Council tax charge

[nightrider]

Because my local council are not getting in as much money as they did last year or the year before, they have announced that they are to increase this years council tax.

Can anyone tell me where the council think council tax payers are going to get the money from? how many people have had a wage increase and how many have lost their jobs in the last few months?

And why do the council think community charge payers have deep pockets, community charge payers have to trim their spending but not the council.

[BGD]

The basic concept of "cutting out totally uneccessary expenditure" seems anathema for British local Authorities.

 

We live in a small village here in Spain. Couple of thousand inhabitants.

 

 

 

 

Our annual town council tax pays for:

 

All streets washed down/swept 5 mornings per week, by a full-time employee on a little sit-in machine; and who then spends the rest of the day walking around the village, litter-picking.

 

Domestic and commercial rubbish collected 6 nights per week. Yes, every night of the week, around midnight (except Saturday nights and Bank Holidays).

 

Installation and maintenance of all street lighting....repairs done within a day of reporting a bulb out.

 

A well-stocked library, free to all village users, including 10 broadband internet computers also free to all users in the village. Library open 8am to 6pm 5 days a week.

 

Two free 3-day-long fiestas each year, including food, wine and beer, stages and perhaps 10 live music bands. Also fantastic fireworks displays at the end of each fiesta.

 

A Town Hall maintenance department (OK, there's only about 4 of them), who do all electrical, drainage, painting etc work around the village....quickly and effectively.

 

A Village gardener, who works full time all year round water plants, planting, weeding and maintaining all the public spaces and council-provided flower baskets around the village.

 

We've just had dog-poo-bag dispensers and dog-poo bins installed in 4 or 5 locations around the village.

 

A little local Tourist Info centre (OK, one person, but she's really good and is there 5 days a week).

 

A newly completed sort of Community Centre, with activities for all senior citizens, weekly film shows, and 3 or 4 fully equiped multi-use rooms that anyone can book (for free) for any meetings/social groups.

 

Twice a year the Council runs "Learn Basic Spanish" courses which each last for about 6 weeks, 2 hours per week, for all non-Spanish residents, for free.

 

The Town Hall will collect and dispose of (for free) any large or bulky houshold items on a Tuesday in their one multi-use little lorry, so long as you ring or pop in to the Maintenance Department to ask them a couple of days beforehand.

 

There is a Primary school in the next town, to which all village children are taken back and forth by coach (free) from our town square each day (unless the parents wish to drop them off at that school a couple of miles away themselves).

The same is true for Secondary school children, they are also offered a free coach to take them to the school in the next town.

 

Local unemployed people are required, after any period of 6 months on the dole, to report 5 days per week to their Town Hall to be given any odd jobs that might be required, in order to continue to receive benefits. Such jobs include painting old peoples houses (the person has to buy the paint, but the Town Hall supplies all other materials/ladders/scaffolding and labour), helping old/disabled residents in their homes, gardening, litter picking.

 

 

 

Our annual bill for all these services is €152.

 

 

Now, I know that some of the Local Councils money here comes from Regional and Central Government (just as in the UK), but the levels of national taxation (on both incomes, and upon spending) here are substantially lower here than in the UK, so Central Govenment thus has less money to distribute back to local communities.

 

So it ain't rocket science. Local Authorities CAN actually operate cost-effectively, and provide excellent basic services to their community.

 

 

 

 

But of course we don't have an army of Lesbian/Gay community outreach Social Workers and Community Enrichment Officers, nor do we have any Inclusion Researchers, or even a single Youth and Community activity development Co-ordinator. And I've never caught sight of any town Hall publication, leaflet, letter or notice in any language other than Spanish...the language of this country.

And not a single one of our Town Hall staff ever utters the words (even in Spanish): "pro-active" or "outreach", or "one-stop-shop" or "facilitate".

I'm absolutely gutted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nightrider]

If Spain can do it, why can't we do it?? I am not going to put my foot in it again and cause another furore (a previous thread)

But why does this country throw money hand over fist at ethnic minorities and neglect our own people?

