rowley Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Jim, I have the 5 speed 2.2 100mj on a Fiat, and it judders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 emporium Don't go for X250 based FIat there are some cracking second hand vans for 33k or less dont give yourself all the agro that X250 owners have. What ever you are told they all suffer with an excesive high reverse ratio which will lead to problems sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Sorry jhorsf but you have to put up with us beginners! Taken me 60 years to get this far even with a trembly hand!Or was I laughing too much at Fiats announcement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave42 Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Jim I have a 2008 Symbol, 2.2 100PS 5 speed based on the Peugeot and it judders. Worse than that the clutch failed at 2000 miles and then again at 3000 miles. This was after the download that was their first effort at a fix. The Peugeot Dealership then told me they would replace the high reverse gear in February, then by the end of March. I'm still waiting! Now Peugeot seem to have changed their mind and are not offering any hope to 5 speed owners. They just don't seem to care about their customers any more. I would not touch any Peugeot/Fiat based m/h if I were you, not for a couple of years anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 There are some 'juddering' statistics in Jonathan Lloyd's article (MMM May 2009 pages 223-227) on Swift Group budget motorhomes based on Fiat Ducato X250 chassis. Of the 64 motorhomes involved in the study, 70% of those with the 2.3litre/130PS motor were claimed by their owners to suffer from juddering and 8% of the vehicles with the 2.2litre/100PS motor. I couldn't spot any figures in JL's article to indicate how many of the 64 motorhomes had each size of motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 dave42 - 2009-04-22 11:20 PM Jim I have a 2008 Symbol, 2.2 100PS 5 speed based on the Peugeot and it judders. Worse than that the clutch failed at 2000 miles and then again at 3000 miles. This was after the download that was their first effort at a fix. The Peugeot Dealership then told me they would replace the high reverse gear in February, then by the end of March. I'm still waiting! Now Peugeot seem to have changed their mind and are not offering any hope to 5 speed owners. They just don't seem to care about their customers any more. Yes thats the case I have it in writing no fix if you have a 5 speed Peugeot,it makes me sick when I read on forums and in mags that Peugeot are hero's and have fixed everyone's problem,they have not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emporium Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 emporium - 2009-04-22 1:34 PM Hi, Can anyone tell me if this judder problem affects the 2.2 100hp peugeot or has that got a different gearbox?. My wife and I are looking to purchase a new Compass 180 but having read about this problem I am not sure what to do. Unfortunately I do not know of a motorhome with the layout we want (rear lounge/front dinette) at about the compass price (£33000) that does not use the Fiat/Peugeot base vehicle - any ideas? Cheers, Jim Hi all, Thanks to all the comments regarding the above posting I made yesterday, these forums are very useful! I think we shall have to look at a different base vehicle. Cheers, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Hi all, Thanks to all the comments regarding the above posting I made yesterday, these forums are very useful! I think we shall have to look at a different base vehicle. Cheers, Jim Have a look for a Merc or Ford Transit there are still a lot of motorhomes built on these. Its a shame the Fiat/Peugeot chassis do have a lot to offer it is just the poor customer service they are providing, and I feel has now spoilt the market for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I would have like a new Fiat 500 to tow behind the motorhome, I also looked at the Citreon C1 and Peugeot, 107, instead I brought a Toyota Aygo despite being more expensive for the same car, I simply have no faith in these companies, so I voted with my feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Melvin Good for you, others will follow I am sure Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 I am amazed that Converters,especially the small specialised UK ones are still using the X250 Sevel chassis( Are Fiat giving them a 'Deal' that they can't refuse ??) Even my favoured converter 'Devon' have announced an X250 based High Top... I just hope it doesn't mean that they (Devon) drop the excellent Renault Master High Tops in favour of the X250, if they do I'll have to look elswhere. Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen don't DESERVE the large market share that they presently enjoy in motorhome base vehicles. Converters don't help by concentrating all their output on them, giving us the 'buying public' less choice. