Jonathan Lloyd Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Hello Derek After a long period when (due to a contract with another magazine) I was unable to post, I have now renegotiated my contract and will now be pulling out into the slow lane of the Out and About information highway. I am happy to answer any direct queries regarding my articles but please remember that I am a freelance journalist and that my views are personal and should not be taken to represent those of the magazine, the editor or the publisher. Concerning this sorry saga, for some time I have been assisting Andy by collecting details of 'Judderers' in the MCC (Motor Caravanners' Club) via their monthly magazine. Regarding Motorcaravanners' Report in this month's MMM, the figures are... 20 of the respondents had the 130 Multijet engine, of whom 14 claimed to have suffered from juddering when reversing. Out of the 44 remaining only 40 were taken note of as two claimed to have the 3.0-litre 160 (the left hand drive prototypes) which is not available on production models, one had an auto-clutch fitted and one was adament that he had an automatic on a 100 Multijet, so was disregarded as being 'confused'. Out of these 40, 3 claimed to suffer from the judders. Off for the bank holiday weekend now. Regards Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Lloyd Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Yes I know, it should be adamant not adament! More haste, less speed I'm afraid! J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Jonathan Lloyd - 2009-05-01 2:56 PM Hello Derek After a long period when (due to a contract with another magazine) I was unable to post, I have now renegotiated my contract and will now be pulling out into the slow lane of the Out and About information highway. I am happy to answer any direct queries regarding my articles but please remember that I am a freelance journalist and that my views are personal and should not be taken to represent those of the magazine, the editor or the publisher. Concerning this sorry saga, for some time I have been assisting Andy by collecting details of 'Judderers' in the MCC (Motor Caravanners' Club) via their monthly magazine. Regarding Motorcaravanners' Report in this month's MMM, the figures are... 20 of the respondents had the 130 Multijet engine, of whom 14 claimed to have suffered from juddering when reversing. Out of the 44 remaining only 40 were taken note of as two claimed to have the 3.0-litre 160 (the left hand drive prototypes) which is not available on production models, one had an auto-clutch fitted and one was adament that he had an automatic on a 100 Multijet, so was disregarded as being 'confused'. Out of these 40, 3 claimed to suffer from the judders. Off for the bank holiday weekend now. Regards Jonathan 8-) I,m sorry Jonathon ,I was following you as far as from the 20 respondents 14 had the judder,s, where did the remaining 44 come from, ? please expand, thank you Corky :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Jonathan Lloyd - 2009-05-01 2:56 PM After a long period when (due to a contract with another magazine) I was unable to post, I have now renegotiated my contract and will now be pulling out into the slow lane of the Out and About information highway. welcome to our forum jonathen, no doubt your presents will be more than welcome my luvver. i is a bit worried about the above. was you working for the communist weekly me ansum? Us diddent know that this forum was barred to some people. tis all a bit worrying my biddy. friedalivefred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 Some owners (me included) have now been trying to get Fiat (and Peugeot) to resolve the transmission problems on our Ducatos and Boxers for two years. It is the second anniversary of my original complaint to Fiat next week. The original thread on this forum started on 17.1 .08 after unsuccessfully trying to get Fiat to acknowledge that a defect existed, and since then we have all been spreading the word in order to put pressure on Fiat. Despite all the things written on here about Fiat (some of them maybe a touch unkind) and the motorhome manufacturers, nobody from Warners has ever tried to put pressure on me to stop. Last week one of the dealers who advertises in MMM contacted Warners and attempted to do just that on the threat of withdrawing their advertising if the campaign to undermine Fiat didn't abate. This was triggered by my advising a potential buyer that the defect hadn't been cured after the dealer had told the customer it had. It was mentioned to me, but not in a way designed to stop what we are doing, and I reckon without Warners support (through MMM and the forum - where things have got quite heated at times) we wouldn't have got this far with Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Andy , Firstly it is proving that this forum topic is having some effect. If that undisclosed dealer can stoop so low as to try what he has , It just shows you what depths some dealers are willing to go in order to sell their Motorhome stock, I would like to ask that dealer if he thinks it alright for him to sell a product which has been and is proving to be faulty, Does he think its alright to take peoples hard earned money and knowingly selling them a faulty Motorhome because when the customer comes back to him