs, the wattage remains the same as standard but they do give a brighter, whiter light output and although I don't do much after dark driving in the motorhome there have been occasions and I definitely noticed the benefit of the xenons. thankfully the Talbot headlights are easy enough to get to. I shall be fitting the same to my Iveco I'm converting, I bought the bulbs as part of a kit from Aldi a couple of weeks ago, I think it was about £5.99 or so for the kit which included a variety of other bulbs as well.

 

D.

[libby]

Roger,

 

If I've read the information correctly, offered by Derek,

 

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlamp)

 

A headlamp cleaning mechanism is a legal requirement when HIH bulbs are used, something I would assume is not a straight forward DIY job, and possibly why you were refused fitting them.

 

Bill

[Derek Uzzell]

libby,

 

I believe the section in Wikipedia you are referring to is the one that says

 

"Vehicles equipped with HID headlamps are required by ECE regulation 48 also to be equipped with headlamp lens cleaning systems and automatic beam levelling control."

 

However (and I've attempted to make this distinction crystal clear before), a HID (High Intensity Discharge) vehicle lighting system bears minimal resemblance - in price or technical specification - to the higher output light-bulbs Roger asked his motorhome dealership to arrange for the Fiat agent to fit during Roger's new Tribute's PDI.

 

There is no legal reason preventing a vehicle's Original Equipment (OE) halogen bulbs from being replaced by improved output bulbs, as long as this is on a like-for-like, wattage-for-wattage basis (eg. a H1 55W 'standard' bulb may legally be replaced by a H1 55W 'higher output' bulb). Improved output bulbs are readily available (Halfords stock them), are relatively cheap (sub-£20 per pair for top-quality branded bulbs) and (in principle) swapping from OE bulbs to higher-output bulbs should take a matter of minutes. Carrying out this type of lighting upgrade does not require any additional modification to a vehicle, such as adding systems for headlamp-cleaning or beam-level automation.

 

Wikipedia is a mine of information, but it's not always correct or current. I'm not 100% certain whether ECE regulation 48 applies to retro-fit HID systems, though I suspect it does. See this USA link

 

http://orca.st.usm.edu/~jmneal/tiburon/hids.htm#9

 

There are several UK companies marketing retro-fit HID kits - for example, Conrad Anderson offers kits advertised as "suitable for every car". If anyone wished to explore the legality aspect of these products, I'm sure Conrad Anderson would be happy to discuss this. See:

 

http://www.conrad-anderson.co.uk/accessories/xenon-hid-headlights.htm

 

[libby]

OK, but Roger did specify HIH bulbs in his 'Subject'.

[RogerGW]

libby - 2008-12-14 12:33 PM

 

OK, but Roger did specify HIH bulbs in his 'Subject'.

 

That's true, Libby, but I didn't specify HID bulbs. My second message, the same day, made clear that I'm taking about Xenon bulbs with same wattage as the originals. These, equally, are high-intensity (i.e. brighter).

 

In that same message, I also said that I'm intending these only to replace the main beam bulbs in the Fiat.

 

Roger

[libby]

Good

[RogerGW]

libby - 2008-12-15 11:46 AM

 

Good

 

I know. I just can't help it.

 

8=)

 

Roger

[RogerGW]

An update. I got a pair of Halfords' Extreme Brilliance bulbs on a BOGOF deal, which the Fiat dealer in Keswick fitted for me. It's a fiddly job that I could not have done.

 

They charged me just a tenner. This was money well spent, as the results are, if you'll excuse the pun, brilliant. No problems with overheating either.

 

The only people I dazzle are those strange folk who drive everywhere on dipped beam, even on unlit roads. I sometimes catch them with the full whack if I haven't seen their lights on a bend. Serves them right -- they should put an extra shilling in the meter. Otherwise, it's plain sailing.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

 

 

[lennyhb]

Hi Roger,

 

There is nothing at all wrong with fitting higher brightness bulbs to the Fiat.

 

Bulbs such as Osram Night Breaker are fully legal and suitable for modern plastic lenses they are the same wattage as standard bulbs but give 90% more light a longer beam & are 10% whiter.

 

Modern vehicle lens/reflector design is so good now you do not get the same advantage when fitting the higher performance bulb as you do in older vehicles.

 

I have them in my Kia Sedona but I have not bothered in the Motohome, one disadvantage is their life is a lot shorter, in the Kia they last about 6/7 months but worth it for the better performance.

 

If you want some Night Breakers at a very good price take a look at my web site, address below.

[RogerGW]

lennyhb - 2009-03-12 9:16 AM

Hi Roger,

There is nothing at all wrong with fitting higher brightness bulbs to the Fiat.

 

Thanks for the confirmation, Lenny, and for the supply details. That's a good price (http://tinyurl.com/aksqo6 ).

 

BTW, the ones in my Kia Sorento lasted at least a year and were still fine when I disposed of it. Perhaps you do more night driving than I.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[lennyhb]

Life of them is related to voltage as they are running at the limit, depends on the setting of the vehicle voltage regulator, in Vauxhall's & BMW's life can be very short 2/3 months as their regulator's tend to be a few tenths of a volt higher.