My particular town council are ever so good at installing speed and traffic light camera's and employing companies to patrol council carparks to trap unwary motorists who might park up with one wheel on the white lines.

In the town centre there is one public toilet which is the absolute pits and that is not an understatement.

[william1]

I'll tell you why Malcolm - this country is being ran by a bunch of overpaid pollitically correct lunitics.

[BGD]

This'll probably be hugely non-PC, but I'll report it nonetheless, for the purposes of open debate.

 

We met up with some friends recently who were over from the UK on a short holiday. White, middle class, not reactionaries.

The talk turned to politics, and they said that they had decided to support the British National Party from now on, as they had totally lost faith in either of the "big two" parties.

 

We had open discussion about this, and it turns out that a lot of their friends and colleagues back in the UK are talking about doing the same thing. Including, which hugely surprised me, a number of their "non-white" friends too.......who share their view that Britain is being ruined.

 

In order to try to get a balanced view, rather than the hysterical reporting in much of the UK press about the British National Party, I read through, carefully, all of their manifesto and policies.

 

What I read surprised me hugely......as I had previously, completely wrongly as it turns out, mistaken the British National Party as being like the extreme right-wing, revolting cretins who call themselves the "National Front" because of the way the Tory and Labour press skew things.

But I discovered that the British National Party is a bona fide, proper formed and governed, British Political party, pledged to the Parliamentary process; and totally rejects anyone from the NF and all that those thugs stand for.

 

Here are the actual policies. Not what you may have heard, but their actual policies:

 

 

 

British National Party Policies.

 

HEALTH

Committed to a free, fully funded National Health Service for all British citizens.

Boosting NHS bed numbers and slashing unnecessary bureaucracy.

Replacing 100,000 NHS bureaucrats with British-recruited and trained NHS Doctors, Nurses, and Dentists.

Addressing front line staff low pay, to encourage staff retention.

No money to be given in foreign aid while our own hospitals are short of beds and the staff to run them.

More emphasis placed on healthy living with greater education of sickness prevention through physical exercise, a healthier environment and improved diets.

Hospital cleaning to be brought back “in-house”.

Cease all “Private Finance Initiatives” in the NHS.

 

ENERGY &TRANSPORT

Develop renewable energy sources such as off-shore windfarms, wave, tidal and solar energy.

Investigate the feasibility of cutting edge, intrinsically safe fast-breeder nuclear energy production.

Increased investment in Britain’s public transport system.

Invest in national mag-lev high speed (300mph plus) intercity railway system.

Re-nationalise the railways system (trains and tracks) under one controlling body.

Provision of greater incentives to use rail and bus transport instead of private cars.

Road Fuel tax to be cut.

Road Fund Licence system to be abolished.

“Congestion Charge” taxes to be scrapped.

Motorway speed limits to be raised.

Hidden speed cameras to be banned.

Encourage the development and use of cleaner transport fuels such as bio-diesel and hydrogen.

Allow building of privately funded airport on reclaimed land in Thames estuary to reduce pressure on, and need to further expand, other South East airports.

 

ENVIRONMENT

Enforce standards to curb practices, whether by business or the individual, which cause environmental damage.

In towns, work to replace the 1960s-style architecture with traditional local styles and materials; and ensure that developments take place on a more human scale.

All new housing to be built on derelict “brown” land, no more on green land.

Remove overhead power lines from beauty spots, and instead bury the cables underground.

Encourage the most rapid and extensive switchover possible to organic and low-fossil-fuel farming techniques.

Ban the slaughter of any animals without pre-stunning; and ban the sale in Britain of any non pre-stunned meat products.

Eliminate factory-farming of livestock.

 

PENSIONERS

Ensure that all our old folk are able to live in comfortable homes, and will restore the earnings link with pensions.

Elderly people should not have to sell their homes to pay for care.

 

NORTHERN IRELAND

End all attempts to force the people of Northern Ireland to accept foreign interference in their affairs.