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 If you want a really good looking van you have no alternative than the beautiful X250. It may have a few perceived problems, but it does look great you have to admit. Buy one, you know it makes sense. And just for the record,Burstner are dropping the Transit for all future vans and sticking solely with Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin9591 Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Rayjsj - 2009-04-23 8:12 PM I am amazed that Converters,especially the small specialised UK ones are still using the X250 Sevel chassis( Are Fiat giving them a 'Deal' that they can't refuse ??) Even my favoured converter 'Devon' have announced an X250 based High Top... I just hope it doesn't mean that they (Devon) drop the excellent Renault Master High Tops in favour of the X250, if they do I'll have to look elsewhere. . :D Devon say that they are anticipating a shortage of Renault Masters as the current "New Master" will be on run-out towards the end of the year and they are not confident of ready supplies of the new "New Master". Accordingly, they have ordered X250 vehicles to fill the gap BUT they are assured by Fiat that the gearbox/clutch issues are fully resolved!! Nevertheless Devon told me that they will continue with the new "New Master" as and when vehicles are available. It's early mock-up is said to be an ugly brute, rather similar in appearance to the VW Crafter from the front and you need to wear a spiky helmet to find one of those attractive. Glad I found this site/thread and bought a Renault. Best Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Peter. The X250 is a fantastic looking van. But what's the point of beauty if its rotten inside and gives you lot's of grief, spends yonks in the repairers and will be worthless when you come to sell it. You're meant to be enjoying your motorhome not stressing about getting it fixed or wondering on your foreign trip whether it will let you down and speculating how much it is going to cost you when the warranty expires. On top of that we now find the fix doesn't work. What a mess! I listened to posters on here before deciding against buying Fiat and I'm very glad I did so. Thank you Fiat owners for your honesty and advice. Those who have bought and continue to buy in the light of the problems expressed frankly need their heads tested. A Fiat might look good on the drive but in all other respects it stinks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 Driver Error!!! What planet are you from? A clutch either works or it doesn't and if a gearbox is fitted with a reverse gear that is too high how can it be blamed on the driver when the clutch disintegrates. It's all to easy to pass the buck onto the driver when a manufacturer has a vehicle with an all to obvious design fault. Not all of us were born on a banana boat. >:-) >:-) >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I fail to see how FIAT can say the reversing problem has been solved even if you get one with a modified g box and clutch its far from perfect. According to Andy the new FORD unit and g box will not be available untill the end of 2009.In the mean time FIAT will talk up existing stocks of X250 to clear them to the unsuspecting. I also find it hard to beleive people are recommending you buy an X250 they must have some sort of peverse view of life. The facts can not be denied the reverse ratio is to high and leads to major problems either now or in the future even with the latest mods YOU HAVE BE WARNED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 I feel a bit better today, Parcel Force delivered a parcel to us today in a 58 plate Merc Sprinter. A Merc was my first choice as a base vehicle but I was persuaded to the Fiat 3litre by my wife and the converter. I eyed this Parcel Force van with some envy thinking no juddering or scuttlegate and said to the driver I bet this is a nice van. He replied 'its a load of c**p!.' It had covered 10k miles and got through two clutches. They had taken delivery of 60 vans and 25 of them had clutch replacements over the year, it also lacked any grunt. Not a patch on the previous Sprinter. I am only quoting the driver and we know Parcel Force are pretty 'demanding' of their vans but it did make me feel better. Where are the Japanese, they could clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted April 24, 2009 Share Posted April 24, 2009 PSHORT - 2009-04-24 7:18 PM I feel a bit better today, Parcel Force delivered a parcel to us today in a 58 plate Merc Sprinter. A Merc was my first choice as a base vehicle but I was persuaded to the Fiat 3litre by my wife and the converter. I eyed this Parcel Force van with some envy thinking no juddering or scuttlegate and said to the driver I bet this is a nice van. He replied 'its a load of c**p!.' It had covered 10k miles and got through two clutches. They had taken delivery of 60 vans and 25 of them had clutch replacements over the year, it also lacked any grunt. Not a patch on the previous Sprinter. I am only quoting the driver and we know Parcel Force are pretty 'demanding' of their vans but it did make me feel