rolandrat Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Regarding DMF transmissions look up pmm@hamerville .co.uk THE WHEEL DEAL on page 62 it is very interesting reading and will answer many questions about the problems that can occurr with the latest saville motorhomes using this type of clutch and the vibrating. I dont think Fiat would be very happy about us reading about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 PMM stands for Professional Motor Mechanic so look up www.pmm@hamerville.co.uk page 62 onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Dear all, Just in case you missed my earlier posting, and before everyone goes off at a tangent.... The 2.3 engined Ducato does not have a Dual Mass Flywheel. They are truly the work of the devil them DMF's, but they are not to blame here! Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Don't bother the link doesn't work. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Neither does the MMM server by the looks of it. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Melvin - 2009-06-09 7:57 AM I thought this might intrest you people Our Ref: /RCU -000XXXX 08 June 2009 Dear Mr xxxxx Re: Your vehicle Reg No: XXXXXXX Model: Ducato Motorhome Following Fiat Group Automobiles UK Ltd’s response to your case and information from you advising the judder was still occurring, I went back to Fiat and have been advised of the following. The manufacturer is happy with the performance of the vehicle. The Fiat dealership has completed the modification and is happy with the work completed. They have confirmed that the information from the dealership is sufficient enough to close the case. Fiat initially advised they will not be carrying out any further work. They state the vehicle is performing within their design parameters. The modification has been successful and a slight adaption of driving style maybe required when performing some manoeuvres. However, they have now spoken with their technical department and will arrange an inspection with the dealership (Platt’s). They will complete an inspection to confirm all the modifications have been completed properly and that the vehicle is responding correctly. However they are sure that this is the case but will carry this last inspection in order to confirm should you wish to proceed via legal routes. The dealership will contact you directly when a date has been arranged. Fiat is aware of your internet posts on Motorhome forums and the information you have reported. They are confident that the modifications have been completed correctly. Following the above information, I will await the outcome of the inspection and be in touch in due course. Yours sincerely CONTACT DETAILS REMOVED BY MODERATOR Fiat is aware of your internet posts? is this some sort of attempt at censorship if not why did they mention it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 jhorst "Quote:- Fiat is aware of your internet posts? is this some sort of attempt at censorship if not why did they mention it ?Quote" You are correct Fiat do monitor this site and have sent out PM's or in my case an E-mail so I have removed that from my profile. If you want to advise anyone of something contentious or organise a function then do it via PM's. Just remember a comment on this or any other forum is open to all, whether a good or bad comment or information. That's why it works so well, the amount of usefull information and help that I have been given is worth its weight in gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Fiat is aware of your internet posts? is this some sort of attempt at censorship if not why did they mention it ? Probably not, however, we vent our frustrations on these posts, it is our only outlet, and at least they are still monitoring it. At the end of the day nothing is going to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Perhaps if Fiat communicated with its customers in a more reasonable manner, were open and honest instead of giving out misleading information then maybe this forum would be dead and buried by now. If you are reading this Mr Fiat can you explain why the 100 multijet is fitted with a gearbox that has a reverse gear of 3.154:1 and the 2.3 and 3 ltr which has juddering problems is fitted with a 4.083:1. No wonder there is a problem, with the best flywheel and clutch fitted they will be prone to transmission problems throughout service. Give us some straight forward honest answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliB Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 "Give us some straight forward honest answers" Or even some straight reverse honest answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Maxi 40 chassis with 2.3 engine reverse gear 3.154:1, approximately 18% higher than first, after transmission modifications 10% higher than first gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Melvin, Where have you got the spec regarding the reverse gear ratio from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tof Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I had a call from Fiat two weeks ago saying that they would be arranging for modifications to gearbox etc to my Maxi 250 2.3 and that the company carrying out the repair would be Haynes Trucks of Maidstone, that facility being the nearest capable of carrying out the necesarry modifications to my motorhome. I am based around Canterbury Kent (Northgate Fiat is much nearer). Has anyone else been 'modified' at this garage facility? if so, I would be interested to hear the results please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 I have no info on Fiats garage of choice for you but they do not have local knowledge. For one of the earlier recalls they asked me to cross the Solent to the Isle of Wight simply because on their computer as the crow flies it was the closest, no matter the cost to me of taking my vehicle across one of the most expensive stretches of water in the world. Also I have found not all Fiat service garages are capable of gearbox work due to lack of tooling. However if your garage of choice can do the work you should have no difficulty in switching to them rather than Fiats choice. I have done this for some of the earlier easier recalls simply for the availability of a courtesy car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanYoung Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Had a call today from my local Fiat Professional dealer who carried out the replacement of the engine mounts to my Ducato 2.3 6-speed Swift Bolero 630EK on 12th May. He asked for a copy of the V55 to confirm the date of vehicle registration (in my case 1/12/07), as they are unable to obtain payment from Fiat for the work carried out. Fiat claim that there is some