No one with links to a terrorist organisation that refuses to lay down its arms to be allowed to enter government.

Abolish state-supported segregation in education.

A wish to end the conflict in Ireland by welcoming Eire as well as Ulster as equal partners in a federation of the nations of the British Isles.

 

DEFENCE

Guiding Policy: Nuclear Armed neutrality.

Boost Britain’s armed forces to ensure that they are able to deal with any emergency, and defend our homeland and our independence.

Maintain independent nuclear deterrent.

Britain’s weapons and armoury to be produced in Britain.

Bring our troops back from Iraq, Afghanistan, Germany.

Withdraw from NATO membership (and costs).

Close all foreign military bases on British soil, and refuse to risk British lives in meddling in parts of the world where no British interests are at stake.

Restore national service for young people, with the option of civil or military service.

Preserve and restore our historic County Regiments.

 

FOREIGN AFFAIRS

Relations should be determined by the protection of our own national interest and not by our like or dislike of other nations’ internal politics.

No quarrel with any nation that does not threaten British interests.

Maintain independent foreign policy of our own, not subservience to the USA, the ‘international community’, or any other country.

Link foreign aid with our voluntary resettlement policy: those nations taking significant numbers of people back to their homelands will need cash to help absorb those returning.

The billions of pounds saved every year by this policy will be reallocated to vital services in Britain.

 

 

DEMOCRACY

British Parliament not to be subservient to any overseas authority.

Introduce an English Parliament within the United Kingdom; only English MP’s to vote on matters affecting only England.

Power should be devolved to the lowest level possible so that local communities can make decisions which affect them.

Introduce a system of Citizen Referenda, whose outcomes are binding upon Parliament.

Abolish “Anti-Discrimination” laws where they prevent people from making a free choice.

Remove legal curbs on freedom of speech; Common Law provisions against incitement to violence to be the only curb on freedom of expression.

Implement a Bill of Rights guaranteeing fundamental freedoms to the British people.

Abolish Identity Cards, intrusive surveillance, and the retention of DNA samples against innocent persons.

 

IMMIGRATION

Immediate halt to all further immigration, except on “Essential Skills” exception basis.

Immediate deportation of convicted criminals who are not British Citizens; and illegal immigrants.

Introduction of a system of voluntary resettlement whereby those immigrants who are legally here will be afforded the opportunity to return to their lands of origin assisted by a generous financial incentives both for the individuals and for the destination countries in question.

Abolish ‘positive discrimination’ schemes.

No acceptance of overseas ‘asylum seekers’ in circumstances where they could have claimed “asylum” in some other safe country on their way to arrival in Britain.

 

EUROPEAN UNION

Britain to withdraw from the European Union.

The £43 million per day net EU contribution from Britain to be used instead fund projects and investment in Britain.

Recently arrived Eastern European Nationals presently in Britain through “EU rights” to be repatriated.

Aim towards greater national self-sufficiency, and to work to restore Britain’s family and trading ties with USA, Australia, Canada and New Zealand.

Trade with the rest of the world as and when it benefits us.

 

LAW AND ORDER

Free the police and courts from the Politically Correct straitjacket that is stopping them from doing their jobs properly.

The ‘rights’ of criminals to be firmly replaced by the rights of victims, and the right of innocent people not to become victims.

Re-introduction of corporal punishment for petty criminals and vandals.

Restoration of capital punishment for paedophiles, terrorists and murderers as an option for judges in cases where their guilt is proven beyond dispute, as by DNA evidence or being caught red-handed.

Prisons to be more austere, and criminals to serve their full Court sentence.

Electronically tagged “chain gangs” to be used for community-useful projects.

Automatic prison sentences for criminal offence repeat offenders.

Victims of crime to have full legal freedom to defend themselves and their property.

Joint custody of children to be the norm in divorce cases.

Grant anonymity to all those accused of a crime, until/unless convicted.

