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Registering a new imported van


nicolasblackhurst

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Hi,

 

I am new to the Forum and we have just taken delivery of a 2009 Adria Coral 670 SL. I won't name the Dealer as it probably isn't their fault, but we have yet to get a V5 or tax disc.

 

We were told that the documentation hadn't arrived from Slovenia and isn't sent until the vehicle arrives in this country. The Dealer had been sent a faxed copy of the document required, but the DVLA refused to accept it. We were given a letter by the Dealer saying that the tax was in the post, not strictly true as the DVLA hadn't issued a V5. So tehnically we were 'Failing to display a valid tax disc' and if an awkward copper had stopped us on the way home we could have been charged. We are still waiting for a disc and the vehicle has been in this country for at least 3 weeks now.

 

This is probably the fault of Adria's Office staff in Slovenia and it is a pity that the good work by the shopfloor has been let down by them.

 

Has this happened to anybody else and is this normal practice?

 

Thanks for your input,

 

Nick

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I'm sorry but I find this very hard to believe as having imported a motorhome myself (an RV) in order to clear customs you MUST have original documentation!!!!

 

You then recieve a clearance number that allows you to register the vehicle, so I think someone is telling you porkies!

 

Anyway how can you have a 2009 vehicle? Are they waiting till 1/01/09???

 

If you have a registration number just check on the web and you can find out if you are A: Taxed B; Insured.

 

Regards Pat

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Nick,

 

Whatever the situation in Slovenia, or how Adria operates, it was still your UK dealer's responsibility to ensure that your motorhome was fully legal as far as UK 'authorities' were concerned before it was handed over to you.

 

Unless the appropriate documentation needed for your motorhome to be UK-registered can be provided to the DVLA your motorhome can't be registered. It's as simple as that...

 

Operating an unregistered vehicle is illegal and, besides making you open to prosecution, may well have insurance implications. Your dealer will be fully aware of this and, although it's his/her fault for permitting the vehicle to be sold to you in an unregistered state, that won't excuse you for driving it unregistered.

 

What has happened in your case is definitely not normal practice. Although it may well be that your dealer is making strong efforts to obtain the requisite documents, you really do need to make it very plain to the dealer that the matter must be resolved immediately.

 

(Regarding Pat's "Anyway how can you have a 2009 vehicle? " question, I assume your Adria Coral is a 2009-model, as the Continental European motorhome 'new model year' commences annually around October.)

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Agreed

Also, I can't understand why the faxed information should not be acceptable.  It would have required only a fairly simple check to confirm it relates to your van: verify VIN etc.  It should then have been perfectly possible for the dealer to copy the information from the fax to a DVLA application form, and take that to the nearest DVLA office for registration.  It all seems very odd. 

I don't know how you paid the dealer, but would strongly suggest to him he has sold you the vehicle in a state in which it cannot be used and, unless he bucks up his ideas, you'll have to consider your options.  Have you taken this up with the MD/CEO of the dealership?  You may just be suffering from an incompetent or inexperienced sales person.

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Hi,

 

Thank you all very much for your help. I have spoken the the Salesman on the phone and told him what you have said, basically I read the riot act to him. He said that they still hadn't got the Certificate of Conformity (I think that is what he called it) and he will phone me again in the morning to let me know what is happening. I won't hold my breath! If he does phone in the morning I will read him what you have said and if there is no joy I will ask to speak to the owner of the company.

 

By the way it is a 2009 Model, sorry for the confusion. We saw it at the NEC and ordered it then.

 

Thanks once again.

 

Nick

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Nick,

 

I hesitate to muddy the waters on this, but I'm not sure that a new imported motor caravan actually requires a Certificate of Conformity (CoC) for it to be UK-registered.

 

There's a booklet "How to register a vehicle imported into Great Britain" (issued by the Department for Transport) that lists how a vehicle's compliance with technical requirements may be shown. The various options include presentation of a Certificate of Conformity, a SVA Certificate, etc.. However, the final option says "Evidence of exemption from Type Approval. This may be because the vehicle is more than 10 years old or is an exempted class such as a motor caravan".

 

I can well believe the DVLA might want a CoC, because there really ought to be one available to give them, but, if the vehicle in question is a motor caravan, then the DofT's rules seem to allow the vehicle to be UK-registered without that document being presented. If all else fails, you might try this argument with the DVLA.

