Winnebago Volkswagen Rialto T4 2.4TD

[embee]

Has any one had experience of this model ? I have seen one with only 15.000 miles and in immaculate condition. The asking price is £18.000 and it has all the usual American extras - aircon, micro wave etc and an afterfit turbo charger.

 

Would I be playing with fire here ???

 

Mike

[Guest JudgeMental]

 

Don't see why you should be concerned. But are you sure it is on a TD chassis as most of these American vans are on the V6 petrol chassis...so expensive to run.

 

I would investigate that it has enough additional payload to suit your needs as well*-)

[Derek Uzzell]

embee:

 

I notice that e-bay has a 1995 Rialto with 2.5litre petrol motor advertised at £14k.

 

Like JudgeMental I'm rather surprised that a 2.4 diesel was used for the 1997 version you have seen. These are quite heavy vehicles and a normally-aspirated 2.4litre VW diesel would struggle to pull them around. This might explain the retro-fitted turbocharger (or do you just mean that its turbo-charger has been replaced?), though I'd be wondering if the vehicle had been given an engine transplant at some stage. I'd also be VERY wary of the 15k mileage.

 

Are you happy with owning and driving a large left-hand drive vehicle? It can be a lot harder to make the transition from RHD car to LHD motorhome than is often imagined (I certainly found that to be so) and, unless you propose to travel a lot outside the UK, staying with RHD is probably the better option.

 

[olley]

Hi I know nothing about the Rialto, but felt I had to comment on lefthand drive, I went from a R/H drive 7 metre eurovan to a L/H drive 10metre yank, it was a bit strange at first but you soon get used to it, and isn't in my opinion a reason not to buy it.

 

The insurance companies appear to think the same as premiums are very low.

 

Olley

[embee]

Thanks for your comments.

 

The vehicle, I have been assured, is a "P" reg. 1997 2.4 TD Volkswagen T4. "Sounds as thought they might not know really from your info"

 

The turbo is a TB manufactured.

 

Guess this size American MH needs a larger engine even though this one has been turbo charged. Ummmh !

 

You are correct - it's a left hand drive.

 

I'm concerned about possible Tired Motor syndrome, weight of the unit - the on board equipment age and possible problems and costs they may present and the way it drives.

 

I would also like to hear from some one who has one or owned one.

[hallii]

Putting my "petrolhead" on here.

 

If the engine was not designed to have a turbo from new, or if the existing turbo boost is turned up to much, pistons can melt, heads can warp, valves can burn, and there are extra loads on all the components attached to the crank.

 

The 2.4 five cylinder engine with a factory turbo fitted to later models was built for the job.

 

The VW engines are robust and with proper maintenence will do hundreds of thousands of miles, but to be honest, I wouldn't touch such a motor with a barge pole!

 

Of course you could allow say £3000 for an engine rebuild and then have many miles of happy motoring.

 

Geoff

[George Collings]

That 2.4 T4 Rialto turbocharged by TB is possibly the only one in existence.

They are built by on an Al-Ko chassis giving a very low floor.

 

I used to have a Auto-Sleepers Clubman on the 2.4 and did a lot of Internet research on the motor and kept it standard with no blower,

 

I found a paper presented to the American SAE by the VW development engineer for the motor. A turbocharged version was sold in Europe but not the UK. One of the mods was that it had thicker cylinder head bolts. It might of just been a case of over engineering but might also have been the result of development programme experience with head gasket problems due to incresed pressure and thermal loadings . Just something to bear in mind. I do not have the internet address any more.

 

If you Google Le Sharo you will turn up a lot of info but here is one worth a look.

http://www.lesharo.co.uk/

 

From my 6 ft 2 in and badly scarred bald headed viewpoint headroom of 6ft 1in or in some places less would be a problem.

 

The low build and smooth shape ought to be good for furl economy.

 

I met an an American owner with a V6 engined one with a LPG conversion who was very pleased with both performance and costs. There are a lot more of these about but think in terms of about £1500+ for the conversion.

 

The standard petrol injection computer is normally utilised to control the LPG system.

 

 

 

[JeffersonCampervan]

NO North American Rialtas ever had diesel engines. Not one.

 

1995 & 1996 had a 5 cylinder petrol.

1997 - 2001 had a 6 cylinder 2.8L 12 valve VR6 petrol.