 

INDUSTRY

Selective exclusion of foreign-made goods from British markets and the reduction of foreign imports.

Ensure that our manufactured goods are, wherever possible, produced in British factories, employing British workers.

Restore our economy and land to British ownership.

Preference in the job market to be given to native Britons.

Break up the socially, economically and politically damaging monopolies now being established by the supermarket giants.

Give British workers a stake in the success and prosperity of the enterprises whose profits their labour creates by encouraging worker shareholder and co-operative schemes.

Britain’s farming industry to be encouraged to produce a much greater part of the nation’s need in food products.

Framing priority switched from quantity to quality, as we move from competing in a global economy to maximum self-sufficiency for Britain.

Require supermarkets to source a steadily increasing proportion of their food products from British farms.

Restoration of Britain’s fishing industry with the re-imposition of the former exclusion zones around our coast.

Re-nationalise monopoly national utilities and services, with compensation only for individual shareholders and pension funds.

 

EDUCATION

Remove the ‘trendy’ teaching methods that have made Britain one of the most poorly educated nations in Europe and return to traditional teaching methods.

Re-introduce traditional, rigorous examinations such as O-levels.

Re-introduce Grammar schools, with entrance examinations at ages 11 and 13.

Reverse the closures of Special Needs schools.

End the practice of “Politically Correct” indoctrination, re-introduce daily Christian Assemblies and competitive sports.

Restore school discipline, including corporal punishment.

Ensure all students are literate and numerate, and are taught British history.

Give authority back to teachers.

Ensure the wearing of school uniforms.

Improve school food, to be sourced from local suppliers wherever possible.

Abolish fees and restore full grants to University students studying proper subjects.

Give home-schooling parents tax-breaks or their fair share of the Education budget.

Introduce a compulsory one year Community Award scheme for all school leavers to teach them work ethics and social and community values.

Far greater emphasis on training young people in the industrial and technological skills necessary in the modern world.

 

TAXATION

Increase tax-free earnings income tax threshold to £15,000.

Re-introduced Married Man’s income tax allowance.

Increase Inheritance Tax threshold to £1 million.

Increase taxes on Companies which outsource work abroad.

Reduce Local Council Tax by 50%.

Abolish taxation/charges upon the collection of household domestic rubbish.

 

WELFARE & HOUSING

All cash benefits and social housing to be available only to British citizens.

Introduce a system of workfare for anyone on unemployment benefit for more than 6 months, with compulsory work and training in exchange for decent benefit payments.

Length of residency in an area to be the key criteria for allocation of Council Housing.

Preserve the “Right to buy” of Council house tenants, but all revenues obtained to be used to construct more Council housing.

Take all commercially-privatised social housing stock back under Council ownership.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………….

 

 

 

Now, there are a number of them that I would debate, but I have to say that I can now see why the British National Party is apparently the fastest growing party in the UK now, and why Labour and the Tories are totally hysterical about criticising them, for fear of losing their hold on power.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[omidknight]

Sounds great Bruce

 

thanks

[william1]

Seems some good things in there.

[nightrider]

I would say that modern day Britain is a powder keg waiting for someone to light the fuse, I am not going to be drawn into a political debate as my views are pretty strong.

So I will confine my comments and thoughts to what my local council is doing, erecting speed camera's behind huge road signs with no prior warnings, sending council officials round to council house tenants telling them to tidy up or cut overgrowing hedges on pain of a stiff penalty.

A lot of the council tenants are elderly widows who cannot cope with a big garden, the council is really really scraping the barrel.

The BNP are picking up recruits on a daily basis and getting stronger and stronger.

[william1]

knight of the road - 2009-01-10 7:54 PM

I think that the fuse will be lit in the very near future.

I would say that modern day Britain is a powder keg waiting for someone to light the fuse, I am not going to be drawn into a political debate as my views are pretty strong.

So I will confine my comments and thoughts to what my local council is doing, erecting speed camera's behind huge road signs with no prior warnings, sending council officials round to council house tenants telling them to tidy up or cut overgrowing hedges on pain of a stiff penalty.