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I recently took collection of my Adria, also had some problems with the dealer not registering it with the correct weight. Also I am still trying to get the warranty issue sorted out. My van is on the Renault Master, I was told when I bought the van that the base vehicle had the full 3 year Reanult warranty (it was the clinching factor in us buying the van) now it seems Renault & Adria say no it is only a European 2 year warranty. I am still waiting for the dealer to respond as he says that they are wrong & it is a UK warranty. When I read the T&C for the Reanult warranty it says

'The Warranty applies to any vehicle sold new in the United Kingdom as long as it is driven and remains registered in the following European countries:'

I bought it in the UK, on a recent copy of the MCM mag there is a picture of Adria saying the 'Best of British'

It also gets worse as Renault say as the van was delivered to Adria last year the vehicle already is due for a service (1 year from the date that it was delivered to Adria) all I get from Adria is I need to contact Renault regarding servicing, Renault say that the service is due on the date not from the date it was registered as new.

 

Up to now I wouldn't buy another Adria or a Renault base vehicle, the decision is still to be made regarding the dealer as he still insists that the warranty is 3 years & the service is due 1 year after the registration date, it remains to be seen what the outcome is. We are due to go for an extended trip to Europe but are wondering if we should cancel the trip until we know for certain.

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Kontiki,

 

Have a look at the following earlier forum thread

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12078&posts=12

 

Also Mike Chapman's comments on

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11285&start=1

 

(I believe Mike's 'early' warranty start-date was eventually resolved, with the start-date amended to the date the motorhome was handed over to him.)

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Thanks for the info Derek I read the posts with interest.

I am obviously fighting to get my warranty issue sorted out but I am not happy that I am having to spend so much time trying to get it done. If we are ever in a position to buy another new van I would make sure that I had something sorted before I buy the van.

What is annoying is I queried the warranty issue about 2 weeks after I agreed to buy the van which I collected about 6 weeks later. The dealer has always said that the van has a 3 year warranty but that doesn't help when both Renault & Adria say not.

I bought my van new in the UK, from the VIN it shows 'TECHNICAL LEGISLATIVE COUNTRY GREAT BRITAIN' but Renault say I didn't buy it from Renault I bought it from a Adria dealer so effectivley I am buying it from Solvenia!!!!

Renault aren't doing themselves any favours with this attitude, after all the amount of motorhomes they sell & the ones that do have warranty claims I would think is quite small so I don't understand why they are being so awkward.

 

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Acouple of points on the above:

 

1. The Certificate of Conformity is not required to re-register a vehicle in the UK. What will be required soon (but isn't yet) is the ECWVTA - EC Whole Vehicle Type Approval Certificate. At present motorhomes and ambulances are exempt, but it is proposed to remove this exemption (I have no date for this, though).

 

2. Pat is partly wrong, I fear, about paperwork requirements. If you are importing a vehicle from a non-EU state using a carrier (as would be the case in shipping an RV to the UK, then customes documentation is needed. If you are importing from another EU state, standard practice is simply to drive through Customs without stopping. If, perchance, you are stopped, then simply showing a copy of the DVLA and HMR&C VAT booklets on self importation should satisfy the customs official. No customs documentation is required.

 

Mel E

====

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kontiki - 2008-12-21 10:44 PM Thanks for the info Derek I read the posts with interest. I am obviously fighting to get my warranty issue sorted out but I am not happy that I am having to spend so much time trying to get it done. If we are ever in a position to buy another new van I would make sure that I had something sorted before I buy the van. What is annoying is I queried the warranty issue about 2 weeks after I agreed to buy the van which I collected about 6 weeks later. The dealer has always said that the van has a 3 year warranty but that doesn't help when both Renault & Adria say not. I bought my van new in the UK, from the VIN it shows 'TECHNICAL LEGISLATIVE COUNTRY GREAT BRITAIN' but Renault say I didn't buy it from Renault I bought it from a Adria dealer so effectivley I am buying it from Solvenia!!!! Renault aren't doing themselves any favours with this attitude, after all the amount of motorhomes they sell & the ones that do have warranty claims I would think is quite small so I don't understand why they are being so awkward.

Have you tried the following contact?

