Pick it up!

[Guest P.Bell]

Calling all motorhomers! (especially wild campers)Please, leave the site you have chosen to spend the night CLEANER than when you found it. A few minutes picking up existing plastic bottles and other litter and seeing they are disposed of properly is a very small task, but highly appreciated by the locals. I just don't understand how some motorhomers can park up on sites strewn with rubbish without cleaning it up. And how about about investing in a water purificator to eliminate the necessity for buying and carrying plastic bottles and installing a SOG system (that puts the cassette waste tank under pressure) to forgo using harmfull and expensive chemicals. Any other ideas for more ecological motorhoming?

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Excellent advice. I didn't comment at the time on Norma's 3 Feb posting about wild-camping restrictions in Europe, but it's definitely getting harder to park motorhomes in France as time goes by. We (my wife and I) give it 10 years maximum after which, in many French areas, it will be campsites or nothing. I believe the pressure to remove motorhomes from casual parking (especially overnight parking) won't come just from campsite owners but much more from local communities themselves. There is a myth (in my opinion) that the aire de services network in France attracts tourist-income via motorcaravanners, but what it really attracts is motorcaravans not money. In our experience only a tiny number of aires are located where a spending spin-off is reasonably predictable. For the rest, any profit to the local community is unlikely. The effect is that locals see motorhomes arrive and depart but not spend. It's also a myth that France likes motorhomes - the only people who like motorhomes are the motorcaravanners themselves or people who profit from them. Many French equate motorcaravanners with cheap-skate "travellers" and, given the mess (and vehicle congestion) seen at some aires, it's not hard to see why. Lots of traditional parking spots are now restricted - Pointe de Saire (near Cherbourg) during the night, Montreuil Bellay during the day - the former because a small proportion of motorhome visiters were untidy with waste, the latter because so many 'vans were parking there the locals couldn't park their own cars. Once a restriction is applied it is seldom revoked. Thought I'd get that off my chest!

[Guest Clive]

I am dissapointed that anyone should consider the original posting necessary. The France you describe is not the one we know and love. Derek, you are sounding like Victor Meldrew! I also hope that you are wrong about Motorhomes in France. Our own experience is that it is only in a few overcrowded places in France that problems exist. So why go there? Be positive. Vive la difference!!

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Clive: I am positive (and sensible) - that's why I don't go abroad in the high tourist season and I don't go where I know hordes of other campers are likely to end up. Although leisure magazines and clubs will trumpet a 5, 6, 10% annual increase in European new motorhome registrations as a "good thing", common sense should tell one that these vehicles have to park somewhere and, the more there are, the bigger the numbers at each desirable parking spot. That's the key issue - motorcaravanners as a breed don't want to park in some tiny, back-of-beyond village, they want to get on a nice coastal headland facing over the sea and, nowadays, this will increasingly be in some new-house owner's sight-line. So don't just be positive, be realistic.

[Guest pete]

Derek, How can it be a myth that France likes motorhomes if so many (hundreds+) French local authorities have gone to the trouble and expense to install motorhome service points (flot bleu etc) and in some circumstances, providing lovely landscaped parking areas specifically for us? In addition, as part of the 'breed' i love going to both tiny back of beyond villages to stay the night as well as the coastal hotspots and more frequented areas, i'm sure i'm not in the minority. I also make a point of spending a few bob in the area that welcomes me and leaving the area cleaner than when i arrived if possible. As far as i'm concerned France is one of, if not 'the' most motorhome friendly countries in europe (second to Germany). I think you've got this one wrong my friend. pete.

[Guest Clive]

I think this is gonna be a godun! I reckon at least 15 ?

[Guest Nick Miller]

Think we gave this subject a thrashing a couple of months ago.. My recap for what its worth is... (it gets Clive closer to his 15 postings) I use Municipals/France Passion and very rarely Aires whilst in France. I have seen the number of Motorhomes being used in France increase dramatically over the past few years,and living as i do in a small seaside town i can fully understand that unrestricted parking causes locals to get 'hacked'off.'Yeah you just park there free with a good sea view for a couple of days whilst i fill up the parking meter on top of my Council Tax.' Comes readily to the tongue. If i see municipaly erected signs claiming that i am not welcome then i no longer park there albeit i was able to sleep at that point a few years ago. I know Clive will tell me i visit the wrong parts of France and that the locals love him parking in the town square. But i like Derek am sceptical about the future of unrestricted overnight parking in France.

[Guest Keith T]

We have been going to France at least once a year for 13 years, and now have a French built UK spec Rapido....having seen them over there all those years we bought one (in the UK, but not from that well know dealer up north!). There's far more French registered motorhomes aorund now, and very often it seems we see more Motorhomes than Caravans on their roads. We always come back about 12th July, though, and the balance may change after that. We always stay on sites, frequently Municipals, which generally provide enough facilities, usually in a very conventient spot, and at good prices, although some of these are rising quite a bit.We have never booked in advance, and often just decide where we want to be overnight and look for the signs on the way! What a pity we don't have the same in UK - nowadays you can't even get into some of the CC sites unless booking well in advance.....! What more needs be said. Like other contributors, I can understand the restrictions being put in if 'free' areas are abused.

