Guest JudgeMental Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Meadows Engine - 2009-02-20 4:42 PM I contacted Murvi today and asked the question ,is it because its a Murvi or is it because its a Panel van conversion and their reply was , because its a panel van. They are happy for me to quote them on that. Fiat are unable to tell from the chassis number that it has been converted and so it is excluded. Even it apears when registered by their agents as a Motor Caravan. This is wrong according to Derek and I know who I believe. He has explained that to the best of his knowledge and at length that other van based campers ARE included in Fiat “camper” scheme. So it’s obviously Murvi at fault here, I am surprised you believe everything they throw at you. You still seem incapable of actually stating what you are missing with your warranty so can only conclude you haven’t a clue. Caveat emptor always applies and is your personal responsibility no one else’s. Buy in haste repent at leisure I'm afraid*-) To be honest reading latest juddering thread you have more to worry about by choosing a Fiat in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japhil Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 We spoke to th Fiat customer service manger at the NEC yesterday about Camper assist,and judder gate. As for Camper assist if your van is bought from a UK Motor home dealer. Then you are covered. If you have bought and imported your M/home then it is covered as a commercial vehicle. That was our understanding. As for Trigano Tributes we Know that they are definitely covered as we have one and had to call camper assist last September hhilst on holidays in France when our rear near side wheel locked up after the rear brake shoes failed and broke loose within the brake drum whilst travelling at 50mph. Luckily for us we were just 200m from a campsite and managed to limp on to site. On contact with Fiat camper assist a Recovery vehicle was dispatched and we and the tribby loaded on to back of recovery vehicle and taken to a Fiat dealer.. the result was a complete replacement of the rear wheel assembly. at no cost to ourselves . I know of 3 others that have used camper assist and had no problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Engine Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Ja&phil - Now I really am puzzeld! My Fiat is a UK vehicle from a UK main dealer via a motorhome dealer of 25 years standing. After recieving contradicting answers from various Fiat customer service personel I asked for some one from their Slough HQ to ring me back and clarify the situation. Susan O'Riordan from at Fiat Slough rang me back and stated that my Motorhome was not entitled to the camper scheme because it was based on the van not the chassis cab and that they, Fiat would only recognise motorhomes based on the van as commercial vehicles which were therfore excluded. There was no exception to this rule based on individual manufacturers mentioned, and I was left in no doubt that it was applicable to all van based motorhomes. It will be interesting to hear what people are told at the show, Autosleepers who use Peugeot tell me whilst they don't have a simlar scheme they still treat all there Motorhomes equally regardless of the base used which of course is just how it should be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
japhil Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Looks. like Fiat do not know thier left from right. I think i will drop an email to Fiat customer service and see what the come back with as a reply. It could be some of thier staff are not upto date or understand the products (camper assist) terms and conditions That they provide !!!!!!!!OR BETTER STILL GET THEM TO POST A REPLY THEMSELVES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 JohnA suggestion. Get yourself a Trigano Tribute brochure, and see if it says Camper Assist is included with that van. If it is, take a copy of the relevant part, write (not e-mail or phone) Fiat customer services, with a photograph of your Murvi, and ask them why, if the Tribute is covered, you keep being told that the cover is not available for panel van conversions.However, I am still struggling a bit to understand what, apart from the extended breakdown cover, you don't already have from your Fiat warranty. For example, the instance quoted above, of a rear wheel seizing, would have been remedied under the standard, plain vanilla, Fiat warranty. It did not require Camper Assist. As I stated earlier, it seems the cover can be bought as an extra for £80 per year: however breakdown cover via your insurer would cost less and give greater benefits, so would appear better value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Engine Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 I apologise that my posts so far have lead you to an incorrect conclusion, please put it down to my forum inexperience. The content of my warrenty has never been under dispute and having been sent by Fiat details of both the RAC and the AA schemes operated by them I am well aware of their content. My concern is and always has been that owners of X/250 Fiat Ducato Motorhomes should receive equal treatment, which is not the current situation. I get the feeling from your comments that you may not agree, and that’s OK, perhaps you may look at it differently if your Motorhome was van based. Regarding your comments on Murvi, unless you know something I don’t, (and if so, please let us all know), I feel they are misplaced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losos Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Meadows Engine - 2009-02-19 9:35 PM mines a 3ltr auto so fingers crossed! That's the engine / gearbox I was considering but seems the autobox is still fairly new and therefore not tested by a reliable sample size. Having being a 'guinea pig' on other products in the past and caught up in the 'pre-production' thing I don't want to be an unpaid test driver for Fiat.When will you be taking delivery??