Adria Concessionaires
Hall Street, Long Melford,
Suffolk, C010 9JP
tel: 0044 (0)870 774 0007
fax: 0044 (0)870 774 3007

They are, supposedly, Adria's representatives in the UK, so should be able to assist your dealer to sort out this little mess.  Certainly, they should be able to answer for any problems over registration and warranty issues.  All claims as to duration of warranty are being made by them.

Adria buy the chassis from Renault in Slovenia, they complete the motorhome and then export it to UK.  To be able to offer a three year Renault warranty in UK, Adria will have to have in place an agreement with Renault, otherwise all that will be on offer is the standard Euro two years warranty.  Since Adria seem to be claiming three years, I assume they have this agreement. 

I think your dealer has fallen down badly on his job here, since he should have ensured he had correctly registered and taxed your van before allowing you to drive it away (but how on earth did you insure it without a registration number?), and he should have sent notification of first registration to Renault, when doing this.  Had he done the latter, Renault would have a record of its registration number and the warranty commencement would have been re-set to the date of registration with, according to Adria, three years to run. 

I think your problem is your dealer's sloppy and amateur performance.  Go and give him a good hard kick, he is now getting you to do most of his back office work for him!

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I think that Nick is in the same position as me in that he is buying this from a UK dealer it is not a self import. In my case I bought new from a UK dealer what I thought was a UK spec vehicle made for the UK market. As far as Renault is concerned & to some extent Adria the van isn't the same as a vehicle bought from a UK Renault dealer. I also had the problem of the paperwork not coming from Adria until after the van was in the country. I was supposed to collect it on the 1st October but was then told it might take a couple of weeks until the documentation comes from Adria. In the end I said I would wait until the 1st November.

 

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Hi Brian, think I posted the same time as you, to clarify a few points, Adria are saying it is only a 2 year warranty, the dealer I bought from told me it was 3 years before I bought the van & still insists it is 3 years. I have tried Adria & they are all but useless, my van was taxed, registered & insured before I drove it away so that didn't apply to me.

When I have tried to get information from Adria their usual reply is to contact the dealer or Renault, in fact when I had a relativly simple query they said I should get the dealer to find the answer from them *-) .

When I queried Adria about Renault saying that my new van required a service in Dec 2008 (I got it Nov 2008) their answer was quote

 

'We are unable to comment regarding the servicing requirements of the base vehicles of our motorhomes, as we do not represent the manufacturers of them. We would suggest writing to Renault customer services requesting clarification of this issue.'

 

So I am left with a van less than 2 months old & they are saying the first service is due. >:-)

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nicolasblackhurst - 2008-12-18 7:37 PM

 

Hi,

 

I am new to the Forum and we have just taken delivery of a 2009 Adria Coral 670 SL. I won't name the Dealer as it probably isn't their fault, but we have yet to get a V5 or tax disc.

 

We were told that the documentation hadn't arrived from Slovenia and isn't sent until the vehicle arrives in this country. The Dealer had been sent a faxed copy of the document required, but the DVLA refused to accept it. We were given a letter by the Dealer saying that the tax was in the post, not strictly true as the DVLA hadn't issued a V5. So tehnically we were 'Failing to display a valid tax disc' and if an awkward copper had stopped us on the way home we could have been charged. We are still waiting for a disc and the vehicle has been in this country for at least 3 weeks now.

 

This is probably the fault of Adria's Office staff in Slovenia and it is a pity that the good work by the shopfloor has been let down by them.

 

Has this happened to anybody else and is this normal practice?

 

Thanks for your input,

 

Nick

 

Have just noticed this thread and am struggling with the implications of it. If their is no V5 and it has not been registered are you driving around without a number plate as well as no tax. The DVLA will certainly not accept copies of anything. If it has not been registered who supplied the number plate, if you have one. I would have walked away from this and in your place would be very concerned about it. It is normal practice with any vehicle new or used purchased from a dealer not to get the V5, it has to be registered in your name, however the dealer will be able to tax the van as all paper work should have been done and the van at the point of sale should be registered to the dealer. All that normally happens is that if a dealer has say ten new vans in stock he will register them with the DVLA who will issue ten numbers, these are allocated in any way the dealer chooses. The dealer then simply transfers ownership to the buyer but he can tax it at any point, normally the day you hand your money over. If he cannot do this then the paperwork is not complete and the DVLA will not issue a registration number, so I repeat, if you have numbers plates where did they come from, someone must have issued the numbers.