[Guest P Bell]

My initial message seems to have gone unnoticed as it's got hijacked by a debate on wild camping in France in general. I live in S.W. France, near Toulouse and travel a lot to the Med and the Landes coast and the Pyrenees. Out of season there's no problems anywhere to wild camp for the night (even on the med coast if you know the spots where it's ok). In July and August it can get crowded, though this depends where you go. Wild camping is easy in the South West of France. However, cleaning up the spot you've chosen before camping and leaving it cleaner than when you found it will surely help to ensure that this practise will continue to be tolerated. If locals see a motorhome parked up with rubbish around it they will automatically assume that motorhomers are irresponsible litter louts, even if the rubbish isn't theirs. So,if there's rubbish lying around, PICK IT UP and do everyone a favour. Invest in a SOG system for the toilet cassette (to avoid chemical use) and install a drinking water purifier system to eliminate plastic containers. The initial expense is recuperated in around two/three years use of the motorhome. Wild campers for the wilderness! P.Bell

[Guest Clive]

We also have some favourite spots in South West France. We will not say where ours are and I hope you don,t reveal yours either. This way we will protect it for ourselves a bit longer. I only add that when we share a vista its nearly always with French who have come south for a vacation, the Brits or Germans haven,t found our haunts yet!

[Guest Nick Miller]

Yes us old boys do tend to wander off course especially if there is a chance of mounting one of our favourite hobby horses. So Mr.Bell,having driven my 2.8jtd from Scotland to the SW of France via Italy and sprayed ( alright caressed) most of Western Europe with a mixture of soot ,sulphur and free radical particle exhaust, not to mention the environmental cost of moving the crude half way round the world to be refined in a factory whose emmissions are thought by some to be cancerous. Oh and then there were a couple of wars to protect future oil supplies (perhaps..depends.. who you listen to)I now have to worry about the potential hazards of my properly disposed of Formaldehyde based effluent cleaner damaging the environment of SW France.The burden becomes too great. If you use a SOG and wild camp how do you dispose of the effluent?I do clean up, almost daily, the local RSPB Wood but must admit to drawing the line at moist tissue.You can only go so far in life.Any litter anywhere is deplorable but perhaps we should worry about the litter we cannot see in the air as well. There we are Dame Ellen back on course??

[Guest Nick Miller]

P.S. I am ''greener'' than i thought. See from this month's Which Motorcaravan my toilet chemical of choice is now formaldehyde free.

[Guest P.Bell]

Hi Nick, I have a SOG system installed, as you can guess, and it really works - no smells,and no more expensive chemicals to buy and cart around. They cost around £100 in France in the accessory shops and are easy to fit. The water purifier is to avoid buying and stocking bottled water on board. Nature Pure (a U.K. company) sells them for a reasonable price. P.Bell

[Guest Norma]

How I agree with Nick's response. Don't like being barked at - though I know it was meant well. We have a marine toilet on (I suppose it should be in) our diesel vehicle. SOG, unfortunately, is not an option - unless anyone knows better - (though my blue is green too). And we also have a large water tank. To clean it out with Milton etc I consider unfriendly, so all our drinking water comes from 5 litre bottles that when possible we refill and recycle. There are 7 empty one's in the house, ready for refilling as we need. They will be renewed on our next long trip, when we can also recycle the empty containers, before we are poisoned by the plastic product! As for cleaning up behind others!! This country seems to be far worse - though not a sentiment that I could disagree with. I've certainly seen blue 'rubbish' in the gutters in the middle of Edinburgh - a posh square too - where Italian vans often 'wild camp' This hobby is so subjective! But hey - I'm all right so long as it's 'not in my back yard'! Off my soap box.

[Guest Ray]

The "pick it" up habit, or should I write " don't throw it down" used to be taught by parents years ago, mothers always had to empty pockets before washing clothes. This is a habit that has continued into "oldish age" Like the person who started this thread we always collect all the rubish from a large area around our overnight stopping places and have been thanked by locals for doing it. Why do we do it? To create the impression that motorhomers respect the area in which they have parked so that others are welcomed. When we park just north of Carteret, I always collect glass from the beach while walking. the last time we were there a local came across to see what I was collecting, no not mussels or cockles but a couple of bags of sticky black oil, the comment was " thats a good idea, I could do that while walking each day" If you want freedom, protect it.

[Guest David]

Well I had to take Clive up on this and make it 15. I agree with a lot thats be said, pick your rubbish up, keep places clean and tidy, but I fear it sometimes is the locals who seem to leave a mess behind. As for water whats wrong with the tank already fitted, flush it out now and again and it should be OK, why buy water that someone takes out of the ground for next to nothing and give them a fat profit. Happy litter free Camping for all.