2002 - 2005 had a 6 cylinder 2.8L 24 valve petrol engine, power increased to 201 hp .

 

here's a CD produced by one of the Rialta forum members with somewhat complete info:

 

http://netfev.org/rialta/index.htm

 

Caveat - the following is a vague recollection: Winnebago early on had an agreement with, IIRC, a German distributor & produced about 2 dozen Rialtas for Europe with diesel engines. Again IIRC this distributor went under & an Engish company acquired the inventory & most of these reside in the UK today. I would think that they are all 95s & would not have 120V appliances.

 

 

[George Collings]

Sorry about the duff Lee Sharo site. It was the same idea but an earlier version built on the Renault Trafic.

[Guest JudgeMental]

For not much more money you could get a more up to date van. with modern more efficient and Euro 4 compliant engine...less to worry about and with far better resale value*-)

[Derek Uzzell]

olley - 2008-12-11 5:28 PM

I went from a R/H drive 7 metre eurovan to a L/H drive 10metre yank, it was a bit strange at first but you soon get used to it

 

I went from a RHD 6 metre long UK-built motorhome to a LHD 6.38 metre long German-built 'van. I naively thought the transition would be seamless, but, initially, I had a helluva job deciding where the LHD vehicle was positioned on the road when I was driving it and it took thousands of miles before I gained any sort of intuitive feel. After more than 3 years, I'm still not as comfortable with the LHD motorhome as I'd like when I'm driving it in the UK (probably because I don't get much practice), though I'm happy enough with it when I'm abroad.

 

I wasn't suggesting a Rialto's LHD should stop embee buying one (or, for that matter, from choosing any other LHD motorhome), but it's definitely something to bear in mind. Going from a RHD car + caravan to an over-20' LHD motorhome (especially when you are no longer a Spring Chicken) may prove more 'interesting' than is first thought.

[Derek Uzzell]

Some more on Rialto in this MotorHomeFacts forum-thread:

 

http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-22347-days0-orderasc-0.html

[JeffersonCampervan]

Just a note for those trying do internet searches : It is not spelled "Rialto", the model is "RIALTA"

 

(BTW, I have a post in that MHF thread before I shipped, aminly dealing with dumping the tanks (no cassettes) - FYI I have had no trouble as long a I used foresight :-)

[embee]

Very many thanks to every one for all the information you have posted on this vehicle .

 

What an interesting MH and there is enough reading material to keep my busy for ages.

 

Now - where do I stand ? The low mileage, all the goodies and the unusual shape with the VW engine got my attention, not having seen one before.

 

I just don't think I have the guts to take it on.

 

If I was younger and had some mechanical and motor home knowledge I might have been tempted. Now thought, I have been directed by her who must be obeyed, to put in more money and play save with a "normal" and modern vehicle !!

 

Oh dear - the search goes on and thanks again to all who have helped me here.

 

Michael

[JeffersonCampervan]

Mike-

 

I see from your latest post that you've elected not to buy the Rialta, but I'll still give my basic pros & cons. There's a lot more opinion on the 2 yahoo forums:

 

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rialta/

 

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Rialta-Tech/

 

Pros:

1) runs & handles like a regular van - very comfortable -very easy to manouevre & drive long distances. The 201 hp petrol engine I have has tons of power.

2)compact fully featured layout - mine is a later layout, the HD, which means we leave the bed made up all the time, using the table directly behind the passenger seat. I doubt the one you are looking at has this layout.

3) facilities like the telescoping bathroom (means very small footprint when driving/living, expanding for the few minutes a day you actually use it)

4) hot water on both electric & radiator coolant heat - when you arrive, the water is hot; generator, 3 a/c compressors, propane furnace; large fridge with freezer (on my layout); rear electric heat;

5) low profile front wheel drive makes it look great (IMHO)!

6) VW reliability & worldwide service options

 

Cons:

1) traction on eg. wet grass not so great with front wheel drive

2) head room - entry & kitchen have plenty, but most of the coach is less than 6 ft.

3) a 2 person only (plus a dog) van.

4) a lot of people don't like the telescoping bathroom, but I put it in the plus column.

5) a little less convenient to dump with no-cassette American tank&hose system. Increasingly less of a concern & simply requires foresight & not passing up an amenable dump station.

