Ukase Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 As an infrequent visitor to this forum I have just picked up on the response by Fiat reported by Andy Stothert in the main thread 8th Dec 2008 5:37PM. Rather than add to the existing threads and risk this posting disappearing off the end of the threads I considered it worthwhile to start a new thread specifically about the Fiat response to the Reversing Judder problem. It pains me to say that to date I see no change in the Fiat response other than further delaying tactics and I detect that Andy senses this also in his posting of 9th Dec 2008 5:51 PM "It isn't yet time for backslapping..." I would be more than pleased to be proved wrong by Fiat action to resolve the issue to everyones satisfaction. What concerns me is that the declared Fiat plan of action, which is at present only verbal, is no different to the action required to meet a normal warranty claim. Fiat have specifically said in Forum postings that their will NOT be a recall so only those who have or will have their vehicles tested by a Fiat dealer and where reversing judder is agreed to be a fault with Fiat, will have the modifications fitted. How is this any different to Fiats declared position over the last year or so. The person who seems to be contacting customers with a case reference is Jamil in Fiat Customer Relations and my discussion with him is that he cannot give any firm information or fix dates other than "Sometime in the next few weeks" or "Our intentions in the New Year". Unfortunately the letter sent out by Emma Toms the Customer Care Director (See posting by Itexuk 18th Dec 2008 7:01 PM) is just more of the same. To the best of my knowledge there has been no formal statement by Fiat (or indeed Peugeot or Citroen) that they recognise that reversing judder is a vehicle design problem and not a "Characteristic" or "Driver Initiated problem". Once again no change in their position. Andy's posting raises more questions than answers and I am surprised that many of the contributors to the forum Thread seem to think that a resolution has been found and will be initiated. With all this in mind the questions that need to be answered by Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen are:- 1. Which vehicles/specifications do the promised modifications relate to and when will the parts and tools be available to the dealers so that work can commence? 2. Will the modifications be covered FOC under warranty even for those vehicles registered with the problem and possibly already out of warranty? 3. Will vehicles that are not at present displaying judder be covered by the modifications under the same terms as 2 above? 4. What action is being considered for all the vehicles already manufactured and at Dealer, Coachbuilder and in "Unsold" storage? 5. Have the modifications already been implemented for vehicles now in production and will these be identified by a change to Model or Mark Number? I look forward to the Fiat response to these questions. KB.
urbanracer Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Good post,Fiat have given people who have complained a letter but nothing comes from Peugeot only a PR man saying they will do a ECU upgrade? are they sure upgrade. I have spoken to people who have had the ECU download and they say no positive effect on the reversing problem and now stalling,rough running and increased MPG. Fiat have tried to give assurances but Peugeot stay away from giving any response on any Forum or by letter.
moonshine Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 Time to call in Watchdog !!!!??? Get them exposed on TV. Good luck. Moonshine :-D
worky Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 hi folks - especially Peugeot Boxer owners sent the following email to Peugeot last week hello I understand that Fiat UK are now contacting customers, who have registered their vehicles as having the judder problem , within the next two weeks by letter. This is to inform them that a plan of action is in place firstly to fix those with a 2.3 engine and then the 3.0ltr models Can I ask when and what are Peugeots plans to contact those of us that have case numbers for the same problem. received a phone call from Customer Care Manager yesterday informing me of Peugeots stance on the judder fix. Apparently, according to Peugeot Technical staff, the juddering only affects a certain type of Boxer engined vehicle - Puma - whatever that is! and only vehicles with a certain VIN number. She told me that as my Starburst 3ltr did not fall into the VIN numbers they had identified mine wasn't affected by any recall. I insisted mine had the judder and she suggested visit to Peugeot dealer to have it roadtested. Just returned from Warners Tewkesbury and in Technicians words " thought van was going to shake to pieces" and in his opinion it wasn't clutch but too high gearing in reverse. He's downloaded engine management info onto laptop and sent that with written report of roadtest to Peugeot Tech Dept. Now have to wait and see what Peugeot say. It looks like the fight ain't over yet!!!
urbanracer Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 How can they quote between certain VIN numbers,they either knew of a problem and decided not to inform those customers or after a certain VIN number the gearbox was modified. But Fiat say they have been working on the problem that Peugeot already knew about and had a fix in place going on new vans being built in the Sevel factory. Where is the truth??
BrianR Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 I should start by saying that I do not have a vehicle affected by this problem. I am suprised that no mention has been made of legal action. I would have thought that this is a prime case for everyone with this problem getting together with a solicitor who is prepared to take the case on a "no win, no fee" basis. Has anyone investigated this possibility?
