Gas Regulators

[doonhamer]

Can anyone out there help.  I've recently moved to France and need to fit a French bottle which I can buy at any petrol station but I'm confused about the regulator I need. The one coming off the van, a Hymer, is Propane/Butane PN16 marked as "pa = 0,3 bar max" and has an attached label stating "Regulator only permitted in relation with Triomatic".  I'm going to use propane as the nights are a little cold at the moment but the propane regulators in the supermarket are marked as 37 bar - will this do or would it be better to go to the nearest Narbonne Accessories. 

[Randonneur]

We were looking for a replacement gas pipe for the motorhome and on the way back from a visit to the UK we visited Leroy Merlin at Coquelles, Calais, the salesman told us that none of the gas pipes they stock would be suitable as they are slightly different and to go to a motorhome/caravan dealers for the correct one. We already had a couple of different French regulators and only needed the pipe and fittings. We noticed that the Propane fitting to the regulator is different to the Butane one.

 

A lot of Fuel stations in France will give you the regulator free of charge when you buy the bottle.

 

Hope this helps.

[Brian Kirby]

To be clear, is the regulator you refer to fixed to the wall of the gas locker, or attached to the gas cylinder?

[doonhamer]

Brian,

There are two seperate regulators on flexi pipes running from a Truma Triomatic device fixed to the bulkhead. As I only run with one bottle I haven't paid this device much attention and don't know what its function is, it incorporates a Gaslow contents gauge and is wired to a switch in the cab that appears to provide hot water while on the move and I presume that it is also an automatic change over device.

There is a large sticker on the inside of the bottle locker door that confirms the max pressure to be 30 bar.

Any advice would be appreciated. 

[Brian Kirby]

It seems you have at least most of a Truma Triomatic installation, with probably an auto-changeover between two cylinders, comprising regulators that attatch to eash cylinder, flexible hoses, and a further regulator on the bulkhead that also provided the auto changeover function.  These units have now been withdrawn by Truma and I can't find any archive instructions.

However, what they don't have is Gaslow contents gauges, which rather suggests yours has been "got at".  As I understand the original Truma set-up, the cylinder mounted regulators did only part of the job, with the balance of the pressure regulation being provided by the bulkhead unit. 

Since yours must by now be a fair few years old, ditto the flexibles, I'd suggest, for the relatively small outlay involved, getting a new bulkhead regulator, and a new flexible "pigtail", fitted.  Shouldn't be a problem for any motorhome dealership. 

If, when you visit, they recognise what you have, and still have the spares, the dealer may be able to remove the Gaslow gauge, which won't be much help anyhow, and replace your flexibles and any other time expired bits, so that you can continue using what you have in safety.

What I wouldn't do, however, is connect anything to what you have until your present installation has been inspected.  It is just possible someone has replaced the original cylinder mount regulators with non-Truma items, which could be a bit dodgy!  Funny stuff, gas :-)

[doonhamer]

Brian,

Thanks for the information, you've confirmed my suspicion that I should visit the nearest motorhome dealer before setting off for our winter trip to Portugal.

Merry Xmas and Happy Travelling in 2009 

[fred grant]

narbonnenoel!

 

firtreefred

[Derek Uzzell]

doonhamer;

 

I have Installation/Operating Instructions for Truma's Triomatic system. (Also the related MMM-magazine articles in April 1999 and July 2000.)

 

Triomatic is an automatic regulator switch-over assembly intended for use with two propane gas cylinders. It comprises a central bulkhead-mounted 30mbar 'system' regulator connected by flexible gas-hoses to a pair of medium-pressure regulators, with one of the latter regulators mounted on each of the two gas cylinders.

 

The system regulator (marked with a yellow disk) carries a pressure-gauge - this gauge certainly resembles the Gaslow equivalent product in that it has red and green sectors, but I'd be surprised if yours is actually Gaslow-branded. The gauge provides an indication as to which of the two cylinders is currently providing the gas supply and it can also be used for leak-testing.

 

Each bottle-mounted regulator carries a coloured disk (green disk = the 'operating' regulator, red disk = the 'reserve' regulator). A Triomatic system can be operated with a single gas cylinder rather than two, in which case it is the operating regulator (green disk) that should be attached to the gas cylinder. The operating and reserve regulators should always be attached to the gas cylinders with their coloured disks uppermost and horizontal.