A lot of the council tenants are elderly widows who cannot cope with a big garden, the council is really really scraping the barrel.

The BNP are picking up recruits on a daily basis and getting stronger and stronger.

[nightrider]

Bruce,

You say you live in Spain, do you fulltime in a motorhome or do you live in a bought or rented bricks and mortar? Are you happily retired or do you have a job?

About 15 years ago I had the opportunity of buying into a farm in France with my cousin and converting the place into holiday lets but due to family committments, couldn't take the offer on, in hindsight I wish I would have, Britain has a lot going for it, unfortunately it has its downside too.

[colin]

BGD - 2009-01-10 7:09 PM

 

This'll probably be hugely non-PC, but I'll report it nonetheless, for the purposes of open debate.

 

We met up with some friends recently who were over from the UK on a short holiday. White, middle class, not reactionaries.

The talk turned to politics, and they said that they had decided to support the British National Party from now on, as they had totally lost faith in either of the "big two" parties.

 

We had open discussion about this, and it turns out that a lot of their friends and colleagues back in the UK are talking about doing the same thing. Including, which hugely surprised me, a number of their "non-white" friends too.......who share their view that Britain is being ruined.

 

In order to try to get a balanced view, rather than the hysterical reporting in much of the UK press about the British National Party, I read through, carefully, all of their manifesto and policies.

 

What I read surprised me hugely......as I had previously, completely wrongly as it turns out, mistaken the British National Party as being like the extreme right-wing, revolting cretins who call themselves the "National Front" because of the way the Tory and Labour press skew things.

But I discovered that the British National Party is a bona fide, proper formed and governed, British Political party, pledged to the Parliamentary process; and totally rejects anyone from the NF and all that those thugs stand for.

 

Here are the actual policies. Not what you may have heard, but their actual policies:

 

 

The BNP is gaining a lot of support, BUT, it's all very well reading their propaganda, on the streets it's a differant story.

[bob b]

If the British National Party were given more air time on TV and radio and newsprint, I'm sure they would have a lot more support. Whenever I've heard a BNP spokesperson being interviewed, they are attacked before their reply is fully made. Dimbleby is one of the worst offenders.

The major parties seem to have similar manifestos it seems to me and have a shock coming. Will the 'worm' turn on the next general election ?

 

[GJH]

knight of the road - 2009-01-10 4:01 PM

 

Because my local council are not getting in as much money as they did last year or the year before, they have announced that they are to increase this years council tax.

Can anyone tell me where the council think council tax payers are going to get the money from? how many people have had a wage increase and how many have lost their jobs in the last few months?

And why do the council think community charge payers have deep pockets, community charge payers have to trim their spending but not the council.

This thread seems to be going a bit off the original point.

 

Just to get back onto the main subject, Malcolm, which council is it?

 

An increase part way through a tax year (especially so late in the financial year) is very unusual. Have the council issued a report giving all the reasons behind the increase and is it available on-line?

 

Graham

[BGD]

Colin - I have no evidence to support or negate your view, only a few conversations with a few people who live there in the UK.....so it would be impossible for me to extrapolate what I've heard to be representative pf the whole electorate of the UK.

 

In just the same way I guess, as it would be foolish of you to conclude that whatever you have heard "on the streets" in your locality is necessarily representative of the whole electorate of the UK.

 

My point was simply that the actual policies of the British National Party were, when I bothered to actually read them, very very different from the "Demonisation" that they are tarred with by the two, big, political parties who seem terrified that their comfortable control of the country is finally at real risk.....and who of course control the media between them.

For 100 years each has been comfortable that "it's them or us this time round, and if it's them now, it'll be us again in a few years".

 

Thye seem to have fiddled for decades now, while their Rome burned in front of them.

[BGD]

Just noticed this on the news..............

