Gassing attacks in France

[Guest Tony Hunt]

Just noticed in the Caravan club magazine for January page32. Members travelling down to Spain this winter are reminded to be careful and take reasonable precautions to protect yourselves and your possessions. Dont stop overnight at Aires de service- In spite of repeated warnings we still receive complaints of gassing and theft from members who ignore this advice. Dont stop if flagged down by other motorists indicating a problem with your vehicle. Continue on to the next service station or populated area before checking. When stopping for coffee etc, ensure that one member of your party remains with the outfit at all times. Just thought I would raise this issue again as last time I did certain members poo pooed the well meant warning by saying it never happens because theyd never met anybody who had been involved. It does and I have met somebody. Dont let something like this ruin your holiday through being over clever.

[Guest Clive]

Just wondered, does Tony have any connection with dearly missed John or Audrey?

[Guest PeteC]

Saw that yes it does happen - but not only in France/Spain Recently in Nederland we were asked if we were not scared of attack travelling alone They were supprised to hear that we thought Holland was the safest place in €urope Theere are reports on the Italian tourist sites to warnn you of suchh attacks - Particularly in the Suth West of the country

[Guest Tony Hunt]

It happens in parts of scandinavia also. Apparently Eastern european gypsies are the main problem. We all let em in so we gotta put up with the problems they cause. Gypsies everywhere have the same mentality. If they can pinch it and we're stupid enough to let them why pay for it.

[Guest martin]

I've said before that the Caravan Club has a vested interest in whipping up panic about gas and unsafe parking places- they want everyone to stay and pay them for 'safe sites' and are actively canvassing Brussels to ban aires, restplatz and so on: however … I certainly have been waved down on a tight cloverleaf coming off a motorway section near Paris by a gang of thugs, but the scam is all too obvious and on you drive on … Parked in the main public car park in Agde last year gitanes – but might have been kids - broke the driver’s window while we ate with friends late one night, but the dog and Strike Back alarm did their stuff. But hey, that’s happened in this country too. A few sensible precautions and you'll be as safe as anywhere in the UK - a little ethnocentrism always creeps into this topic and seems to distort the perception of the real danger and statistical probability … The precautions need not be expensive, over complicated nor interfere with one's enjoyment of the open road.

[Guest Neal]

I've heard many times of these "gas attacks" over a number of years but have never been able to truely substantiate any of them using a really reliable source. What occurs to me is that, as these are allegedly perpetrated by thieves, gypsies and the like, none of these undesirables are trained anaesthetists and so, how come no-one has ever died? They can fill a motorhome (differing sizes) with gas that renders the occupants (2,3, maybe 6 people?) unconscious for the theft and yet they all recover? I accept that we all need to take as many precautions as possible and be alert at all times but, the gas attack stories leave a lot of unanswered questions (for me, anyway). Regards Neal

[Guest Brian Kirby]

I agree with Neal. I'm far from convinced most of the gas in question hasn't come from bottles of very pleasant red and white liquids that induce deeper than normal sleep. Much less embarrasing to plead gas attack, than admit to being totally comatose through overindulgence! Thieves, on the whole, will go where the pickings are rich and easy. That means, in our case, where the motorhomes congregate reliably - but not in too great numbers. Then they want a quick, easy, escape route. Main road laybys and motorway service areas fit the bill ideally. Therefore avoid these for stops, and ideally avoid them alltogether. Use the less well trodden routes, but avoid stopping in totally isolated areas - where due to size and colour your van will stick out like a sore thumb and may attract unwelcome attention. Try not to stop for the night too near to any of the larger cities, use campsites whenever convenient, check out your chosen stopping place well before dark, to get the feel of the area and its surroundings - and if you don't like it leave, don't get too tired, lock your doors and windows before beddy-bies, and don't go to bed pi**ed. Its not rocket science, and you'd surely do the same in UK. The main problem is getting the right vibes when abroad, but most of the danger signs are there and are remarkably similar. Just believe what your senses are telling you. Sleep tight! Brian

[Guest Tony hunt]

So how do you explain how friends of mine who are totally teatotal had visitors spend ages rifling their van one night on a french motorway and didnt know they had been there till the next morning. The french police told them they were just one of many that summer. Why all this heads up your Ar--s attitude. All Im trying to get across is be careful and take necessary precautions so you dont become one of the statistics. More importantly newcomers to motorhoming who are maybe not so careful as you old hands that know it all will take notice of peoples warnings and stay safe.

