mirage Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I take it then that in the large number of Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen Motorhomes and Commercial Vans you must have seen in France you could only find one with steamed up headlights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 My wifes Ford KA has a steamed up H/light because I didn't put it back together properly last time I changed a bulb. Maybe that's what was wrong with the one Derek Uzzell saw. That said, can we please not polute this thread with other topics as it will quickly get out of hand. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itexuk Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 My Fiat garage phoned yesterday to say parts have arrived, Engine mounts + tie rod. It is going in on Thursday and I will let you know how I get on. Will take some pictures of the parts if allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 mirage - 2009-07-06 10:20 PM I take it then that in the large number of Fiat, Peugeot and Citroen Motorhomes and Commercial Vans you must have seen in France you could only find one with steamed up headlights? That's an irrational comment. I don't waste my holidays deliberately inspecting motorhomes to see if there is anything technically odd about them but, in this instance, the French Ducato-based motorhome's headlights (both of them) were so glaringly (literally) peculiar that it caught my eye. Recalling that Nick Fisher, within this thread, had included headlamp condensation problems among his recent scathing criticisms of X250 Ducatos, I thought it worth mentioning. For what it's worth, I saw several of X250 motorhomes being manoeuvred on grass and on slopes - in either direction - and none of them were noticeably shaking about or showing any evidence that their clutches /gearboxes were under stress. Does that imply that the juddering problem does not exist in France, or (to use a mirror-image of your comment) that I only saw French motorhomes that were OK? Of course it doesn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Hello Campers, On the off-topic subject of headlights we have 14 07 plate Ducatos and 7 have had new headlamps under warranty. None of the 08 plate vans have had any misting problems though, so it is possible (although unlikely) that they have been improved. I can't see any difference and the part number has not changed so I suspect not. Replacements cost over £100 and some delicate panel removal is required so I strongly recommend that you get any issues dealt with before your warranty runs out. You would only fail the MOT test if the misting affects the beam pattern, which in mild cases it would probably not. Your first MOT will in most cases coincide with the end of your warranty so, again, get it sorted before the warranty runs out. I now have my second 07 van with a crunching noise going into 4th gear, this one is out of warranty now with only 60,000 miles on it. This was typical of the previous gearboxes on the old 2.8JTD and therefore I am unimpressed. I honestly don't know what vans I will be buying in the future but this has put me off Fiat for sure , even with the slightly greater leverage we have with the dealers and Fiat. I can only say that an individual would have to be barking to buy anything from Fiat or any of the Sevel vans for that matter. And that neatly brings us back on topic... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksebruce Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Hi, when at Carlops CL site (hardstanding) our x250 juddered severly when backing on. There was a slight uphill slope. Just got van back from North East Trucks who have fitted new engine mounts and tie bar. When we got back to our storage there is a slope about twice as severe as Carlops so tried it a few times. No judder Still a bit fast when clutch fully released but out of curiosity tried the same in the car and it's just as fast. When trying the van out I couldn't make it judder. North East Trucks say that when we've been to Mythholmeroyd (again a CL) all grass with quite severe slopes in places I have to ring and if there is still a problem then they will do the clutch and flywheel and as a last resort a lower ratio reverse gear. So far well pleased but I will keep you updated. Off to Mythholmeroyd at end of this month. BTW 2.3 6 speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike P Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 just got the call from County Motors in Carlisle to say they have kit B (engine mounts & gearbox parts). Booked the van in on Tuesday for 3 days, should get it back for Pickering show. will report results Mike P 2.3, 6 speed box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Bruce Quinton - 2009-07-09 2:29 PM As the owner, from new, of a 2007 Registered X250 platform Motorhome I am long overdue in joining the ever growing list of dissatisfied customers. Not only does the fault itself pass all comprehension in this day and age, it is aggravated by the fact that there seems virtually no prospect of a long term remedy at this time. Add to to this the fact that, despite their claim to the contrary Fiat consistently fail to return calls for updates etc. leads me to to believe they are NOT taking this issue seriously. It is my belief that the time is fast approaching when some form of litigation is required. Otherwise we all may left with a legacy of valueless, unsaleable Motorhomes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Mine's going in for the first stage of the fix on 23rd July. Will let you know how it goes. *-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 colin - 2009-07-09 2:38 PM Bruce Quinton - 2009-07-09 2:29 PM As the owner, from new, of a 2007 Registered X250 platform Motorhome I am long overdue in joining the ever growing list of dissatisfied customers. Not only does the fault itself pass all comprehension in this day and age, it is aggravated by the fact that there seems virtually no prospect of a long term remedy at this time. Add to to this the fact that, despite their claim to the contrary Fiat consistently fail to return calls for updates etc. leads me to to believe they are NOT taking this issue seriously. It is my belief that the time is fast approaching when some form of litigation is required. Otherwise we all may left with a legacy of valueless, unsaleable Motorhomes! Welcome to forum Bruce but you really are 'flogging an old very dead horse here.' No one is going to take Fiat to court on this, many like you have talked about it but you will not do anything. Fiat seem to have won this one and even people like Andy who have made most noise seem fairly ok with the fix. I note that all the winning M/H's in the last CC awards are Fiat based so they seem to be going from strength to strength