 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090110/tuk-council-boss-axed-in-oap-scandal-45dbed5.html

 

Fortunately, we don't have such a Public Sector non-job as a "Head of Neighbourhood and Strategic Housing" at our local village council here in Spain.

Fortunate both because the total annual cost to local taxpayers who have to pay for this non-job in Norwich will have been of the order of maybe 100,000 pounds. And also because the non-job holder has been finally fired for kicking out OAP's from their homes so that she, her partner, and others in her own Council department can then buy up the properties on the cheap.

Nice.

And the Council didn't notice any of this.

 

[Patricia]

Bruce getting back to your earlier comments about the great value you derive from your Spanish council tax. Is this the only tax associated with your property that you have to pay? It sounds remarkably good value.

 

French housing taxes are dearer than that: building €231; inhabitants €247; rubbish disposal €80 making a grand total of €558. Even at the present euro rate this is way under half of what I have to pay in the UK although vastly more than you pay. Unfortunately I don't know what benefits the local inhabitants get from this but I will try to find out.

[nightrider]

GJH - 2009-01-10 11:00 PM

 

knight of the road - 2009-01-10 4:01 PM

 

Because my local council are not getting in as much money as they did last year or the year before, they have announced that they are to increase this years council tax.

Can anyone tell me where the council think council tax payers are going to get the money from? how many people have had a wage increase and how many have lost their jobs in the last few months?

And why do the council think community charge payers have deep pockets, community charge payers have to trim their spending but not the council.

This thread seems to be going a bit off the original point.

 

Just to get back onto the main subject, Malcolm, which council is it?

 

An increase part way through a tax year (especially so late in the financial year) is very unusual. Have the council issued a report giving all the reasons behind the increase and is it available on-line?

 

Graham

 

Graham,

What the council are actually doing is feeding to the public that they MIGHT have to put up the council tax which is a softener or a pre-warning to aclimatise rate payers when they actually do raise the tax.

They are forever publishing in the local rag how much revenue they are losing from closed down shops, pubs and other businesses, the local shopping area just down the road from me is a ghost town apart from Asda.

Bury council have just been hauled over the coals by the unions representing council employee's for illegally sending out notices of dismissal to council employee's if they do not accept new terms of employment on lower pay, the notices have now been withdrawn to be rehashed again.

[nightrider]

BGD - 2009-01-10 11:25 PM

 

Just noticed this on the news..............

 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090110/tuk-council-boss-axed-in-oap-scandal-45dbed5.html

 

Fortunately, we don't have such a Public Sector non-job as a "Head of Neighbourhood and Strategic Housing" at our local village council here in Spain.

Fortunate both because the total annual cost to local taxpayers who have to pay for this non-job in Norwich will have been of the order of maybe 100,000 pounds. And also because the non-job holder has been finally fired for kicking out OAP's from their homes so that she, her partner, and others in her own Council department can then buy up the properties on the cheap.

Nice.

And the Council didn't notice any of this.

 

Bruce,

I have read that particular story about OAP's being kicked out of their homes so that council employee's could move in,

I have always said that within the town halls there is an unwritten rule that town hall employee's look after themselves to the detriment of the general public Ie; certain high quality council estates, tenancies are granted to council employee's and that those estates are looked after better than the lower market type council estates for the Joe Blogs type tenant.

[GJH]

knight of the road - 2009-01-11 12:35 AM

 

BGD - 2009-01-10 11:25 PM

 

Just noticed this on the news..............

 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090110/tuk-council-boss-axed-in-oap-scandal-45dbed5.html

 

Fortunately, we don't have such a Public Sector non-job as a "Head of Neighbourhood and Strategic Housing" at our local village council here in Spain.

Fortunate both because the total annual cost to local taxpayers who have to pay for this non-job in Norwich will have been of the order of maybe 100,000 pounds. And also because the non-job holder has been finally fired for kicking out OAP's from their homes so that she, her partner, and others in her own Council department can then buy up the properties on the cheap.

Nice.

And the Council didn't notice any of this.