Brian Kirby Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 worky - 2008-12-19 4:50 PM ..............the juddering only affects a certain type of Boxer engined vehicle - Puma - whatever that is! Puma is the joint Ford/PSA 2.2 litre engine, like wot we have in out Transit based van. It doesn't judder in the Ford, though!
colin Posted December 19, 2008 Posted December 19, 2008 BrianR - 2008-12-19 6:54 PM I should start by saying that I do not have a vehicle affected by this problem. I am suprised that no mention has been made of legal action. I would have thought that this is a prime case for everyone with this problem getting together with a solicitor who is prepared to take the case on a "no win, no fee" basis. Has anyone investigated this possibility? There have been hints that a couple of owners are taking legal action.
Ukase Posted December 21, 2008 Author Posted December 21, 2008 urbanracer - 2008-12-19 5:30 PM But Fiat say they have been working on the problem that Peugeot already knew about and had a fix in place going on new vans being built in the Sevel factory. Where is the truth?? Urbanracer, the truth is that Fiat have sent letters to some complainants with a case reference number telling them that a plan is in action and they will be contacted yet again in the New Year. No details or answers just another delaying tactic? My understanding is that Peugeot have denied that any fix for the Judder is being applied to vehicles at the factory and Fiat refuse to confirm that any modifications are or are not being applied. We have to make of that what we can. KB.
worky Posted December 23, 2008 Posted December 23, 2008 further to my previous post on this thread. have just been contacted by Peugeot dealer who has been authorised by Peugeot to fit new clutch and mass fly wheel to Starburst. has anyone heard of anyone else having this done as a "fix" for judder and what were the results - seem to recall reading somewhere that somebody had
david lloyd Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 worky - 2008-12-23 4:19 PM further to my previous post on this thread. have just been contacted by Peugeot dealer who has been authorised by Peugeot to fit new clutch and mass fly wheel to Starburst. has anyone heard of anyone else having this done as a "fix" for judder and what were the results - seem to recall reading somewhere that somebody had Hi worky Are Peugeot doing this because you clutch/flywheel is suspected to have been damaged by the juddering? If so, and it is replacing like with like, then it seems unlikely to be 'the fix' you are hoping for as that would appear to need a new (lower) reverse gear. Andy Stothert has had all sorts of work done on several occasions now to his Fiat but he still has the judder - simply because the repairs have always put back the same components that were originally used so have not rectified the basic problem. David
worky Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 david lloyd - 2008-12-24 11:30 AM worky - 2008-12-23 4:19 PM further to my previous post on this thread. have just been contacted by Peugeot dealer who has been authorised by Peugeot to fit new clutch and mass fly wheel to Starburst. has anyone heard of anyone else having this done as a "fix" for judder and what were the results - seem to recall reading somewhere that somebody had Hi worky Are Peugeot doing this because you clutch/flywheel is suspected to have been damaged by the juddering? If so, and it is replacing like with like, then it seems unlikely to be 'the fix' you are hoping for as that would appear to need a new (lower) reverse gear. Andy Stothert has had all sorts of work done on several occasions now to his Fiat but he still has the judder - simply because the repairs have always put back the same components that were originally used so have not rectified the basic problem. David hi david I'm not sure why they are doing it and it's definitely not "the fix" I'm looking for however I'm willing to go along with it and have it road tested after and if the judder is still there then it's back to Peugeot
david lloyd Posted December 24, 2008 Posted December 24, 2008 Hi worky Well it's likely to be well into the New Year now before you get it done and I hope it does the trick. In the meantime have a great Christmas. David
Ukase Posted December 31, 2008 Author Posted December 31, 2008 Has anyone received a letter from Fiat detailing when the reversing judder on their vehicle will be fixed? KB
mike 202 Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 Think the letters were being brought by Santa in a Fiat Sleigh drawn by Flying Pink Pigs. But guess that their Sat Nav went wrong and they got lost. Still there is always 2009. Still that is only a few hours away now, so you never know !!!
libby Posted December 31, 2008 Posted December 31, 2008 Sorry to say so, but I do not ever see the problem fixed. I cannot see how any company can afford to meet the vast costs that will arise. There is also the possibility that there will be a change in a company's name resulting in a total avoidance of the issue.