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Engine Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Brian Kirby – Thank you for your Trigano comments I will follow this suggestion up. It just grated on me that having purchased a Fiat Ducato MotorHome I was sidelined into a commercial category. But now this thread has revealed that this is far from a regular situation. I am away for a short while but will follow this up upon my return John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losos Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 JudgeMental - 2009-02-20 7:09 PM I am surprised you believe everything they throw at you. ........................................................To be honest reading latest juddering thread you have more to worry about by choosing a Fiat in the first place. I know that (first part) you were not talking to me, but I was skeptical when they said they had had no problems with Fiat, just sounded a bit too much like 'sales talk' On the second bit, well that's the opinion I'm comming too as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Engine Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 Losos - I had it about two weeks ago, as they say watch this space I’m giving it a test outing shortly.. Although euroserve (?) seems to be getting good results with the auto in his hire fleet which gives hope, but as you say its early days. The Murvi Morello is worthy of consideration, as I said this is my second and its only the underpinning that gives any room for concern . Goes without saying that I have no other connection with this firm John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CAB Posted February 21, 2009 Share Posted February 21, 2009 I also have a Ducato LWB HT panel van conversion. Will be at the NEC Sunday and will try to get an answer as to whether or not my conversion is eligible for the extended services. On their website http://www.fiatcamper.com/services.php the illustration apears to show a panel van conversion! Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 To try to obtain a definitive answer on this I decided to telephone Fiat Camper Services in Italy. I spoke to 'Mario' and, to check the accuracy of John's (Meadow Engine's) original statement - that "Fiat High Tops are not Motorhomes!" - I asked him first if ALL motorhomes based on Fiat Ducato X/250 panel-vans were ineligible for the Fiat Camper Assistance scheme. Mario explained that motorcaravan manufacturers (he quoted Auto-Trail, Burstner, Swift and Trigano as examples) normally ordered Ducato chassis with Fiat Camper Assistance as part of the purchase-package. In such cases the 'chassis format' was irrelevant. If (say) Swift ordered a standard-height-floor chassis-cab on which to build a Sundance model, a low-floor chassis-cab to become a Bolero, a cab/Al-Ko chassis for a Kon-Tiki, or a panel-van to convert into a Mondial, all these Ducato bases would be shown in Fiat's records as being destined for motorhome construction and be eligible for Fiat Camper Assistance. Unprompted by me, Mario said that an exception to this general rule might involve motorhome converters who built small numbers of bespoke vehicles (perhaps using chassis from several different makers) who found it more convenient, or financially more attractive, to obtain their Ducato base-vehicles from a Fiat commercial dealership as and when the chassis were needed. In such instances, as those chassis would have been defined in Fiat records as 'commercial', they would not be eligible for Fiat Camper Assistance when converted to motorhomes. Again, it would not be relevant whether such 'commercial' Ducatos were panel-vans or alternative chassis types. This seems to be the position with Murvi - the Ducato panel-vans used by Murvi apparently exit the Fiat factory with no indication in Fiat's records that they will eventually become motorhomes and, consequently, there is no 'tag' linking them to the Fiat Camper Assistance scheme. Even when Murvi have converted the vehicles into motorhomes, there is no mechanism to change Fiat's records so that Fiat Camper Assistance applies to them - the vehicles begin life as 'commercial' vans and that's how they will stay. That a Murvi Ducato panel-van conversion can be UK-registered by the DVLA as a "Motor Caravan" is a red herring. As I said previously, if a private individual bought a new Ducato panel-van to convert into a motorhome and the DVLA agreed to register the end-result as a "Motor Caravan", I would not expect that motorhome to become eligible for Fiat Camper Services retrospectively. I remember reading an article in MMM about Murvi converting a new Ducato panel-van that a customer had bought himself at a bargain price in Ireland. I believe most people would not expect a Murvi produced in that manner to become eligible for Fiat Camper Assistance post-conversion. None of this seems particularly controversial to