[Guest Neal]

Tony, calm down. Nobody is saying ignore safety warnings; far from it. We are saying be extra vigilant. The point I was trying to make is how come all these alleged gas attacks are executed with such precision when, in reality, there are mistakes and accidents that happen in the hands of fully qualified anaesthetists in near-perfect situations (hospitals)? For me, at the moment, it doesn't hang together right. Take care always. Neal

[Guest martin]

Not having been woken up by a thief is no proof of a gas attack - most skilled housebreakers can walk round your house and not wake you! I have yet to see anything approaching scientific evidence of this, though I'm sure it's been tried ... if as some suggest ether is used then there would have been a mighty big explosion from someone's gas fridge by now! If someone has personally suffered a theft where gas was used (not a fiend's friend!) I wish they'd come out and publish the full details so we can all aseess for ourselves the risks by knowing the agent used; by knowing the modus operandi; by knowing the local police reaction; by knowing the simple facts. Those selling alarms have an obvious, vested commercial interest in creating an aura of danger and talking up the fear ... most insurance salesmen only sell you their products on the most basic of emotions - fear and greed! This is a matter of taking a few simple precautions, and understanding the true nature of the risk which I, for one, still find very difficult.

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Tony Yes, please do calm down, I'm not seeking to insult anyone, just expressing my own opinion, which you and others can take or leave as you/they choose. I really cannot explain how occopants of a motorhome can sleep through having their van broken into and the contents rifled through. I don't use autoroute service areas to sleep on, and wouldn't, except in dire emergency. If I did it would have to be with all doors and windows fully closed since I'm a light sleeper, and these areas are generally noisy. I don't, ever, use earplugs - and wouldn't. I don't take sleeping pills etc. Someone moving inside a motorhome makes the vehicle rock, opening the doors makes noise (opening locked doors even more so, even with a key). I'd be awake in a shot! However, apparently, they weren't. So, resort to simple reasoning, if they slept through it, they must have been drugged. Question: how was the gas administered? With all doors, windows and rooflights closed tight and secured (they were, weren't they?), how was the gas actually introduced? On the other hand, if windows etc were left open to aid ventilation (but very unwise in such a place), why didn't the gas simply leak away? Did the thief also shut the door behind him while inside, to prevent loss of gas? Still without waking the occupants? This isn't sleep - it's a coma! You have to be held under an anasthetic, you don't just administer a whopping single dose and it lasts until you've finished whatever you're doing. Also, our burglar would need a gas mask (so he doesn't succumb), as well as his bottle of laughing gas or whatever, and to keep the dose at just the right level to keep your friends asleep without killing them while he works. I don't doubt that they believe they were gassed, I just think they are barking up the wrong tree. I remain convinced that there is some other explanation and, whilst everyone is being misled by the gas explanation, it isn't being identified. Whatever that explanation may be, it has much to do with how people manage to sleep so deeply in such unpleasant places, and why and how the felon manages to gain access without rousing them. Until I know the answers I'll remain a confirmed sceptic, but I'll also continue to avoid sleeping in places I think felons may well be attracted to. That, it seems to me, is a far better way of avoiding burglary, or worse, than an alarm that may or may not work because no one knows what gas it is supposed to detect! After all, what is cheaper and more convenient, a noisy free night on a motorway rest area with a high chance of robbery thrown in, or 10-15 pounds for a quiet night on a campsite with a much reduced chance of robbery? I know where I'm going! Take care Brian

[Guest Mel B]

I must admit that I can get out of our fixed rear bed, climbing over my husbands legs, and probably kneeling on him in the process, go to the toilet compartment, put the light on, use it, flush it and return to bed without waking him! So someone creeping about the 'van very carefully wouldn't necessarily wake him up and no he doesn't get p*ss*d! I think part of the explanation may be that when you are away in your van you are very relaxed, more than likely having had a good fairly active day - walking round tourist attractions, shops, etc, maybe doing a bit of travelling in the process - followed by a nice meal and then go to bed very content, in this case you would more than likely be so tired that you would take more than the usual noises etc to wake up from your slumbers. I sleep very badly and lightly, having to take a low dose sleeping pill each night, even though I am a bad sleeper and the pills are very mild indeed, I can sleep through my husband getting up in the middle of the night, turning the house alarm off (which is noisy!), let the dogs out (one elderly one often needs to go out and ends up barking to wake him) and then come back to bed. I'm sure gassing has been tried, as most things probably have, but haven't actually met anyone who has supposedly 'suffered' such an attack. Until I do we will continue to just be very careful where we pitch up for the night, even on a camp site you are not assured of no trouble, you still have to assess the situation and if something is cheap, ask yourself why! Most of all just be sensible and don't worry unduly, you're there to have a holiday remember.

[Guest Mike Chapman]

This subject arises frequently on both Caravan and Motor Home forums but I cannot ever remember seeing an answer to the questions from a qualified anaesthetist. The nearest came from a qualified pharmacist who doubted that these gas attacks could regularly take place and be effective as described without someone having been killed as a result. From a personal point of view I take the approach that better safe than sorry but I will need more convincing before paying out for a gas attack alarm. I have Smoke and Carbon Monoxide detectors in the van and wonder if either of these are sensitive enough to pick up anaesthetic gasses. Regards, Mike C.

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

A fair while back there was a magazine article reporting that people had been killed during gas-attacks and that, in one instance, everybody in one of those strange 'hotel' double-decker tourist coaches had been anaesthetised while sleeping and all their valuables pinched. The article was in "Motorhome Monthly" however!!!