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Ed

In your case, it will be the agreement between Adria and Renault that governs the extent of the warranty.  On the face of it, therefore, your dealer has misinformed you.  You cannot expect either Renault or Adria to change their warranty terms because of an error by an Adria dealer.

Adria's comments in response to your query on the expired first service date is quite unacceptable.  Adria supplies the whole vehicle, which is based on a Renault chassis.  They buy the chassis from Renault and then sell the completed vehicle.  You do not buy a chassis from Renault, and the coachbuilt from Adria, leaving the dealer to screw the two together.  Slovenia is in the EC and is subject to EC directive 92-53-EEC, which sets out the requirements for multi-stage type approval, which is the procedure where a vehicle chassis is "completed" elsewhere.  I think, in truth, Renault are being a bit "thick" - not for the first time - about the servicing need.  Your vehicle is no different to any that Renault themselves sell after it has been stuck in their factory compound for an extended period.  Their warranty, and the service periods, will all commence from the date of registration. 

There is one other possibility that may be causing confusion.  Do you know if your Master was supplied via Renault trucks, or Renault cars?  Masters can be supplied by either, but cars will not recognise a Master supplied by trucks, and vice versa.  To be sure, you will need to quote the chassis number, and then ask Renault to confirm whether it is a Trucks, or a Cars, master.

However, don't lose heart, as many will tell you the Master is the best of the current base vehicles, it seems to have few vices, it doesn't leak, it doesn't judder, and it drives very well.  Is a two year warranty sufficient?  Well, these are tough little trucks, built for very hard work and high mileages, so I think two years should see any inherent problems emerge.  Both ours have been personal imports, and both had two year Euro warranties, and the only problems on either were quite early on, and relatively minor.  I think in the case of both Adria and Renault you need to get your queries to someone a bit more senior.  Another possibility, in the case of the service, might be to contact a Renault commercial garage - not a car dealership, they won't have workshop space - and take your van along and ask them if they can say when it needs service.  Once they can see when it was registered, and get its details, they should be able to get through to Renault on their technical network, get it properly registered on the UK database and sort it all out.

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I do understand that the Adria / Renault arrangement regarding the warranty both sayin 2 years, my complaint here is more about the dealer who has told me on numerous occasions that the warranty is 3 years. I did talk to the trading standards & they think I have a case based on the 1967 Misrepresentation Act, I did query the warranty a number of times before I collected the van & did consider cancelling. To me the 3 year warranty was a significant point in deciding to buy.

 

I will ring Renault tomorrow to find out if it's trucks on cars who supplied it. What is the significance of it being trucks or cars?

 

Our local Renault dealer is a large garage they also sell & service Fiat, Citroen & Nissan. Although they are car dealers they had no problem servicing my A class Frankia. I did call in & it was the same as talking to Renault, even though the registration is Nov 2008 they say it needs a service in Dec 2008 >:-) (not logical but still leaves me in a awkward situation as we are due to leave the country for 3 months on 1st Jan.) I did raise the point with Renault that if I bought a van from a Renault dealer & it had been sitting there for year would it require a service, they said it was up to the dealer but it should be serviced (I don't think so)

 

I like the van but not all this hassle having to sort out if I have a warranty & what it actually is. I thought I had covered everything before I collected the van but thats what you get relying on a salesmans word that it would all be sorted.

 

I would advise anybody buying a motorhome to get some sort of contract for the dealer to sign where he will be financially penalised if things like this aren't done by a specific date.

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Hi,

 

I have been onto my Dealer again today and made it plain that I am not happy at being left in the situation of not have a tax disc. I actually spoke to the owner first and bent his ear. I pointed out that if I was stopped by the police I could be charged with failing to display and he said, "Oh, it's only a £10 fine." I couldn't believe his attitude, what a bunch of cowboys!

The salesman who is supposed to be dealing with my case was on a day off and I was put through to his stand-in (being passed about from one person to another?) He told me that Adria are supposed to have sent duplicate paperwork by Registered post from Slovenia last Thursday, but it hadn't arrived yet. As soon as it does he said that they will register the vehicle and tax it. I asked to be phoned again tomorrow to be told if it had arrived and what is happening.