 

Triomatic has the option of a remote indicator to confirm from within the leisure-vehicle which of the two gas cylinders is supplying gas. The indicator is a small black box carrying the legend "truma Triomatic". It has a small red switch plus red and green LEDS. If you've got this option, then there will be a circular pressure-switch (similar in size to the pressure gauge and marked "Druckschalter") on the T-piece connector above the system regulator. It's also possible to fit "Eis-Ex" defrosters for heating the regulators in ultra-cold weather conditions. So, if your system hasn't got the remote indicator I've just mentioned, then it probably has Eis-Ex.

 

You haven't said what type of gas-bottle you have been using till now, but I assume it's a UK one. The simplest way to allow your present system to use a standard 13kg French propane gas container would be to add an 'adapter' to the regulator that you are currently screwing to your UK gas -bottle. Adapters can be obtained in France to convert certain 'foreign' gas-bottle connectors to the French norm. However, as the range of adapters is quite limited, whether a suitable one is available will depend on exactly what your present set-up is.

 

While it would be a pity to discard a fully functional Triomatic system, Brian's suggestion to junk the lot may well be the best way forward, particularly if the gas hoses between the system regulator and the on-bottle regulators haven't been replaced recently. That way you'd start off with a brand-new system guaranteed to be suitable for French gas containers. (I know one UK motorhome dealer who removed a Triomatic system from an imported German-specification/German gas-bottles Hymer, rather than spend time messing about trying to adapt the gas system to UK norms.) If your Triomatic system were to be replaced entirely, you might consider opting for a two-bottle auto-changeover set-up, as the price shouldn't be that much more expensive than for a one-bottle system and it would offer greater convenience. It would be worth you looking in the gas lockers of a few recent vehicles at French motorhome dealers to give you an idea of what's currently being fitted.

 

Don't forget that 13kg French gas bottles and the smaller around-5kg French containers have different connectors. You may also need to bear in mind that the connections on the gas cylinders used in Spain/Portugal, Italy or Germany all differ from the French bottle-connections.

 

I'm sure Narbonne Accessoires will be able to help.

[Brian Kirby]

Last bit of (possibly) useful information: UK butane connector = French propane connector (but not vice versa!).  I do just wonder if your Triomatic regulators might have adaptors fitted to suit UK propane which, if removed, might reveal an existing standard French type propane connector already on the regulator.  However, do first check the flexibles for expiry dates (a remplacer avant ????).  As Derek says, Narbonne, or maybe Masters.

[Derek Uzzell]

doonhamer,

 

Having looked back through your earlier postings, I'm now minded to believe that the Hymer motorhome you refer to is French-registered and already has a gas system that will connect to a French gas-bottle. If that's the case, I'm not 100% sure I really understand what your original question was about.

 

If you were merely asking "Should I replace the existing Triomatic 30mbar regulator that attaches to the gas-bottle with the 37mbar 'domestic' propane-suitable type sold in supermarkets?", then the answer is definitely "NO". (In fact, if you did do this your Hymer's gas system wouldn't work properly.) The Triomatic system is intended for use with propane and all your Hymer's gas appliances will have been optimised for a 30mbar gas pressure.

[doonhamer]

Thank you, I now know what the system is and have downloaded the operating instructions from the Truma site. Before setting off for the winter in Portugal I'll make a visit to Narbonne Accessories.

[Derek Uzzell]

A brief follow-up...

 

doonhamer

 

I think it likely that the flexible hoses between the Triomatic system regulator and the 'on-bottle' regulators will carry a date of manufacture rather than a (normal in France) do-not-use-after-this-date warning. If that's the case, then Truma recommend that such hoses be replaced no later than 5 years after the date of manufacture.

 

I notice that my 2006 Masters Accessoires catalogue carries an advert for "Lyre export Norme DIN 4815 - Lyre aux normes allemandes permettant d'effectuer des montages simples sur tubes rigides." These gas-hoses are offered in various lengths and with several different end-fittings, and I believe this is what you would need to replace Triomatic hoses. I can't find anything similar in the Narbonne Accessoires catalogue, but that doesn't mean they can't get them.