better. Where are the Japanese, they could clean up. Funny because talking to a courier manager couple of weeks ago he told completly reverse ;-) to what you are saying. They like the X250 but find new merc is much more reliable, they advise to not touch last model merc as changing injectors on them is common place and very expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robx5 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Can any body help? I have a new fiat motor home(3.0 160 manual) on order it is currently being built a the factory and came across these problems a couple of days ago. I was told by the dealer to avoid the auto box as it has major issues, does anybody know if the auto box is as bad as the manual and is there any way of being sure that when it arrives i have not been stitched up by fiat like the unfortunate people on here. I am seriously worried. Any advice is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 rob. You have ordered a manual but seem to be asking about the auto. Apologies if I've mis read your post. I'm afraid the manual box is likely to be problematical and I understand that some owners of the 3 litre manual box version of the X250 have been told there is no fix, some have been told Fiat/Peugeot are working on one and others have been told there is one. Someone, somewhere (I can't remember where but possibly on MHF) has suggested that a group get together to ask Fiat for a categorical statement of their intentions but I can't recall what happened. As for the auto box, this basically is the same as the manual box (the X250 auto is an automated manual) but I cannot recall anyone complaining about judder although there are so few owners it is difficult to draw meaningful conclusions. I think you have been misled by your dealer. Is it possible to cancel without severe financial penalty? If it means losing less than £1000, I would get out now and look for something based on the Ford Transit or Renault Master. Not nearly as attractive as the Fial but far less hassle! Further information can be found on the motorhomefacts website. I can't provide you with a link as it would be moderated out but google and you will find over 2000 complaints about the Fiat gearbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Rob, dont buy yourself problems with a Fiat. Brilliant going forward hellish trying to reverse, go for a ford or Renault better still a VW (if you can find one), In hindsight I wished I had walked away from my dealer .I feel like Ive bought a lot of unnecessary trouble. Remember your Dealer wont be as nice to you when your calling back with Problems infact he will just pass you onto Fiat Uk then you will be like me Still waiting for the call for the so called fix and Ive been waiting since November 2008, Think long and hard ,then change your order while you have chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Only from what I have read on various threads the automated manual gear box gets high praise but it's early days. The box I understand is the same as the 2.3 X250 so if it eliminates judder it must be slipping the clutch the reverse ratio is to high and will lead to problems sooner or later. Your best plan here is to get out of the deal and go for Renult or Merc even if it cost you a grand better to have peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 robx5 - 2009-04-25 12:39 AM Can any body help? I have a new fiat motor home(3.0 160 manual) on order it is currently being built a the factory and came across these problems a couple of days ago. I was told by the dealer to avoid the auto box as it has major issues, does anybody know if the auto box is as bad as the manual and is there any way of being sure that when it arrives i have not been stitched up by fiat like the unfortunate people on here. I am seriously worried. Any advice is much appreciated. So dealers will still say anything to get a sale of one of these vans,can you name the dealer you might be buying your new van from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 A decent dealer should enable you to cancel the order and return your deposit. Alternatively they could accept your deposit against something else. After all, you have been totally mislead. If all else fails - and you decide against cancelling - you should be able to swap your order for an automatic version which it seems is what you wanted in the first place. While this might not be ideal it is likely to be a marginally better option than the manual version. Please let us know the outcome. These days customer service is not what is was and bad dealers need to be named and shamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted April 25, 2009 Share Posted April 25, 2009 Do you think the dealer changed you from an auto to because he knew the auto might take longer to get a delivery date and you might go elsewhere. From what I have read on all the forums the 3L auto seems to have less or non of the reversing problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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