 

 

That's just off the top of my head, I could come up with more, but I 'll stop here.

 

Good luck - maybe we'll run into each other in Europe one day!

 

Frank

 

P.S. - I tried to send this as a PM, but for some reason the PM sits in my outbox unsent - I have no idea why & can see no "send" button (?).

 

 

 

 

 

[embee]

Got your PM Frank and sent a reply.Hope you get it !

 

I'm having problems getting onto the Yahoo sites your mention !!

[Derek Uzzell]

One possible Rialta 'con' (at least in the UK) is that they seem to be particularly hard to sell second-hand. There's been an advert for one in MMM for about 6 months.

 

Being LHD, usually petrol-engined and with a unique USA design, I suppose that shouldn't be too surprising, but, if I was looking to buy one in the UK, I would want it at a knock-down bargain price.

[JeffersonCampervan]

Mike- the yahoo links work fine for me (?)

 

Derek - makes sense - the Rialta market over here is strong because it is virtually the only vehicle with its small size/amenity combination and by North American standards is easy on the petrol. It really has that market to itself & used ones go for close to what they sold for new. But over there you have plenty of vehicles with all the virtues of the Rialta (sans the questionable benefit of the genny/coach a/c).

If the EU didn't have that pesky residence requirement for vehicle registration, I would have just bought a Hymer or a Globebus rather than ship mine over.

[david lloyd]

Hi emmbee

 

We had a Rialta a few years back - a 1998 VR6 petrol version.

 

An absolutely fantastic van in my opinion and, had we found one at the right price with the 'right' layout for us we would have bought one again before getting the IH.

 

For it's age it is one of the best looking vehicles around. The new Fiat X250 coachbuilt chassis made great play about the fact they were widening the rear track (shame about the reverse judder then) but Winnebago and Alko were already doing that on the Rialta and consequently it handles like it is on rails. The low floor height (and ours had genuine adjustable air suspension) low profile and wide rear track it gave an excellent ride too.

 

Someone referred to the diesel engine version only being sold in europe and that is true but when the German dealer went bust Dudleys of Oxford (Winnebago dealer) bought their remaining stock and we saw one diesel on their forecourt when we bought ours from there. Personally, I would go for the petroil VR6 every time and, if possible, have an LPG conversion.

 

Diesel/petrol decisions apart, given the specification and the fact that it is euro friendly in terms of overall size, servicing etc it is a van well worth considering if it meets your needs as far as layout is concerned. The particular van in MMM that Derek refers to has actually been for sale for more like 18 months and I have seen it reduced several times. It is not the layout we wanted but it is certainly due for another big reduction in price methinks................ The fact it has been on sale illustrates that it is not a model that will be easy to sell when it comes to it but ours went in part exchange with a dealer.

 

Whatever you choose in the end good luck with the search.

 

David

[onecal]

Hi

Looks like the engine is something that was put in where a petrol once lived. Be careful here 2.4 normal Asp' never took well to turbo conversions as already explaned. The 2.5 TDI conversion is a far better bet.

Regards,

Brendan.

[embee]

This story gets very interesting ! Had a closer look today at the vehicle after researching every bit of information I could find over the week end and taking into account what you very kind people have written to me.

 

From the Winnebago brochures I down loaded from the USA Winnebago site, (they have, it appears, brochures of every model they have made).

 

Firstly, it is clear from the graphics, rear lights and the split rear door this vehicle is younger than 1996. The Winnebago book with all the vehicle paper work, say 1995 but the British paper work says it was first registered July 1997.

 

It could well be that it is a vehicle that IIRC Germany had but never sold by them in 1995/6.

It was then shipped to England by Dudleys of Oxford when they bought out the remaining IIRC stock. Then sold it in July 1997 to an English customer - as shown on the government paper work.

 

So - what year should the vehicle be classed as 1995/6/or 7 ?

 

The VW VIN plate giving all the details of the cab and engine has not been found on the vehicle. I await a phone call when it has and details revealed !

 

It drove very. very well. Smooth and quiet, even for a diesel. No crashing and thumping. Good gear change. It felt good and 15.000 on the clock seemed right

 

The condition is just superb outside, the upholstery looks unused, all the wall and roof fabric spotless and everything works including the cab electric windows. The interior lights were a little yellow, not giving a nice bright light . The the second row of seats when folded flat were too high to offer anything other than 2 beds - not loungers up front. Big shame.