 

With regards to the Reg. No. the dealers had a list of numbers available to them allocated by the DVLA, they picked one and put the plates on the vehicle. The vehicle will then be registered with that number (if and when they can be bothered to do it I suppose.)

 

I have also posted a query about this on an Adria Forum, which you may find interesting as a helpful chap called Chris from Premier Motorhomes in Chichester has explained things. He is amazed at my Dealers goings on! The URL is: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-57292.html it you would like to look at it.

 

Nick

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I'm amazed that dealers can tell you that it's ok to drive without a tax disc, it was the reason I wouldn't collect my vehicle on the agreed date as they didn't have the tax disc, but I suspect they also didn't have the vehicle registered. Like you I was given a reg. number as the dealers have a block of these which they can allocate to a vehicle. This is doesn't mean it is registered, my dealer said that it would be in the post so I could legally drive without the tax disc, I found something on the DVLA website stating that the offence is not displaying a tax disc & I could still be fined. I would also think your insurance could be invalidated if the vehicle is taxed & registered.
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When I looked into warranty durations in the UK for Ford Transit-based motorhomes I had real problems getting hard information from many of the motorhome dealerships I contacted. The main reason for this seemed to be that, as the base-vehicle warranty wasn't something over which dealers had control or would be directly involved with should a warranty claim arise, they weren't particularly bothered about the warranty's exact terms and conditions. One salesman dismissively explained "That's nothing to do with the motorhome - it's a Ford responsibility", while another told me it was the first time in his many years of selling motorcaravans that anyone had asked. It also became apparent that some of the information I was confidently given was very suspect.

 

Regarding Adria, I notice that the February 2007 MMM test-report on a Renault Master-based Izola S-687SP stated that the vehicle's warranty was "3 years base vehicle and conversion". The motorhome MMM tested was loaned by Adria UK, so one might reasonably assume that this information came from there. I also have 2007 UK Adria brochures and, although these contain lots of technical data and pretty pictures, there is absolutely nothing in them about warranties - neither base-vehicle nor conversion.

 

Kontiki says "I would advise anybody buying a motorhome to get some sort of contract for the dealer to sign where he will be financially penalised if things like this aren't done by a specific date."

 

While fine in theory, the difficulty with this is that, if a buyer is able to anticipate a potential snag within the buying process to the extent of being able to guard against it by introducing a specific penalty-clause into the purchase contract, then there's a strong likelihood that the problem can be resolved satisfactorily before the order is placed. In reality, I think if a buyer tried to play the 'heavy' with a motorhome dealer at the contract stage, he/she would rapidly find themselves asked to take their business elsewhere. It's the unpredictable and unexpected that will get you, and the trouble comes when the buyer and (in kontiki's case, apparently the dealer as well) suddenly discovers that what they believed to be true when the motorhome was ordered now seems to have been incorrect.

 

I don't know if Renault-based Adrias sold 'first retail' in the UK should currently have a 2-year or 3-year base-vehicle warranty, but there seems to be some circumstantial evidence (MMM's Izola report) that it was 3 years in the past. If that was so, then it might explain kontiki's dealer's insistence that it is 3 years now. I think Adria motorhomes continue to have a 3-year 'conversion' warranty (which might possibly be cause for a dealer-to-buyer misunderstanding) as the December 2007 MMM-report on a Fiat-based Coral 660SP (once again on loan from Adria UK) gives the vehicle's warranties as 3-years conversion, 2-years base vehicle and 5-years water ingress.

 

On my 2007 Adria brochure there's a reference to the Secretary of the UK Club Adria with a phone number (077886 17776) that might be worth trying.

 

The MotorHomeFacts thread is also well worth reading regarding Adria and Renault.

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nicolasblackhurst - 2008-12-23 12:18 AM

 

Hi,

 

I have been onto my Dealer again today and made it plain that I am not happy at being left in the situation of not have a tax disc. I actually spoke to the owner first and bent his ear. I pointed out that if I was stopped by the police I could be charged with failing to display and he said, "Oh, it's only a £10 fine." I couldn't believe his attitude, what a bunch of cowboys!