anomaly in the warranty period for base vehicles sold to Swift on 26/7/07. Does this mean that Fiat regard the commencement date for the warranty period as the date supplied to the converter rather than the date that the vehicle was supplied to the customer? In my case some 4+ months. It is also a month now since this modification, which as everyone knows does not resolve the issue and I have heard nothing about any further modifications. Seems that Fiat treat their dealers as poorly as their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanYoung Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Had a call today from my local Fiat Professional dealer who carried out the replacement of the engine mounts to my Ducato 2.3 6-speed Swift Bolero 630EK on 12th May. He asked for a copy of the V55 to confirm the date of vehicle registration (in my case 1/12/07), as they are unable to obtain payment from Fiat for the work carried out. Fiat claim that there is some anomaly in the warranty period for base vehicles sold to Swift on 26/7/07. Does this mean that Fiat regard the commencement date for the warranty period as the date supplied to the converter rather than the date that the vehicle was supplied to the customer? In my case some 4+ months. It is also a month now since this modification, which as everyone knows does not resolve the issue and I have heard nothing about any further modifications. Seems that Fiat treat their dealers as poorly as their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Melvin, Where have you got the reverse gear ratio spec from mentioned on the 10th of June post? The spec I have states:- 120 multijet reverse 4.083:1. Final drive for light chassis 4.222:1 and maxi 5.231:1. The lower final drive means that the engine will give more mph at lower engine revs. A commercial vehicle I once owned revved its head off at 50 mph because it was fitted with a diff that was 4.5:1 so I bought another which was 3.691:1, the result was amazing, it cruised on the motorway at 60mph and the fuel consumption improved no end. If I had fitted a Turner-Clarke coach gearbox as well it would have taken off. NO CLUTCH JUDDER EITHER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Rolandrat, I contacted Fiat Profesional in Nov 2008, they supplied me with the official figures: Reverse Gear ratio 1:3,154 Final Drive 1:5,231 Total Ratio 1:16,499 Speed per 1000 RPM 5.13 mph I recently looked at the Australian site first and sixth gear are identical to my ratios, however, my original reverse gear ratio was 3.154, the Australin site data shows current reverse gear ratio 4.222, that 33.86% lower than mine, but what is more significant reverse is lower than first gear 13.28%. So what is going on, are the transmission being fitted to the Australian vans different, with a lower reverse gear ratio. If this is the case fitting the 5.231 diff in place of the Australian spec 4.222, should solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Melvin, It looks like something misleading going on with the specs because the 3.154:1 ratio is fitted to the 100multijet gearbox and the 4.083:1 is fitted to the 120multi gearbox and also the 160multijet. Final drive for the 100 is 4.933:1 120 is 4.222:1, the maxi is 5.231:1 and the 160 is4.222:1 and the maxi is 4.563:1. If the 3.154:1 reverse ratio had been fitted to all the gearboxes in the first place then may be we wouldn't be in this situation. The only way to assess this situation properly would be to have a gearbox stripped down on a bench because whilst we can discuss ratios till we are blue in the face we have no idea what the layshaft ratios are. All the specs quoted on the internet could be deliberately misleading. One day no doubt, all will be revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Hello Rolandrat et al, We have an accident damaged 35 Maxi 2.3 Ducato that we will be stripping down in the next week or so and will be able to post on here all of the gory details about the internals of the gearbox. I would ask that Fiat (who are monitoring this site) to dispel the rumours once and for all as regards the actual ratios inside our gearboxes, which as owners we are entitled to know and make informed decisions about. It seems pretty clear that the published specifications were incorrect and there has either been genuine mistakes made or deliberate mis-information generated in order to disguise a major error in the design process. In any case, the answers that we seek will shortly be at hand. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 It is good to know that Euroserv is providing the forum with such good actual information. Thank you. It is a pity that Fiat do not have the same attitude. Somehow I suspect that they are pleased that the forum members have become interested in guessing/proposing solutions (which Fiat will of course ignore) as this diverts attention away from posts which "Tell it like it is". It's a shame that one company can cause so much grief to so many that have spent good money on their lifes dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Your M/H or any vehicle or indeed anything in life should never become a feature of ones dreams. Most articles are commercialy produced products at a cost and are not designed to survive for any set length of time. Life revolves around commerse. FIAT have financiers and they control the plot. Beware before you buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted June 15, 2009 Share Posted June 15, 2009 Nick (Euroserv), You are a STAR, hopefully when you get into the gearbox all will be revealed and the true ratios will be established. I was going to advertise for one to be able to do just like you are doing but I wont bother now. Roland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsgofar Posted June 17, 2009 Share Posted June 17, 2009 Hi All, Our 2.3L multijet 6 speed is due in on Monday for Engine Suspension as it's now called, I will keep you informed in due course. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Copied from Bill's 'reverse gear' thread bill booth - 2009-06-18 9:33 PM Set off with grand kids for weekend camp,got 12 miles from home no drive,called AA got vehicle back to dealers told that a spring in the clutch broken .This part not covered by warranty vehicle 26 months old 10,000 miles on clock dealer suggested ringing customer care at Fiats,costs expected to be £800-£900 plus vat.Fiat said that this would have been covered by them if vehicle was under 2 years old must say the gearbox has been reported still waiting.Outcome of this problem Fiat would pay for the parts also 4 hours lab costs at £70 +vat I would contribute 2 hours lab cost.So I am pleased only wish they would listen in Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.