 

The big disappointment, and I mean BIG, was the quality of the bed in the rear. I could feel very single part of the metal construction holding the bed up when I tried it out! Not too clever for a bad back or a good nights sleep.

 

A shock when you consider the average American is heavier than a European.

 

I wait with great interest over the next few days what the outcome will be.

 

In the Dudley web site showing their stock of Winnebago's, I noticed a 2003 Rialta Petrol, 2300 miles on the clock. It is only from the graphics and lower colour panels (which I dislike ) you would be able to tell it was newer model from the one I'm looking at - ohhh, must not forget the £30.000 price difference and 13.000 miles between the two!!!

 

Some dilemma this one, but very interesting!

 

Mike

[JeffersonCampervan]

embee - 2008-12-16 2:59 PM

 

 

It could well be that it is a vehicle that IIRC Germany had but never sold by them in 1995/6.

It was then shipped to England by Dudleys of Oxford when they bought out the remaining IIRC stock. Then sold it in July 1997 to an English customer - as shown on the government paper work.

 

So - what year should the vehicle be classed as 1995/6/or 7 ?

 

The big disappointment, and I mean BIG, was the quality of the bed in the rear. I could feel very single part of the metal construction holding the bed up when I tried it out! Not too clever for a bad back or a good nights sleep.

 

 

In the Dudley web site showing their stock of Winnebago's, I noticed a 2003 Rialta Petrol, 2300 miles on the clock. It is only from the graphics and lower colour panels (which I dislike ) you would be able to tell it was newer model from the one I'm looking at - ohhh, must not forget the £30.000 price difference and 13.000 miles between the two!!!

 

 

Mike

 

Mike-

 

1)likely a 1995.

2) the rear seats/bed are meant to be dual purpose. We simply bought a two inch memory foam topper & sleep in luxury.

3) the 2003 has a substantial number of differences from the 1995 - it is practically identical to our 2004. The mileage is very interesting - Rialtas are typically driven to the dealer - ours had about that as a NEW vehicle - I suspect that 2003 is basically new. Is it warranteed? 49,000 GBP is about $74,000 USD at interbank rate. Street price of a new one like this in 2003/04 would have been about $60,000 USD + taxes(VAT). Considering that UK prices usually include sales taxes (something I find Europeans overlook is that our prices are typically quoted BEFORE taxes), and I assume all duties have been paid as well as conversion of electric, etc., the price isn't bad.

 

[embee]

Frank - tell you what - the one I'm looking at then is fantastic value.

 

I would never consider paying that price you mention for a late Rialta.

 

There are some incredible MH's for that sort of money here in Europe.

 

Just wish I had that sort of cash spare for a MH!!!

 

Mike

[Rod_vw]

Concerning the identity of the T4 Rialta, the VIN should be stamped into the metalwork in the recess between the windscreen lower edge and the rear edge if the bonnet on the right side (UK drivers side).

 

There should also be a sticker on the underside of the fuse box on the slide out (difficult to get out) cover. If you have this there shuld be a complete specification for the vehicle there as it left Volkswagen.

 

All of these spec codes should be 'de-codeable' on the following website http://www.igorweb.org/equidec/Default.aspx . That may give you some interesting data!

 

I am interested to hear what you find as I provide a dating service for the DVLA in conjunction with Volkswagen Owners Club (GB) http://www.vwocgb.com

[JeffersonCampervan]

Mike-

 

I agree - the Rialta's appeal over here is its size & small-is-better design ethos - an attitude exhibited in spades in Europe, making the Rialta one of many in Europe, while it practically defines its own category over here.

 

You may want to see what 1995s go for over here - your best source for recent sales figures is ebay.

 

Rod- FYI The year of the chassis is usually one year older than the "Winnebago" year - they buy the cabs in say, 2002, then build the rear chassis & coachwork in 2003 - so a 2003 Rialta will have a 2002 VW VIN, a 2004 will have a 2003 and so on. Not sure about the 95s (the first year) (The last year units - the 2005s - are on 2003 VWs and are basically no different from 2004s). The cabs came over as just that - 2 wheelers, 2 cabs attached back to front so they wouldn't fall over.