[Guest P.Bell]

Nothing will ever change if it's going to be tit for tat, as in - Italian motorhomers in Edinburgh leave waste - implying 'so why can't I'. But this attitude proves a point. Litter attracts litter, but if there isn't any on the ground then people are less inclined to drop any. So, I still say PICK IT UP (even if it's not yours). Wild camping is usually practised in places where the local council cleaners don't visit. We've all got dustbin bags on board and it's a doddle to spend 5 minutes collecting plastic waste in the vicinity of the night-time halt. And, incidentally, it's people who get up on soap boxes who (occasionally)change the world.

[Guest Norma]

Sorry, I certainly don't believe that I can dump ANYTHING! Also sorry if that's what you thought I was implying! Thankfully I don't seem to have stayed anywhere that was really bad - but if I do no doubt I will heed your advice. Gosh this posting is getting heated ...

[Guest P.Bell]

I believe you Norma. Sorry I implied it. Northern Portugal is the place to go (Greece too, so I've heard)to see roadsides and beauty spots systematically spoilt with rubbish (mainly plastic bottles and tissues). When I visited two years ago, the country was launching a tri -selective waste programme with lots of EEC money. Unfortunately, the Portugese still preferred the old custom of waste abandon, rather than use the spanking new plastic dustbins (labelled 'provided by the EEC')which were invariably empty. The beaches too, were very seriously littered from Porto to Lisbon. Very odd, because in all other respects the Portugese are very nice people.

[Guest Clive]

Well I underestimated this one! Water - We fill up the tank from the tap and that,s what we drink. Hot cold diluted with scotch, orange squash or whatever. Anyone who purchases bottled water needs a good smacking as its totally non green. All that transport involved, all those plastic bottles made from oil. Come on. It cannot be right, not evian in France! I used to enjoy going abroad because my Mrs is re-cycling mad and it was an escape from the decipline. But now even on French camp sites we have to segregate the waste into glass, plastic, paper, cardboard etc. Where will it all end Mrs Bridges, Where will it all?

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Norma: SOG do market extractor-fan kits for marine-type toilets with fixed waste tanks. The principle is slightly different as operation of the fan (as standard) is manual via a push-button, rather than the automatic operation initiated when a Thetford cassette-toilet's blade-valve is opened. I once read an article showing how the marine toilet SOG fan could be switched on for a timed duration each time a motorhome's engine was started (or was it each time the engine was stopped?!), but a push-button + timer-relay seems to make more sense. Visit www.SOG-Dahmann.de if you would like more details. P Bell: Apologies for immediately skidding off your subject: I suppose it was the mention of picking up waste that triggered the reaction. As you live in France, I'm sure you are familiar with the CLC's Charter but it might be worth repeating it for UK motorcaravanners' interest. This is an English version from Pilote's UK handbook: THE MOTORCARAVANNER'S CHARTER PILOTE supports the efforts of the Comite de Liaison du Camping-Car (CLC*) and urges all motorcaravanners to follow the CLC's charter. 1) When motorhomes are used as means of transport, the traffic regulations applicable to the vehicle-category into which motorhomes fall (private vehicles) must be met. 2) When motorhomes are used for habitation purposes, the regulations applying to the local population at the places visited must be respected. 3) In town centres or in urban areas, choose parking spots: - that are away from crowds of people. - that do not obstruct visibility or business trade. - where it is clear that the motorhome's size will not obstruct traffic-flow. 4) Similarly, when living in a motorhome in such places: - do not obstruct the area outside the vehicle. - do not cause any nuisance to the local people. - do not monopolise public areas. - to avoid possible problems, do keep pets under proper control. 5) Waste-water emptying must be done: - at appropriate locations and never close to housing, water-courses, or cultivation. - it is a legal offence to empty 'black-water' (WC contents) into rain-water drains. 6) During journeys, all drain taps/valves must be firmly closed. 7) To allay suspicions, even drainage of fresh-water should be done discreetly. 8) It is always worth having the means to locate where drainage can be done in proper conditions. 9) Rubbish-smells must be prevented by using waste-bag disposal points. By respecting these common-sense principles, everyone will be able to benefit fully from the many pleasures that motorhome ownership provides. *CLC is made up of: - le Syndicat des Constructeurs de camping-cars - le Syndicat des Distributeurs de camping-cars - la Fedération des Clubs d'utilisateurs de camping-cars.

[Guest Mel B]

I've just read through this lot ... by heck you can all 'natter'! I think I've lost the will to live!!! Only joking,I'm still realing from t' posting about Derek's lack of "shagging"! Now, that's got you all wondering hasn't it!!!

[Guest Bungalow Bill]

I have this problem, I'm always forgetting things. I'll bet I'll even forget why I'm writing this message.........Oh yeah, it was to get it up to no 23!

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Mel B: No need to worry - once every 6 years ain't bad for a 84 year old monk!

[Guest Mel B]

As often as that! Wow, I thought everything stopped after 40!!! Well, I've told my husband that anyway!!!