with the said faulty gearbox he just points them at Fiat UK and relinquishes responsibility for the problem and goes on to sell his next one, Any self respecting Dealer ( if there is such a thing) would be telling Fiat to get it right, Secondly it is Diabolical that such tactic,s are used in threatening the livelihood of a person trying to solve a problem for his own good in which a lot of other owners and potential owners, and those who yet dont know they have a problem will benefit from, Nobody is trying to undermine FIAT quite the contrary we want Fiat to Thrive ,to not only enable it to solve this problem, but to go from strength to strength and build better Motorhome bases, I am Warming to my Fiat, Driving it, its handling is first class ,the engine response is really good considering the size of my Motorhome , it has plenty of gadgets like cruise control, trip meter with fuel consumption etc all let down by this gearbox problem and now wondering if the clutch will last if I under take a long journey, not something I should even be thinking of with a vehicle with less than 1500 miles on the clock, Come on Fiat whats it going to take, we know your trying ,and we more than anyone want you to get it Right , you can help by stamping out this sort of thing by telling Unscrupulous dealer to back off , there is such a thing in this country as Freedom of speech . lets have this problem solved to the Benefit of all concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Quote ..."Last week one of the dealers who advertises in MMM contacted Warners and attempted to do just that on the threat of withdrawing their advertising if the campaign to undermine Fiat didn't abate. This was triggered by my advising a potential buyer that the defect hadn't been cured after the dealer had told the customer it had. " Is this the same dealer who said to avoid the autobox as it has problems - bet FIAT love him now as one of their dealers has openly admitted the Autobox has problems. What problems are these then I wonder? Edit - typos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 He was very likely aiming to put buyers off the auto because he has a problem selling his manual types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Andy It is appalling that any sort of 'pressure' should be put on you to stop 'embarrassing' dealers. I can understand that Motorhome dealers are unhappy with the situation, but I would have more sympathy with them if there were any evidence that they had been lobbying Fiat and Motorhome manufacturers on customers’ behalf, regarding the judder. Just out of curiosity, have you attempted to interest Which? in the judder problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 It would apear this dealer is trying to use blackmail tatics, and are asking the magazine to aid and abeit their deception. I think they are skating on thin ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I suppose it would be unfair to ask Andy to name and shame said dealer but it is such a shame that we may never get to know who the offending dealer is - unless of course a forum member with no position to jeopardise just happened to find out and post details so that we could all avoid dealing with said dealer???????????????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 If this dealer were to carry out their threat to withdraw their advertising account they would have no further hold (if indeed they already have one) on Warners who would be free to disclose the details and that would be much worse for their prospective sales in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 .............................always assuming Warners had the balls to disclose said dealer................................or whether there might be the potential for legal ramifications which would (justifiably) scare Warners witless if it turned out to be a large and powerful group dealership rather than a small one off dealership?????????????????????????????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I think Magazine Publishers are between a rock and a hard place as far as this topic is concerned , if they move to the aid of the dealers /converters/vehicle chassis suppliers. For fear of losing advertising revenue they can then alienate their readership and perhaps lose those readers, and if you lose either you may as well close shop, So they have to walk a Fine line between the two " Unenviable," I subscribe to the other Magazine and buy MMM monthly but I think I will be Subscribing to MMM in the future, Out and About live , Is a far superior Forum and its free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 There will be major changes in the newspaper, magazine and sales industries in the future with a large proportion of ‘readers’ moving to internet forums, the younger person is already well advanced in that direction. It’s quicker and more productive to ask and receive queries on any subject, it’s worldwide and it aims at the heart of a problem, such as the recent Fiat fiasco. A whole new world of buyer support is available at your finger tips, use it. Salesman will become obsolete, no more will they be able to sit back all smug and relate blatant untruths to an unsuspecting public, the potential buyer will learn of all the faults way before they enter into a contract, thanks to forums