 

Bruce,

I have read that particular story about OAP's being kicked out of their homes so that council employee's could move in,

I have always said that within the town halls there is an unwritten rule that town hall employee's look after themselves to the detriment of the general public Ie; certain high quality council estates, tenancies are granted to council employee's and that those estates are looked after better than the lower market type council estates for the Joe Blogs type tenant.

What happened in Norwich was disgusting.

 

However, having worked for nearly 36 years in local government I can assure you that my experience is that such cases are very much in the minority and rightly stamped upon when discovered.

 

I never experienced any generality of town hall employees looking after themselves to the detriment of the public. I would recommend that anyone coming across such occurences should report them straight away to the Audit Commission and to the local press/radio.

 

Graham

[GJH]

knight of the road - 2009-01-11 12:24 AM

Graham,

What the council are actually doing is feeding to the public that they MIGHT have to put up the council tax which is a softener or a pre-warning to aclimatise rate payers when they actually do raise the tax.

They are forever publishing in the local rag how much revenue they are losing from closed down shops, pubs and other businesses, the local shopping area just down the road from me is a ghost town apart from Asda.

Bury council have just been hauled over the coals by the unions representing council employee's for illegally sending out notices of dismissal to council employee's if they do not accept new terms of employment on lower pay, the notices have now been withdrawn to be rehashed again.

Thanks for the clarification Malcolm.

 

I'm somewhat surprised at loss of revenue from business, as business rates are passed straight on to the government rather than being available to the council which collects them. Maybe the shops are owned by the council so loss of revenue is in rents they are no longer receiving.

 

Having looked on the Bury Council web site I see that the problem with their employees results from Job Evaluation. This is something which all councils throughout the country have been going through for several years and which many have c*cked up (I have personal experience of that).

 

You may be interested to consider, though, that the processof Job Evaluation is an expensive one in terms of resources (which obviously comes down to cash in the final analysis). Councils throughout the country have been made to undertake those exercises but there is no requirement for private companies to do so. One expense which councils - and, therefore, taxpayers - have to bear whether they like it or not.

 

Graham

[BGD]

Patricia - 2009-01-10 11:46 PM

 

Bruce getting back to your earlier comments about the great value you derive from your Spanish council tax. Is this the only tax associated with your property that you have to pay? It sounds remarkably good value.

 

French housing taxes are dearer than that: building €231; inhabitants €247; rubbish disposal €80 making a grand total of €558. Even at the present euro rate this is way under half of what I have to pay in the UK although vastly more than you pay. Unfortunately I don't know what benefits the local inhabitants get from this but I will try to find out.

 

Pat - Yes.

 

"IBI" (Impuestos Buenes Inmobiliares) tax is the only local tax on housing.

 

It is set by your local Council.

To get a closer comparison I should mention that our total €152 annual charge is split between "rubbish tax" (€52) and everything else (€100).

The reason is that Spain is quite "Green", and the Government and local Councils want people to understand how much of their annual IBI tax goes specifically towards disposing of rubbish.

This €52 rubbish tax pays for both the nightly collections from outside your house, and also for the emptying of the big communal underground recycling bins dotted around the village (separate bins for paper, plastic, glass, and "green waste" (vegetation).

 

I think that our local tax is unusually low....I have heard of others paying €200, or even €300 per year in other towns for a similar 3/4 bedorrm house with garage...perhaps even more if you have a very big, very expensive villa with acres of land.

But nonetheless, it sounds like only a tiny fraction of what households in the UK get charged.

 

I should also mention that the Spanish vehicle tax is the one other thing that the local council collects here......your vehicle is registered to your local area, and you pay them the annual charge on it...... so that will also be money that goes to your local council, but then comes straight back to you in terms of local services provided by them (like repairs to any roads/footpaths in your area).

The latest annual charge for my car was €37; and for my motorbike €8.

[BGD]

Graham - "What happened in Norwich was disgusting.

 

However, having worked for nearly 36 years in local government I can assure you that my experience is that such cases are very much in the minority and rightly stamped upon when discovered.