The salesman who is supposed to be dealing with my case was on a day off and I was put through to his stand-in (being passed about from one person to another?) He told me that Adria are supposed to have sent duplicate paperwork by Registered post from Slovenia last Thursday, but it hadn't arrived yet. As soon as it does he said that they will register the vehicle and tax it. I asked to be phoned again tomorrow to be told if it had arrived and what is happening.

 

With regards to the Reg. No. the dealers had a list of numbers available to them allocated by the DVLA, they picked one and put the plates on the vehicle. The vehicle will then be registered with that number (if and when they can be bothered to do it I suppose.)

 

I have also posted a query about this on an Adria Forum, which you may find interesting as a helpful chap called Chris from Premier Motorhomes in Chichester has explained things. He is amazed at my Dealers goings on! The URL is: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-57292.html it you would like to look at it.

 

Nick

 

As I pointed out in my last post the dealer will have a number of plates allocated, however they cannot simply bolt one on and then say thats ok then all you need is a tax disc. I would imagine if you are stopped the lack of a tax disc will be the last of your worries. It would be interesting to know how it was insured, all vehicles have to be registered with a data base fairly quickly. When you do this the first thing asked for is registration number, which links to your van, provided the DVLA knows about it. You can insure from a vin number but vehicle still cannot be driven on the road without trade plates. I would not consider driving on a public road until this is sorted out.

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Interesting what you say about the February 2007 MMM test-report, have to look back & see if I have that one. I did also see on another dealers website with the Izola listed as having a 3 year base vehicle warranty but I can't find the site again.

 

*-) Realised that trying to get a dealer to sign something to cover all eventuallities wouldn't be practical :$ would be nice to have some sort of satisfaction guarantee *-) but once they have your cash your bargaining position changes.

 

I thought with this van we had covered everything, in fact I wasn't going to part with the cash until I was 100% happy, unfortunately it was only 99.9%, I drove off happy in the knowledge the 0.1% would be sorted out in a week or two.

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At last after looking on 'the dark side' I get to bottom of who the dealer is! Such a pity they where at top of our short list to supply new van, I'll keep them on list, but at the btm.

Also from 'the dark side' it becomes a little clearer as to what has 'gone on', my first thoughts where that the dealer was incompatent or a liar, well the fact you spent 3 days on dealers hook up would make me think they where embarast by you being there and where quite willing to get rid by whatever means. As for the 'ten pounds fine' must be 30 years since any fine was this low, Hmm might reconsider and knock them off the list.

I've said it before, there are any number of motorhome salesmen who would be 'drummed out' of the car business for being to too underhand!

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

 

Well, last Saturday I had a phone call from the Dealer and was told that the Salesman wouldn't be talking to customers anymore. The person that phoned me was the Parts Manager and he would be doing the talking to customers in future. He told me that he had got the tax disc in front of him and was putting it, the DLA404 and insurance cert. in an envelope and that it would go straight in the post. He apologised profusely, said that they had learnt lessons from this and no vehicle would leave them untaxed in the future.

 

The tax disc arrived on Monday and we are now all legal. So now we can start enjoying our new m/h at last!

 

Thank you all for your help.

 

Nick

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kontiki - 2008-12-22 11:07 PM

 

 

 

I will ring Renault tomorrow to find out if it's trucks on cars who supplied it. What is the significance of it being trucks or cars?

 

 

.

 

Hello Kontiki,

 

In answer to your question Renault in the UK have a number of arrangements with other vehicle manufacturers for the production of various models. The Master has several variations, all basically the same vehicle with badge changes, Renault Master, Vauxhall Movano and Nissan Interstar.

 

Renault Cars have manufacturing agreements with Nissan (Hence the similarity and shared components of the Renault Modus and Nissan Note) and also sell the Master.

 

Renault Trucks have an agreement with Volvo for the manufacture and servicing of HGV's which also includes the Master and Mascot.

 

What this means in Renault terms is that Cars and Trucks are in effect two separate trading companies and the warranty claims have to be submitted to the company that supplied the vehicle and with which the vehicle is registered. Renault Cars dealers will not carry out warranty work on Renault Trucks registered vehicles and vice versa. They will however both carry out servicing of the Master.

 

Hope this answers your question.

 

Regards,

 

Mike

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