such as these where all manner of research is available from thousands of product users. Many readers complain about the blocks of advertising in magazines, yet it is they who continue to buy and support the advertisers when they could easily buy the same product ‘on line’ with a cost saving on paper and fuel. A new age is opening for the buyer where he is challenging cost and quality, let it expand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niton Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 The is full of stories that Fiat are to take a stake in Chrysler and also buy Opel and Vauxhall from GM. This can only be bad news for the motor industry but also for owners of Ducato's with reverse judder. I'm sure after they have completed the mergers and takeovers and become the second largest car manufacturer in the world, they will not be concerned with a few hundred Ducato's that judder when reversed up a steep hill. It is an unwelcome development. Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Looks like another manufacture to avoid. I have been waiting for Fiat Justin Westnedge to call me back for 2 weeks now following my bodged tranmission modifiacation, he promised all sorts of thing, but now refuses to answer my calls. However, give him his due he clearly told me ' Fiat have no further modifications'. It would apear he is up to his old tricks once again giving the big hot air talk then ignoring you calls. By the way do you Know under your warranty agreement your are entitled to a courtesy car, Justin was so obliging he even got Fiat to pay for a higher car because the Fiat dealership were unable to supply a courtesy car at the time of the modification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Melvin - 2009-05-04 6:43 PM Looks like another manufacture to avoid. I have been waiting for Fiat Justin Westnedge to call me back for 2 weeks now following my bodged transmission modification, he promised all sorts of thing, but now refuses to answer my calls. However, give him his due he clearly told me ' Fiat have no further modifications'. It would appear he is up to his old tricks once again giving the big hot air talk then ignoring you calls. By the way do you Know under your warranty agreement your are entitled to a courtesy car, Justin was so obliging he even got Fiat to pay for a higher car because the Fiat dealership were unable to supply a courtesy car at the time of the modification. Thanks for the info on the hire car Melvin I didn't know that, my nearest dealer is some 50 mile away,how did you organise getting the courtesy car , did you ask when you took your vehicle in to the dealer or was it organised before hand, can I ask you what kind of problems your now having with your vehicle, thanks Corky :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I have the same problem with transport and credit to Justin he did organise a hire car for use during the last recall. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Corky, tell the dealer it is part of their contract with Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Melvin - 2009-05-04 8:12 PM Corky, tell the dealer it is part of their contract with Fiat. :-D Thanks Melvin I.ll do just that, Obliged :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Melvin - 2009-05-04 8:12 PM Corky, tell the dealer it is part of their contract with Fiat. :-D Thanks Melvin I.ll do just that, Obliged :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 With the proposed take over of GM Europe by Fiat,will we now have to be wary of any furture conversions on Vauxhall bases?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Lloyd Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Corky 8 - 2009-05-01 4:31 PM Jonathan Lloyd - 2009-05-01 2:56 PM 8-) I,m sorry Jonathon ,I was following you as far as from the 20 respondents 14 had the judder,s, where did the remaining 44 come from, ? please expand, thank you Corky :-D Hello Corky For the Motorcaravanners' Report in this month's MMM I had 64 usable responses. There should only be a choice of two engines for the ranges featured. They are the 100 Multijet with five-speed gearbox and the 130 Multijet with six-speed gearbox. As the remaining 44 respondents didn't have the 130, they should have all had the 100-five-speed, though in fact two didn't and two couldn't be counted, only 40 of them. Overall most readers seemed satisfied with their Fiat base vehicle, though most were aware that it is not without fault. It is my personal opinion that it's not the faulty gearboxes that are the problem, it is the way it has been dealt with. I've no record of any accidents or personal injury caused by reported gearbox problems, only shattered dreams and bitter disappointment. Regards Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Jonathan Lloyd - 2009-05-05 10:19 AM ] It is my personal opinion that it's not the faulty gearboxes that are the problem, it is the way it has been dealt with. I've no record of any accidents or personal injury caused by reported gearbox problems, only shattered dreams and bitter disappointment. Regards Jonathan As I have said before about Fiat, they show institutionalised customer indifference, you buy their products at your own risk. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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