yeti Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 This is getting to be a long running farce!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 AndyStothert - 2009-04-08 11:03 AM I have just spoken to an owner (2.3 litre 6 speed Adria Coral) who had the work done on the gearbox and he is very very disappointed. Disillusioned even. Besides the howling noise in reverse it is now juddering in 1st gear as well as reverse, and he thinks the modifications have introduced more problems, rather than solving any. My own van has gone in this morning for the work to be carried out, and from being cautiously optimistic about it I think I'm now dreading picking it up again. You've got to wonder what Fiat are playing at here - they seem to be spending (wasting) millions on faffing about not improving things. The man who I have just spoken to is thinking of asking Fiat to put his gearbox back into the condition it was prior to modification. Where and what next? We all know now that this particular gearbox/engine combination is being abandoned by Fiat, and that the current production box will not fit the 2.3 engine, but would they not have been better spending the cash making it do so? Rather than throwing it away on solutions which aren't?Andy, the reason previously stated for the "judder" was that the reverse gearing ratio is too high. But from your latest post it would seem that this is not the case, i.e "juddering in 1st gear. If the reverse gear ratio is indeed the culprit the only explanation I can think of is that the fitter has got his greasy/oily hands on the clutch plate and it is slipping and should burn off in time. A juddering clutch is normally a classic indication of a leaking rear oil seal on the crankshaft, which deposits engine oil on the clutch friction plate. I hope that the oily clutch is the reason his van is juddering in 1st, as if it's not, the reverse gear too high scenario is blown out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted April 9, 2009 Author Share Posted April 9, 2009 The worry is that the parts are badly made and the whole idea is another bodge. It is not really a 'theory' that the reverse gear ratio is too high. I, and all the other owners think it is, Peugeot know it is, and have said so, and Fiat are now using a gearbox with a lower ratio reverse gear on the revised 2.2 litre 6 speed production models. Plus of course Fiat are now trying to fit a lower ratio reverse gear in our gearboxes. What is in question is whether the new reverse gear is of a sufficiently low ratio to cope, and is the whole idea a bodge? Experience of it so far suggest that no it isn't a low enough reverse gear ratio, and yes, it may be a bodge. Anyone buying one now really is taking a risk, as this latest solution is not yet proven to be effective. I shall be getting mine back today (with my wallet lighter by a whopping £540 for servicing) and hopefully it will be OK. We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DESCO Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I am about to try to get people to post their story re Fiat on Motorhome Fun web site on Watchdog http://www.bbc.net.uk/watchdog as they say that they have not had many complaints. Could as many as possible from this site please join in. I know that people have suggested it before, but if they say they have not received many complaints, maybe we should try again. After all what can we lose? I personally can't complain as I have a Ford base, but am hating to see the way Fiat are treating you all. Please help Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Suggest you post something similar on the Motorhomefacts website. There are over 2000 Fiat complaints there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DESCO Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I am not a member of motorhome facts would sombody please post on there, we have got to try something. Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 And don't forget VOSA this must have a safety related element to the problem,if depending on the circumstances the van is not fully under the drivers control when reversing at the 1300 RPM stated by Fiat and Peugeot. They only had 8 complaints last year one was mine and I know at least one if not 2 of the others. It was complaints to VOSA that finally got them to do something about scuttlegate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 You can sign up and you have 10 free posts before subscribing. I can't do it because I think I've probably overvocalised the dreadful Fiat problems already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Only 5 free posts now :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DESCO Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Thanks for info have posted it myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DESCO Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Following you last comment on MHF iwish to refer you to my response. http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-607955.html#607955 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Following you last comment on MHF iwish to refer you to my response. http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-607955.html#607955 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 Yeti,your stammer is getting worse (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DESCO Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 yeti - 2009-04-09 8:27 PM Following you last comment on MHF iwish to refer you to my response. http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopicp-607955.html#607955 I have no problem with you, yours was the only comment who seemed to agree with what I was trying to do. I was only trying to help. After all as I said I have a Ford Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DESCO Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I tried something it did not work. People did not respond well to my efforts. Hope you get somewhere soon, as for me I bow out I will not bother any more. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 DESCO - 2009-04-09 11:07 PM I tried something it did not work. People did not respond well to my efforts. Hope you get somewhere soon, as for me I bow out I will not bother any more. Dave Any help from any source is good, did you get bad results from MHF? Thanks for trying :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Hi everyone. I have just received an email stating that my local dealer now has the replacement clutch for my vehicle (Peugeot Boxer based Autocruise Stargazer), and the dealer will contact me to arrange for the work to be carried out. The other parts were supposed to be already there. As they are closed over Easter, it looks possible that next week I just might have a judder free van . Keep hoping! I will report back once work is done. tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Peugeot were asked last week for an official response to the rumours and owners concerns that they have no fix or plans for a fix for the 5 speed 2.2 litre models, and the 3 litre 6 speed vans. You will have to judge the implications for yourself, but it doesn't seem encouraging to me after being told twice by Peugeot that they have a new 5 speed box ready for production in March, and that the 3 litre vans were to get modifications to reduce the reverse gear ratio. Now they say that the 3 litre vans are not affected, and that the 5 speed vans will be getting something similar to the 2.2 litre 6 speed vans - which isn't very specific or helpful and with no timescale. Fiat meanwhile, are saying absolutely nothing about these concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 Ours went in this last week for the gearbox modifications and I took it out yesterday for a thorough test in the local hills. There is no doubt that the modifications have improved things on steep hills in reverse, with a lot less juddering, and a reduction in that destructive sounding vibration which runs through the whole vehicle when trying to reverse up a steep hill slowly with the drive fully engaged. But the gearing has only been lowered slightly, and the improvement is an improvement and not a cure. Having had both the clutch cook and gearbox fail in this vehicle I am a bit more confident about the survival of the gearbox, but not completely sure. The clutch remains a very vulnerable component if reversing in steep or awkward places. Fiat said last week that they have no further mechanical measures planned to eradicate the defect, when in effect, they haven't provided a solution. Our camper (MWB panel van, and never above 3000kg whilst touring) is probably the lightest around and if this modification doesn't provide a solution for ours then all the others will be proportionately worse off. Peugeot have admitted that this is not a complete solution, but haven't yet said what they intend to do next. Fiat likewise. Where do we go from here? I think we're going to have to wait until a lot more vans have been modified and see what the results are. Personally I think this has gone on long enough, and if Fiat will extend the warranty on the clutch and transmission, with the improvements evident on our small truck, then I am prepared to let lt lie. However, so far, after they sold us all a vehicle which they knew had this defect, then denied it for months, lied, gave us all the runaround, attempted to fob us all off with the engine mountings, then provided a solution which isn't, they still think we should be grateful for their efforts, and won't discuss warranties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulurita Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Pleased to read that the work carried out on your motorhome Andy, has at least improved things. I would have thought under trade descriptions etc FIAT should be compelled to find a CURE, otherwise the vehicle as purchased is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 All those potential buyers( with bigger FIAT based vans) of the soon to be announced FIAT 500 open top as a replacement for their towed behind SMARTS etc must be busting to buy another Fiat product- oh I don't think so. I think Andy's call for an extended warranty is the least FIAT must do, I have no intention of passing my Morello on to anyone in the present form so may well have to keep it for 'ever' just making sure its only forwards! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 Just come back from putting a Thousand miles on a Citreon 2.2 6 speed based Wildax around Shropshire and mid Wales. An 'odd' m/c, covered over 40,000miles as WVM now converted for hire. Plenty of real world reversing up steep narrow lanes, soon ironed out the judder on tarmac, BUT, too much slipping of clutch to keep speed down on twisty lanes and also developed the 'singing' vibration couple of times. On grass/rough ground, it's a different matter, any manouvering around campsites and reversing up only moderate grassy slopes induced sever judder just the same as WVM m/c's I've 'tested' before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I am compiling some information which I hope to take further and I need your help. Am I correct in assuming that the first model of the X250 Sevel chassis appeared on a conversion in 2007? If this is the case when was the first report of transmission faults and also 'scuttlegate'? And how many of these were on 6-speed 3litre models? I would be grateful for your responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 Hi Yeti I put the deposit down on my X250 Burstner Solano in June 2007 I purchased it from a dealer in Germany some of the original German paper work from Burstner has a 10.07.06 date on it not sure if that date was delivery or completion. Scuttlegate was apparent from the day I took delivery which was Aug 2007 the well in the cylinder head was full of water and red with rust. Mine is a 2.3 hope this helps you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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