[Guest RonB]

For those who really want proof or otherwise of gas attacks I suggest contacting the Road Haulage Association. I seem to remember that it was thefts from lorries where this all started.

[Guest RonB]

I meant to add to my rearlier posting that contributors are missing a valuble point when knocking gas detectors. This is that as well as detecting narcotic gases they also detect the very gas that YOU are using if it is leaking, ie Propane and Butane. Ours is also a pest if I am using adhesives but I'm not complaining. They are well worth the money in my view.

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Ron I'm not knocking the alarms, I'm sure they're good. I just have severe doubts about the gas attack storys, and think relying on these alarms as a means of protection against robbery may give rise to a false sense of security. If it ain't gas that is the problem, the alarm won't give protection - unless the burglar is especially flatulent, that is! Regards Brian

[Guest Norma]

I'm intrigued by the idea that the amount of gas needed to knock me out surely should cause an explosion by the frige or other bits and bobs on board! As for the sensitive alarms - I remember an earlier posting regarding the night use of toilets - will those emissions wake up the alarm? And now we have CC taking over Europe to try and ban aires etc and Calor trying to take over Europe and no doubt try to prevent the sale of 'autogas' to us with refillable cylinders. Ahh conspiracy theorys ... Think I'll stay at home and have the house damaged by thugs - at the moment much more of a threat than anything ever happening to the van - touch wood. (2 windows on NYD!)

[Guest Mel B]

Norma Bet you can't beat our having our front walls kicked over just before Christmas 2 years ago! As we have a 1860's former pauper's cottage it was built using 200+ year old bricks and the front walls were done to match ... the cost to rebuild? £3,500!!!! I'm so pleased we had insurance cover although they did try to claim we were under-insured at the time ... but we argued it out and won! We even got the front yard block paved in the process as, when rebuilding the wall, the horrible concrete cracked putting in the foundations. We don't make a habit of claiming but it was nice to get it all done and looking pristine!

[Guest Bob Baker]

First off does gassing happen? Don't kid yourselves - yes it does. Is it common? I don't know but I'm treating it seriously and taking all reasonable precautions. Has the Caravan Club got a vested interest in creating such a myth? come on!

[Guest ian]

gassing. Give me a break. Has anyone wondered just how much gas is required to fill the entire insides of a motorhome, whilst the gas is flowing out of the gas dropouts all over the van, and no one saw these men with massive gas bottles 4ft high with a tube coming off them pushed through an available vent, probably the fridge vent, whilst the engine is running on the pickup they would need to transport the said bottles!!! How could anyone miss them!! AND THE POLICE AND EVERYONE ELSE NEVER SAW ANYTHING!! as i said " Give us a break"!!!

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Has anyone actually suffered one of these attacks, so that they can speak with authority at first hand? Failing that, has anyone spoken to someone who was actually gassed and obtained from them at first hand such details as they were able to give. Yes, yes, I know its difficult when you are unconsious, but how did they feel when they awoke? Raging thirst? Roaring head? Unsteady on their feet? How do they think the gas was administered? Could someone have entered and overcome them while they slept, rather than filling the van with a narcotic? What is the gas that is supposed to have been used? What is the most likely gas? I know a whiff of Sarin puts you to sleep, but that's permanent. Are France and Spain now slowly filling up with motorhomes that contain corpses where the gas dose was a bit much? Where are the people who woke up just before the gas took effect? We need to know!! Regards Brian

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

I believe the methodology of choice is said to involve making a small hole through a leisure-vehicle's plastic window with a portable gas-powered soldering iron or hand drill then squirting in gas (ether?) from an 'engine start'-type aerosol. If this is so, then no unusual equipment, big gas bottles, clambering on the roof, etc. are needed. From a practical point of view, I think it would be quite unnecessary to fill the motorhome with gas to have a worthwhile soporific effect on sleeping occupants. (The criminal's intention will be to reduce the likelihood of sleepers waking up during the burglary, not to perform major surgery on them.) I'm also unconvinced by the argument that, if you introduced gas into a motorhome with its windows and roof-lights closed, the gas would disperse quickly through ventilation outlets. Personally, I don't see why people get so uptight about 'gas attacks', or must have categorical proof that such events occur. (If I can live without knowing whether or not there's a god, I can certainly go motorcaravanning without proof of the existence of gas attacks!) The important thing must be recognition that motorhomes are being broken into during the night and belongings pinched, rather than arguing over the modus operandi. So effective locks on the vehicle's entrance points should be the first priority, coupled with common sense over where you park. If we are to be pragmatic about this, it is surely better to sleep through the burglary and have a nasty surprise in the morning than have a traumatic confrontation in the dark with a determined thief. On that basis, if gas attacks really do happen, one might argue that the criminals are doing the victims a kindness!

[Guest ian]

Can someone give me the telephone number of one of these gassing robbers, coz if its so easy and quick and painless, these guys will definately be able to help me get to sleep when counting sheep doesn't work!! I bet the same people who suffered one of these attacks saw Nessie in Area 51, or perhaps not, they were too sleepy!!