Corky 8 Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 That is good news Mike, That is good news Mike, That is good news Mike, I think any converter that stands with their customers will see the customer returning to them for their next purchase knowing they are with the customer when the chips a down, Myself I'm totally disgusted with the treatment customers are receiving from this } Failed .Italian. Automotive. Transport. that} Doesn't. Use .Controlled . Astern . Traction . Output, commonly abbreviated as FIAT DUCATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Just a quick note to do my bit to keep the thread 'fresh'... The straight cut gear and spur mod that has come in for much criticism over recent weeks is not that unusual. The X250 gearboxes all come with a straight cut spur and reverse gear from the factory, as did the previous Ducato 5 speed box a la 2.3 and 2.8JTD. It actually has benefits such as preventing crunching when engaging reverse like a lot of front wheel drives do. This is not the problem, it is that the reverse gear ratio is still too high and without a complete redesign of the gearbox no amount of modifications will amount to much more than a bodge. I for one have now just about had enough of the X250 not because of the gear problem which does not really affect us but because of the EGR and other fuelling problems that we have experienced and neither the dealers, nor Fiat technical support know how to fix without systematically changing several expensive parts. This is only inconvenient while the vans are covered by warranty but for the future... What a fantastic vehicle! The cab, the doors, the load area and the ride are all massive improvements over the old van; we have no oil leaks and no wheel bearing problems any more, but what lies beneath the bonnet, flanked by it's steamed-up headlamps is a horror movie in the making. The van therefore only just passes as acceptable and only because of the other dire vehicles that provide an alternative. They all have their own issues and many are much more serious that the Fiat's (for use as a high mileage van). Anyone that has been following this story and subsequently buys a Fiat as a camper would (in my opinion) need their head examining. I thought that Mr Marchionne was aware that it is better and more profitable to build 1 million vehicles well, without excessive warranty issues than to build 5 million vehicles badly. I wish he would stop piddling around with Opel and concentrate on fulfilling the promises made to his customers by his marketing people. And while I am ranting... does anyone else think that Ferrari's need to spend 100 million pounds a year on F1 something of a p*** take? Have a nice day. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 Melvin - 2009-05-27 6:25 PM The modified transmission carried out to my X250 is now leaking oil onto my drive. Had the transmission oil repaired today, offside (driver side) gearbox shaft oil seal, apparently Fiat do not supply these as part of the modification kit. If you have had the mod done check you shaft for oil leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Having looked, listened and made comments on the FIAT disgrace since it started. I'm of the centuries old opinion that its simply 'buyer beware' when buying any product. Trust no one. Believe no one. Make your own judgement. That buyers still believe the stories eminating from FIAT is amazing. I can understand Andy and a few others being caught out with their new purchases at the start but for anyone who has bought a faulty vehicle after reading these forums since this started I really have little sympathy. Do your homework is the only answer. For many years FIAT have produced second rate vehicles. Research the owners and financiers of FIAT and it will lead you to the source of their problems. If it were me that had bought a duff M/H it would have been dumped back at the dealers door big time regardless of cost. Another idea I had would have been to drive onto the middle of Tower Bridge stop and set it alight. To make a problem noticed one has to take drastic action. I can only repeat what I said months ago avoid FIAT like the plague. They never will have an answer to the present problem, its impossible unless the chassis and gearbox/clutch are all replaced in total. They all form an integral part of the basic design. Buy a Mercedes ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 libby - 2009-05-31 4:21 PM Having looked, listened and made comments on the FIAT disgrace since it started. I'm of the centuries old opinion that its simply 'buyer beware' when buying any product. Trust no one. Believe no one. Make your own judgement. That buyers still believe the stories eminating from FIAT is amazing. I can understand Andy and a few others being caught out with their new purchases at the start but for anyone who has bought a faulty vehicle after reading these forums since this started I really have little sympathy. Do your homework is the only answer. For many years FIAT have produced second rate vehicles. Research the owners and financiers of FIAT and it will lead you to the source of their problems. If it were me that had bought a duff M/H it would have been dumped back at the dealers door big time regardless of cost. Another idea I had would have been to drive onto the middle of Tower Bridge