rather than losing out by the problems. I suspect this is because most people who have them, including me, are quite happy. I have now covered some 12,500 miles in about 14 months and not a single problem with the Fiat side, no judder, no water in engine, no misting headlights. Not trying to be clever or smug here just stating simply facts as they apply to me. I have always hoped that all with a problem got it fixed and agree Fiat did a bad public relations job but it is slowly doing just what they hoped, disappearing from sight. Their have been several calls for public demo's at shows etc but all talk again it did not happen. It is easy to post on forums but much harder to actually get off your back**** and do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 rupert123 - 2009-07-09 10:39 PM colin - 2009-07-09 2:38 PM Bruce Quinton - 2009-07-09 2:29 PM As the owner, from new, of a 2007 Registered X250 platform Motorhome I am long overdue in joining the ever growing list of dissatisfied customers. Not only does the fault itself pass all comprehension in this day and age, it is aggravated by the fact that there seems virtually no prospect of a long term remedy at this time. Add to to this the fact that, despite their claim to the contrary Fiat consistently fail to return calls for updates etc. leads me to to believe they are NOT taking this issue seriously. It is my belief that the time is fast approaching when some form of litigation is required. Otherwise we all may left with a legacy of valueless, unsaleable Motorhomes! Welcome to forum Bruce but you really are 'flogging an old very dead horse here.' No one is going to take Fiat to court on this, many like you have talked about it but you will not do anything. Fiat seem to have won this one and even people like Andy who have made most noise seem fairly ok with the fix. I note that all the winning M/H's in the last CC awards are Fiat based so they seem to be going from strength to strength rather than losing out by the problems. I suspect this is because most people who have them, including me, are quite happy. I have now covered some 12,500 miles in about 14 months and not a single problem with the Fiat side, no judder, no water in engine, no misting headlights. Not trying to be clever or smug here just stating simply facts as they apply to me. I have always hoped that all with a problem got it fixed and agree Fiat did a bad public relations job but it is slowly doing just what they hoped, disappearing from sight. Their have been several calls for public demo's at shows etc but all talk again it did not happen. It is easy to post on forums but much harder to actually get off your back**** and do something. Rupert you are very lucky, have you not camped in an area with hills? perhaps your conversion is a lightweight. Unfortunately mine juddered after only 200m m iles reversing onto a pitch . I am dissapointed in a chassis that was specifically built for motorhomes and especially dissapointed that the converter continued to build on it when faults had been reported fo nearly 2 years prior. As for public demos in my view these just attract the wrong elements on both sides and also numbers of anarchists spoiling for a fight with the police. We should be able to use our knowledge and experience to argue of corner backed up with technical data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Will, I live in the middle of Snowdonia and go to the Alps every year so yes I have seen a few hills. My conversion is light, 3300kgs, but this has nothing to do with my comments. I did say that some had problems but also pointed out my remarks are only based on my personal experience. However the facts remain whether we like it or not, Fiat based vans continue to win awards, Fiat are not showing any sign of losing market share, the media have lost the small interest they had. Most buyers who have even heard about this will be convinced problems are in the past. What is answer, wish I knew, but suspect people who are still in trouble can only keep pressing Fiat in the hope the modifications work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoHomer Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 From Rupert 123's post - "..........Fiat based vans continue to win awards............" You're right - example, the 2009 Design and Drive Awards from the very eminent Caravan Club (with a Welcome statement from Rachel Stothert, incidentally) which were dominated by Sevel based vans, although when you look closer the competition wasn't exactly strongly represented in the entry field, which will have skewed the result. Maybe the Sevel convertors just beat the others to the available entry slots, or maybe the competition just couldn't be bothered to submit any entries, or maybe they're selling so many vans they didn't need the extra kudos/publicity....OK, this last one's unlikely. Importantly, nowhere in the blurb is there any mention of transmission probs, which, given the standing of the CC and the evident and undoubted expertise of its panel of testers, must be encouraging to intending purchasers of brand new vans of the types tested, at least? If I was a rookie, intending buyer of a new van I know I would look very hard at including Award Winners and Runners Up in my short list. But as an interested observer, from the Ford camp as it happens, of this controversy from the beginning, I confess it's all rather puzzling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Thanks Rupert. My vehicle is an Auto trail Scout at around 4.5 tons I think AT pushed past the limit for this chassis. As for awards if no one else enters they will win I think some of them are contrived especially 'car/van of the year'. A new vehicle is awrded that honour before it even goes on sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Interesting post from Johncrossmotorhomes on the MHF forum. They state they have no problems with the X250 vans and will happily purchase them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Interesting qoute from the dealer. In july edition of Caravan Club magazine see www.seered.co.uk/fiat.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Another post transfered to this thread. heraldbank - 2009-07-11 12:42 PM I've just had the gear box upgrade done on my six speed Nuevo boxer. Testing on a 1 in 6 slope shows a definite improvement once the clutch is in. It is now possible to reverse smoothly at a little over walking pace. There is still a judder whilst engaging the clutch so the problem is not fully solved but it is better. It has been suggested to me that using 1300 rpm before engaging the clutch is helpful but I've not tried this yet. Has anyone else ? This judder is a pity because in all other ways the vehicle is very pleasant to drive. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Do not kid yourselves that awards are indepedantly based, the big manufacturers have clout and can 'persuade' anyone to write anything. The dealers look after number one make no mistake about that. They have no intention of losing their jobs just because a few buyers complain. Unless 500 or more of the complaintants did something serious like I suggested some while ago on Tower Bridge you're all wasting your time and FIAT know it. The only answer is to base your future purchases on past experience with this fiasco being a prime example. Unfortunately most human beings are like sheep and follow what they're told and have zero thoughts, that why instore loyalty cards are popular, people really believe they're designed for just for them. Mentality sheep disorder I call it. (MSD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeti Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 rupert123 - 2009-07-11 7:07 PM Interesting post from Johncrossmotorhomes on the MHF forum. They state they have no problems with the X250 vans and will happily purchase them. Being dealers they would say that. I wonder how many hirers will repeat next time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 libby - 2009-07-11 9:06 PM Do not kid yourselves that awards are indepedantly based, the big manufacturers have clout and can 'persuade' anyone to write anything. The dealers look after number one make no mistake about that. They have no intention of losing their jobs just because a few buyers complain. Unless 500 or more of the complaintants did something serious like I suggested some while ago on Tower Bridge you're all wasting your time and FIAT know it. The only answer is to base your future purchases on past experience with this fiasco being a prime example. Unfortunately most human beings are like sheep and follow what they're told and have zero thoughts, that why instore loyalty cards are popular, people really believe they're designed for just for them. Mentality sheep disorder I call it. (MSD) It does not matter much how you view awards they are taken notice off and as for buying on past experience my past experience of Fiat is all good. The bit about most are like sheep, what arrogance this is, I assume you exclude yourself from this remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Them's harsh words Henry. I did have sheeps clothing at one time, its now very old mutton cloth. My dear Henry, awards are for the industry not for you and me, they are aimed to bolster the 'well being' of a company by collecting more 'brownie points'. "Well being" refers to a compay's financial stability. Do you really admit to never seeing a line of motorists tailgating each other along any dual carriageway then you cannot drive that much, they are in my view imitating sheep, I see them every day in my fields. And why are loyalty cards given (ney sold very dearly), because people are like sheep and have the need to follow the one in front lest they miss a trick. Since my wife became unwell I do all the shopping, the cost has been reduced by 60%. She was loyal I am not. Me arrogant ? Well yes if you wish to use those names, I call it individuality which enables me to be a thinking person and research all Motorhomes and other objects before making a decision. Me thinks Henry that you have little idea of the real world. Make a comment if you like, as you usually do, by ridiculing others on their personal views, to which I shall not reply. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Bill - don't worry about Henry - he is well known for his inflexible strong views and for defending Fiat! Apparently his the only van that we know about that Fiat built that actually works properly! There is of course every risk that if you or I bought one that it too would work properly? Then again whilst I wish Henry every happiness with his van and I am glad that he is so happy - I personally would not take that risk - either new or especially second hand! No doubt many more sheep will follow Henry, many unknowingly because the CC said so - which is scandalous enough in itself but maybe a few will read this forum and will choose to not become sheep after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Which ever way you cut this cake there is major fault with the x250 transmission.Degrees of problem vary and can be down to a number of factors:Weight of vehicle,driver technique,quality of original components,severity of test etc etc But there is one thing that is common to ALL x250's the reverse gear ratio is to high and to control speed in a confined space you have to slip the clutch.To much importance has been attached to the word judder this tends to occur when trying to move at a crawl with the clutch full out problem agrivated when on a slope so you slip and dip causing premature clutch failure. I have had the big fix and there is improvement but it still ain't right I find myself being ultra carefull of likley reversing places and aviod slopes/hills where ever possible. Would I buy an X250 knowing what I now know no way why put problems into your life that can be avioded. The x 250 is a fine vehicle in many ways but even when this mess is sorted on future models I would be reluctant to trust FIAT in case of other problems and there attitude to customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I agree with colin, various degrees of the problem, but still a faulty vehicle. However even if the vehicle was ok, is there a good reason not to purchase from a company whose PR and customer care appears to be very poor? For example if a particular supplier if white goods/TV's/computers had very little or no aftersales care would you buy from them or go elsewhere ? Only people who embrace the " it wont happen to me therefore I dont care about aftersales" will continue to buy and then probably moan when they get caught out. It is still Caveat Emptor - we on this and other forums are informed, but there are a lot who have no knowlege of the problem. I pointed my friend at this forum and he crossed one make off of his short list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kedavi Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I too have pointed two potential purchasers towards this thread and they too have firmly ruled out an X250 base vehicle. And I have a relative who already has an X250 that judders - they really fancied a Fiat 500 but have now bought a Toyota Aygo instead, directly because of their experiences with their crappy transmission. As for me, I have already decided that I won't ever consider another of Fiat's vehicles because of my experience with this one. FIAT - this is already costing you sales - get it sorted properly and quickly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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