Sundowner Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Hi, I received a letter (dated 30th.Dec) from Emma Toms - Customer Care Director. It states - testing has now been completed in Italy, we shall soon be in receipt of the technical information required, will be in contact with me in March. A Fiat dealer will carry out the modifications and will test the vehicle with myself present to ensure that I am happy with the work carried out. I now feel a lot more positive than I have for the last 9 months, and I am speaking as the biggest pessimist known to mankind !!! Whatever the outcome, I would like to record my grateful thanks to Andy Stothert for working tirelessly on behalf of all of us with this problem My van is an Adria Twin (2.3 litre 6 speed box)
mike 202 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Hi Sundowner, sorry to be cynical but you did not mention which year the Fiat March Falls in. (?)
mike 202 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Further to my March question - Fiat will be in contact with you, does you letter say when the work will be done/completed ?
Melvin Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I recieved my letter 18th December , mine clearly states January, however its Fiat, it WILL change.:-S tell me if I am being a sceptic, but isnt March after the Febuary caravan show, funny that :-(
mike 202 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Melvin that is somethong that I have been saying all along, Fiat just delay. FIRST it was lots of promises so that the October NEC T-shirt campaign was dropped. And guess what the T-shirt was dropped and Fiat given the benefit of any lingering doubts. And NOTHING happened !!! Then lots of promises when the T-shirt campaign looked as though it would be done for the Feb 09 NEC. OH guess what January all will be revealed, the solution published. Now as the Feb NEC is almost upon us and it gets too late to produce T-shirts and show Fiat up for what they are, OUT comes " Well it may be March 09." The whole sorry saga has been going on for close to 2 years and still nothing has been published by Fiat. Some owners are going to run out of warranty soon. NO Andy please get the T-shirts printed, Fiat have had enough time, empty promises, PR guru's working overtime to come up with nothing. I am sure that a bit of pressure on Fiat will make them think again. And I am sure that lots of owners would like a momento of the whole saga, in time they may even become collectors items. Sorry to have a bit of a rant but those who have caused, or perpetuated this problem, Fiat, Dealers, converters need to be made aware that enough is enough.
Wills Wagon Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 My letter from Emma Toms said that the Customer Relations Team will contact me in February with further instructions.
Ukase Posted January 3, 2009 Author Posted January 3, 2009 mike 202 - 2009-01-03 9:53 AM Melvin that is somethong that I have been saying all along, Fiat just delay. FIRST it was lots of promises so that the October NEC T-shirt campaign was dropped. And guess what the T-shirt was dropped and Fiat given the benefit of any lingering doubts. And NOTHING happened !!! Then lots of promises when the T-shirt campaign looked as though it would be done for the Feb 09 NEC. OH guess what January all will be revealed, the solution published. Now as the Feb NEC is almost upon us and it gets too late to produce T-shirts and show Fiat up for what they are, OUT comes " Well it may be March 09." The whole sorry saga has been going on for close to 2 years and still nothing has been published by Fiat. Some owners are going to run out of warranty soon. NO Andy please get the T-shirts printed, Fiat have had enough time, empty promises, PR guru's working overtime to come up with nothing. I am sure that a bit of pressure on Fiat will make them think again. And I am sure that lots of owners would like a momento of the whole saga, in time they may even become collectors items. Sorry to have a bit of a rant but those who have caused, or perpetuated this problem, Fiat, Dealers, converters need to be made aware that enough is enough. Mike, Must say that I totally agree with you, that is why I raised this thread in the first place. As far as Andy Stothert is concerned I feel that we cannot ask him to give any more time to this issue, he has done more than enough and he has other more pressing issues to cope with. Having written to Fiat on 18th December putting the 5 questions at the start of this thread I have received no reply to date and no letter dealing with the Case Reference. I am going to leave a few extra days for them to respond (they will probably use Xmas as an excuse for having not replied) and then phone them for a reply which I will post on this thread. KB
Rayjsj Posted January 10, 2009 Posted January 10, 2009 There still seems to be some owners of X250 based campers who think that this 'Juddering' problem won't have any detrimental affect on them, perhaps they have never had to reverse up any type of incline ? they don't read this (or any other M/H) Forum, or read MMM or any other M/H mags. If they blithely carry on without getting Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen to do the 'Promised' gearbox ratio upgrade and get written proof that it has been done, then their 'pride and joy' will be worth many thousands of pounds less than a similiar one that HAS had it done. The 'Promised' upgrade will only go to those who have registered the fault with their Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen Dealer. If you know someone who owns an X250 M/H that hasn't registered get them to do it quick. Bump, Judder,Bump. :D :D
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.