stop and set it alight. To make a problem noticed one has to take drastic action. I can only repeat what I said months ago avoid FIAT like the plague. They never will have an answer to the present problem, its impossible unless the chassis and gearbox/clutch are all replaced in total. They all form an integral part of the basic design. Buy a Mercedes ! What a smug posting. My previous vehicle ,Hymer,was on a Ducato and was very reliable,it even reversed on tickover!. When I came to order my new Autotrail I asked for it on a Mercedes chassis,a few days later I was informed that for 2008 they were only using Fiats. Who is the more upset Me or Autotrail,probably me cos AT have got my hard earned cash. I find the comments in this posting of no benefit whatsoever to this ongoing deplorable situation. May I add that when I manage to find some resolution to this diabolical affair,it will be a cold day in Hell before I even think about buying another Fiat or any of its clone!!!! >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 libby - 2009-05-31 4:21 PM Having looked, listened and made comments on the FIAT disgrace since it started. I'm of the centuries old opinion that its simply 'buyer beware' when buying any product. Trust no one. Believe no one. Make your own judgement. That buyers still believe the stories eminating from FIAT is amazing. I can understand Andy and a few others being caught out with their new purchases at the start but for anyone who has bought a faulty vehicle after reading these forums since this started I really have little sympathy. Do your homework is the only answer. For many years FIAT have produced second rate vehicles. Research the owners and financiers of FIAT and it will lead you to the source of their problems. If it were me that had bought a duff M/H it would have been dumped back at the dealers door big time regardless of cost. Another idea I had would have been to drive onto the middle of Tower Bridge stop and set it alight. To make a problem noticed one has to take drastic action. I can only repeat what I said months ago avoid FIAT like the plague. They never will have an answer to the present problem, its impossible unless the chassis and gearbox/clutch are all replaced in total. They all form an integral part of the basic design. Buy a Mercedes ! What a smug posting. My previous vehicle ,Hymer,was on a Ducato and was very reliable,it even reversed on tickover!. When I came to order my new Autotrail I asked for it on a Mercedes chassis,a few days later I was informed that for 2008 they were only using Fiats. Who is the more upset Me or Autotrail,probably me cos AT have got my hard earned cash. I find the comments in this posting of no benefit whatsoever to this ongoing deplorable situation. May I add that when I manage to find some resolution to this diabolical affair,it will be a cold day in Hell before I even think about buying another Fiat or any of its clone!!!! >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Hi Libby, A lot of what you say is correct, but the buyer may not have access to a computer,a lot of the over fifties are not computer literate,which I believe is the age groups that buys the most Motorhomes, which then follows "doing their homework" can only consist of buying Motorhome Magazines ,which only tells the prospective buyer what the Chassis /Converter/Dealer want them to know, Not many people who write in/e mail ,Magazines with complaints about a given Motorhome ever get their message published, and if you ask the majority of dealers even now you will be told there is no Problem or that Fiat have solved that one,If you try word of mouth again there are a hell of a lot of owners who dont think they have a problem with thier X250 , and as you have heard on this forum some are fed up of people approaching them asking if they have got a problem, as they say they dont have and dont want to be repeatedly approached and asked that question, I have got friends with a M/H based on the X250 and they say they dont have a problem, yet when they were doing a three point turn in my drive I could smell the clutch , its not for me to dictate to them, My computer was down when I was looking at buying a M/H based on the dread Fiat X250 chassis, and had to rely on what I was reading in M/H magazines and talking to owners of motorhomes and a last resort Dealers, but no mention of reverse gear problems , it was all under bonnet scuttle,s etc ,as for dumping it on the dealers forecourt , once you have bought it from them then that's where their interest in you ends, you would then get charged for storage, I e mailed Burstner in Germany, complaining that I,d bought one of thier M/H and was reluctant to use it due to the reverse gear problems ,the courteous reply more or less said there is nothing we can do as we dont have the expertise to deal with Mechanical problems of the base vehicle and to contact Fiat, and It cost me to much to take it to any Bridge and set fire to it as much as I would like to, this will be the last Fiat I will ever buy, I should have stayed with VWs,but we live and learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I appreciate the replies which are not meant to offend, they are my opinion of the facts as I see them and my lifelong view of FIAT. They built pretty crap military equipment in the 40's, then some of their 1960's cars were awfull, and now ................ ? Research the FIAT financiers too I suggested and you may begin to arrive at the same result as myself why an answer to the present problem will never be forthcoming. By research and carefull scrutiny of the industry in general and as I said disbelieving ALL salesmen, I still took 6 years to decide. There is no answer to those who buy by colour or pretty interiors or because the lady of the house thinks it is right. And those who become annoyed at hard questions are simply living in cloud cuckoo land afraid to admit to their spouse they've bought a duffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I know some people with this problem have contacted BBC's "Watchdog", but have been unsuccesful in getting the problem on there. Last week, on the BBC "One Show", they appealed for any consumers with a problem to get in touch & their Dom Littlewood will take up the case. Maybe a long shot, but if you could get that sort of publicity it might just get Fiat to do something positive instead of their present faffing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Edited...as nothing to do with the subject as are too many of the posts above and from people with nothing worthwhile to contribute, being non owners of the base vehicles in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 edit - deleted post. Not wanting to be embroiled in an argument which seems to have started to develope - change of heart ..let sleeping dogs lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 emmbeedee - 2009-05-31 10:41 PM I know some people with this problem have contacted BBC's "Watchdog", but have been unsuccesful in getting the problem on there. Last week, on the BBC "One Show", they appealed for any consumers with a problem to get in touch & their Dom Littlewood will take up the case. Maybe a long shot, but if you could get that sort of publicity it might just get Fiat to do something positive instead of their present faffing about. Hi, Have the BBC given any reason why they would not get involved in this issue? Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Libby said "They built pretty crap military equipment in the 40's," Stories state that Italian war vehicles went very well in reverse :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 euroserv - 2009-05-29 11:50 AM I thought that Mr Marchionne was aware that it is better and more profitable to build 1 million vehicles well, without excessive warranty issues than to build 5 million vehicles badly. I wish he would stop piddling around with Opel and concentrate on fulfilling the promises made to his customers by his marketing people. And while I am ranting... does anyone else think that Ferrari's need to spend 100 million pounds a year on F1 something of a p*** take? Have a nice day. Nick I agree Nick! But with a lower build volume scheduled would the unit price reflect the lack of economy of scale? In which case an X250 might well cost the same as a VWT5 or Sprinter - and who in their right mind would pay that sort of money for a FIAT - no matter how good it was alleged to be? The damage is done and Fiat are now condemned to a continuing future as a maker of second class vehicles. I agree about Ferrari - what F1 needs in my view is more competition not less! If they choose to withdraw it would be sad but probably F1 would survive and prosper without Ferrari - no one team is so important that it prevents the sport from developing and the current F1 club is a very expensive one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj8one Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Relatively new here Seems that we need a larger voice to put our points to fiat, has anyone considered contacting BBC Watchdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 aj8one - 2009-06-01 4:14 PM Relatively new here Seems that we need a larger voice to put our points to fiat, has anyone considered contacting BBC Watchdog Many times but from watchdogs replies to me they need more complaints before they will listen. So get writing to Watchdog I think the new season starts September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj8one Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 surelyomeone on here knows someone @ the beeb or what about radio 2 johnny walker heres a motorhome owner maybe he could help must know someone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 aj8one - 2009-06-02 9:11 AM surelyomeone on here knows someone @ the beeb or what about radio 2 johnny walker heres a motorhome owner maybe he could help must know someone Thats been done a few people contacted JW standard auto reply no action but why not try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Same here contact JW at the same time as Watchdog. Also been trying to send report to Dom on the One show but link is broke. Is Fiat running the Beeb? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Hi, Against all the accumulated wisdom on this thread, and many of you will say we are sure against all human sense, we have purchased and now taken delivery of a Swift Escape on the Fiat 100 multi jet engine!!! (Even worse we purchase from that well known dealer based in Newark). Well we are delighted with the van. We got an excellant deal and service from dealer has been great. Layout is just what we wanted with very good build quality (note Escape has just won Caravan Club Motorhome of year). Regarding the dreaded judder then reversing on flat no problem, onto levelling blocks no problem, up our gravel hardstanding no problem, up a couple of fairly steep local hills no problem (we live in the Pennines so plenty of hills). What to make of this? Well no more than our van does not appear to suffer from the judder problem; this does not mean we do not have sympathy for those who clearly have problems, but those of us who do not, particularly 100 owners, need also to record this to give a balanced picture. O.K. we have not attempted reversing up a narrow 1 in 4 hill, as in 25 years of vanning, from North Cape down to Southern Italy and much in between, we have never had to, but not to say anything against those of you who want to. In conclusion we saw a van we liked, got a great deal, felt the 100 given would be fine given normal use and for now looks a good bet; in the future who knows buit we are positive. Jean and Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Why don't some of you with these faults do something like this:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190340/Rovers-revenge-Furious-driver-dumps-50-000-Range-Rover-outside-showroom--emblazoned-list-faults.html Instead of parking it up just drive around in the normal way. That way you will get the message across to all and sundry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin9591 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Today, by chance, in the newsagents, I bumped into the Sales Director and proprietor of the local Fiat garage. We had previously entered into serious discussions on the supply of a Ducato base vehicle for our custom build project. He told me that they had yesterday done their first gearbox fix, lower ratio, mounts & clutch on a Ducato. "Oh", said I, "Did that fix the problem?" Shrugging his shoulders he said "Don't know, how's your project coming along?" I said, "Got it sorted, nice wagon, no issues" "How's that?", he said. "I bought a Renault", said I. He laughed and smiled and went on his way. Obviously Fiat are not too concerned by this issue, even when it has and will continue to lose them sales and reputation. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanracer Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 RoyH - 2009-06-02 10:40 PM Why don't some of you with these faults do something like this:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190340/Rovers-revenge-Furious-driver-dumps-50-000-Range-Rover-outside-showroom--emblazoned-list-faults.html Instead of parking it up just drive around in the normal way. That way you will get the message across to all and sundry. Thtats also been done at least once and also posted on youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 robertandjean - 2009-06-02 8:58 PM Hi, Against all the accumulated wisdom on this thread, and many of you will say we are sure against all human sense, we have purchased and now taken delivery of a Swift Escape on the Fiat 100 multi jet engine!!! (Even worse we purchase from that well known dealer based in Newark). Well we are delighted with the van. We got an excellent deal and service from dealer has been great. Layout is just what we wanted with very good build quality (note Escape has just won Caravan Club Motorhome of year). Regarding the dreaded judder then reversing on flat no problem, onto levelling blocks no problem, up our gravel hardstanding no problem, up a couple of fairly steep local hills no problem (we live in the Pennines so plenty of hills). What to make of this? Well no more than our van does not appear to suffer from the judder problem; this does not mean we do not have sympathy for those who clearly have problems, but those of us who do not, particularly 100 owners, need also to record this to give a balanced picture. O.K. we have not attempted reversing up a narrow 1 in 4 hill, as in 25 years of vanning, from North Cape down to Southern Italy and much in between, we have never had to, but not to say anything against those of you who want to. In conclusion we saw a van we liked, got a great deal, felt the 100 given would be fine given normal use and for now looks a good bet; in the future who knows buit we are positive. Jean and Robert :-D Hi Robert and Jean, I for one am Really and sincerely pleased, You have what seems to be the exception to the rule with you Fiat based Motorhome, You have got we hope, what we all wanted in the first place a base vehicle to do what the Manufacturers said it would do without Judder, and its nice to hear of Dealership,s now treating their customers like they should, I wish you Lots of Luck and enjoyment with your purchase I can only hope for a likewise result from my forthcoming Modification to my Expensive Folly. Perhaps forums like this one do have some impact on Dealers as well, we can only hope, But I,m really pleased for you both ,Safe Journeys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Going to the stratford on avon show this weekend and as alongshot is anyone going with a recent Vw/Mercedes Murvi morello that we can have a look at re the effect of the narrower body as we are more than fed up with the arrogance/diffidenceof Fiat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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