 

I never experienced any generality of town hall employees looking after themselves to the detriment of the public. I would recommend that anyone coming across such occurences should report them straight away to the Audit Commission and to the local press/radio."

 

 

Graham, yes I do take your point that there will be a few bda apples in any large organisation.

But in this case it sounds as though the entire Housing Department, or at least a substantial part of it, was just completely corrupt.

 

And I hope you are prepared to accept that there must be at least some small element of "we help each other 'cos we're on the same team" about Local Government....the odd phone call, the private recommendation, the nod and wink to help with applications/allocations etc.....as this is simply human nature.

It's also true of private sector organisations.....but within a private sector company such things are generally completely legal, a private company can do what it likes so long as it stays within the laws of corporate governance.

But that's not true of the Public Sector, where every single pound that they are using, eating, burning, squandering (insert word depending upon ones personal viewpoint) is taken by force of law from taxpayers.

 

I'm afraid that I don't share your view that in general, Public Sector and Local Authorities don't feather their own nests at the expense of the taxpayers who pay for everything they do.

Was it absolutely essential to have those new desks? Those potted planst? That new computer system? Those carpets? That air conditioning?

That profligate sick pay scheme? Quite so many "Outreach" non-jobs?

Quite so many paid holidays? Those lovely new matching chairs in the meeting room? That wonderful staff restaurant?

That non-funded (and thus taxpayer funded) copper-bottomed Rolls-Royce of a pension scheme?

Etc, etc.

 

In short, I think that Government exists to Govern. Local Authorities are no different.

They don't see or grasp where the money comes from, but they believe that they are doing something good and higely necessary by spending it on themselves and growing bigger and more bloated.

 

Just my personal view.

 

 

 

 

[colin]

BGD - 2009-01-10 11:08 PM

My point was simply that the actual policies of the British National Party were, when I bothered to actually read them, very very different from the "Demonisation" that they are tarred with by the two, big, political parties who seem terrified that their comfortable control of the country is finally at real risk.....and who of course control the media between them.

For 100 years each has been comfortable that "it's them or us this time round, and if it's them now, it'll be us again in a few years".

 

Thye seem to have fiddled for decades now, while their Rome burned in front of them.

 

I wouldn't disagree about the main political party's needing a kick up the @rse, but you need to reread BNP policies with a more cynical eye, they combine a high degree of nationalism with an equaly high degree of socialism, nuf said there I think.

Lets turn it around and look at your own case, I'm guessing both you and sparkle where born in UK? if there was a National Party Espania you would be needing to watch your backs, just one speeding ticket now or in past and it's goodbye Spain hello UK.

[nightrider]

I have actually seen the unofficial nod,wink leave it up to me system work where a council official, town hall worker has had a word with a certain person and miracles have happened regarding a council house tenancy on a particularly well looked after council estate.

 

[malc d]

BGD - 2009-01-10 11:25 PM

 

Just noticed this on the news..............

 

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20090110/tuk-council-boss-axed-in-oap-scandal-45dbed5.html

 

Fortunately, we don't have such a Public Sector non-job as a "Head of Neighbourhood and Strategic Housing" at our local village council here in Spain.

Fortunate both because the total annual cost to local taxpayers who have to pay for this non-job in Norwich will have been of the order of maybe 100,000 pounds. And also because the non-job holder has been finally fired for kicking out OAP's from their homes so that she, her partner, and others in her own Council department can then buy up the properties on the cheap.

Nice.

And the Council didn't notice any of this.

 

 

 

Having read up a bit on this story, it seems that the IJM ( Invented Job Manager) was on a salary of £52000.

The old folk were told that the properties were going to be demolished so they had to move out.

The property was then advertised on the councils intranet, and she, her boyfriend, and a number of other council members then moved in on low rents.

(Her own rent was said to be below £50 per week).

 

 

I just wonder if any other councils are now nervously investigating their own housing departments.

 

 

:-(