me as the prices Fiat charge motorhome manufacturers (eg. Auto-Trail, Burstner, Swift, Trigano, etc.) for base-vehicles will undoubtedly include a built-in 'fee' for Fiat Camper Assistance. If a manufacturer, or private individual, buys a Ducato delivery van on the cheap, then has it turned into a motorhome, I don't see why Fiat should be expected to co-operate and provide Fiat Camper Assistance on that motorhome free of charge. While I can appreciate malc-d's wish for more clarity in Fiat's advertising, I'm going to suggest that, regarding John's Murvi, the advertising should not have confused. Fiat's "Ducato Motorhome" leaflet and magazine articles carry no pictures of panel-vans and do not mention them in the text. Reference is made to features like a cut-away cab roof, 130bhp 2.3litre motor, a special lower and wider chassis option - all things that relate to 'coachbuilt' motorhomes and not to panel-van conversions. If potential buyers of Ducato panel-van-based motorhomes were to study such adverts, the likelihood is that they would conclude (as I did initially) that the adverts related only to coachbuilt motorhome designs and, hence, that the Fiat Camper Assistance product referred to within those advertisements would not apply to panel-van conversions. Despite Fiat's advertising not mentioning X/250 Ducato panel-van-based motorcaravans, it transpires that such vehicles clearly can be eligible for Fiat Camper Assistance. In fact, the norm seems to be that X/250 Ducato-based motorhomes - irrespective of chassis type - will be marketed with Fiat Camper Assistance as standard. When this doesn't happen, it seems likely that this is due to the particular way in which the motorhome converter sources the Ducato base-vehicle. I spoke briefly to Timberland about this and gained the impression that their panel-van-based motorhomes came with Fiat Camper Assistance. I tried (but was unable) to contact IH Motor Campers, as I thought their J500 coachbuilt model might start life as a 'commercial' Ducato chassis, so might not be eligible for Fiat Camper Assistance. I may follow this up later, when the two companies' purchasing staff have returned from their NEC Show duties. It's perhaps worth saying that motorhome manufacturers or dealers are not necessarily fully clued-up regarding 'documentation' relating to base-vehicles and may not always be able to provide accurate off-the-cuff, yes-or-no answers to inquiries about this. (I rapidly became aware of this trend when I explored apparent anomalies with the duration of motorhome base-vehicle warranties.) As a result, if there is something peculiar about a warranty, or (in this instance) an anticipated base-vehicle-related 'service product' that has not been provided, there's a strong chance this won't be made known to a motorhome buyer prior to the hand-over stage. 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colin Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Good bit of work there Derek, I believe JM is away at moment, but I'm sure on return he will thank you for getting to the bottom of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 Excellent bit of research there Derek - quite a minefield. Easy to see why there is such confusion. I'm sure a lot of people will appreciate your explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 And the fact that he took the time and trouble to do the obvious and speak to the oracle - several oracles in fact - at his own expense - notwithstanding that he doesn't even own a Fiat based van, X250, panel conversion, or otherwise! Well done, indeed, Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I have now spoken to Timberland and IH Motor Campers (IHMC). Both companies told me that the warranty for their Fiat Ducato panel-van designs was the normal one that a buyer would anticipate being provided with any new Fiat-based motorhome built and marketed in UK - 36 months duration from date of UK-registration and including Fiat Camper Assistance. They thought that Murvi would use the same type of Ducato vehicle-procurement as they did and could offer no firm answer as to why John's new Morello should have been short-changed regarding Fiat Camper Assistance. They said there had been occasional problems where the converted vehicle had been registered in a 'commercial' taxation class by the DVLA, rather than Private/Light Goods and suggested this might have something to do with it. There may well be a simple explanation for John's problem, but it's likely that only Murvi can provide it. Perhaps John could draw their attention to this thread, just in case Murvi wishes to clarify the issue on this forum. (Incidentally, IHMC's "J500" coachbuilt model is built on a low-floor Ducato 'Camper' chassis, not a 'commercial' one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Engine Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 Thank you all for your excellent work I will speak to Murvi upon my return and point them to this thread in the meanwhile, again thanks john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CAB Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I have posted an e-mail I received on this topic in a similar thread on this forum, so I won't duplicate the content. My fault for confusing the two issues - apologies. http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=15008&posts=17#M159644 Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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