Stewart Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Mike, I had the first stage of Fiat's fix (ie engine mountings) done a few weeks ago but this had no noticeable effect, as you would expect. I am now waiting for the next stage which I hope will be the mods to the gearbox and clutch. Your post encourages me to think it might do some good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Tracker - 2009-07-28 12:37 PM Off topic maybe but I would agree with Nick about fuel consumption. Every set of new regulations starting with catalytic converters has worsened the real life fuel economy of most vehicles and all in the name of saving the planet. What a load of rubbish! My current car has all this stop start and regenerative crap and although the VCA theoretical fuel consumption figures are amazing given it's power the reality is somewhat different and it is no better in the real world than the car that it replaced and is supposed to be so much better than! The only consolation is a reduced VED! How on Earth can using more fuel to do the same job be better for the planet - but if it keeps the eco bandits at bay I suppose that is a good thing! I'm sticking the the previous model Boxer for the forseeable future and am seriously thinking of going back to a pre cat, no depreciation, no gizmos 'classic' for everyday use. I'll flog you my 1987 Toyota Supra 3 Ltr, 29 MPG no rust for a good price Richard. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Can anyone tell me what the average wait is for this mod, I notified Fiat UK back in November 2008 and they responded in December 2008 with thier standard letter of notification and a case Number,they phoned me back in May this year asking if a Fiat agent some 50 miles away ( thats local ) was acceptable ,I said it was and nothing since, so phoned them again on Monday 27th, the woman on the other end said she would e mail head office, still waiting, No Prizes for guessing who wont ever buy Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 peter - 2009-07-31 10:02 PM Tracker - 2009-07-28 12:37 PM Off topic maybe but I would agree with Nick about fuel consumption. Every set of new regulations starting with catalytic converters has worsened the real life fuel economy of most vehicles and all in the name of saving the planet. What a load of rubbish! My current car has all this stop start and regenerative crap and although the VCA theoretical fuel consumption figures are amazing given it's power the reality is somewhat different and it is no better in the real world than the car that it replaced and is supposed to be so much better than! The only consolation is a reduced VED! How on Earth can using more fuel to do the same job be better for the planet - but if it keeps the eco bandits at bay I suppose that is a good thing! I'm sticking the the previous model Boxer for the forseeable future and am seriously thinking of going back to a pre cat, no depreciation, no gizmos 'classic' for everyday use. I'll flog you my 1987 Toyota Supra 3 Ltr, 29 MPG no rust for a good price Richard. :D Well, OK, but - I have recorded the fuel consumption on our van (2007 2.2 litre, 130PS, Mk 7 Transit) since new, by noting the actual quantity of fuel bought, and the recorded mileage. Motorway and dual carriageway cruising at 65MPH, UK non-dualled 60MPH (wherever possible), Euro non-dualled roads 90KPH (wherever possible), cab aircon used extensively.Last time we re-fuelled the totals were 2,389 litres and 15,971 miles. That, according to my calcs, is an average of 28.92 MPG. Not bad for a vehicle that normally runs at around 3.2 tonnes! Oh yes, and it is Euro 4 compliant.Our previous van, similar size and weight, not Euro 4 compliant, was 2005, 2.8 litre, 146 PS, Ducato based and, used in a similar way, consumed 2,352 litres over 20,554 KM, or (again according to my calcs) around 24.65 MPG.So, some real world advantage then in consumption, and presumably emissions, from all this emissions rubbish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Sorry, double post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Brian, I don't want to go off topic, but your fuel calculation seems wrong.... "Last time we re-fuelled the totals were 2,389 litres and 15,971 miles. That, according to my calcs, is an average of 28.92 MPG. Not bad for a vehicle that normally runs at around 3.2 tonnes! Oh yes, and it is Euro 4 compliant" That works out at 30.4mpg, not the 28.92 you quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 OK eagle eyes, you're right. The calculation omits 772 delivery miles (from Germany), for which I have no fuel record. I forgot those, and mistakenly quoted the gross.Should have known someone would check! :-)'Afraid my own post was already off topic, so apologies to all for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benson Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 I purchased a Swift 590RS in July 2008, my first motorhome after 30 years caravaning and,not having read about the Fiat issue, opted for the upgraded 2.3 Fiat X250 Ducato engine. On arriving home from the dealers I tried reversing up my drive which is on a slight slope and smelt the clutch burning and slight judder. I thought no more about it, and opted instead to drive in rather than reverse. I was not able to use the vehicle very much last year but did get clutch burning in reverse and slight judder. I then started reading about the issue in MMM and realised that I had indeed a problem. I reported the matter to my local dealer some 3/4 months ago and was told that they had multiple complaints registered but that Fiat had no solution to the problem. Recent articles in MMM and on this forum indicate differently! I took a 3 week trip to Lake Garda in June and before going had the vehicle serviced by this dealer. I experienced the inevitable judder and burning. Even worse, I have just had a rather wet week away with the grandchildren in Devon and had considerable trouble reversing on the wet grass with more burning and terrible judder!!! I intend to contact my dealer tomorrow to report this unacceptable situation but do not expect any help from them after their initial reaction. It would appear that you must contact Fiat direct and register your concerns putting considerable pressure on them to get anything done. I also intend doing this, and remember somewhere along the line that a contributor had a contact number for Fiat customer services. Perhaps someone out there can oblige and supply me with that number please? Having just read about the success stories on having a replacement reverse gear fitted, I am curious to know if they had a new clutch fitted as well. I ask this as I must have done some damage to the clutch during this time and am rather loath to have to pay out for a new clutch when the problem lies with Fiat. I would also pose the question that if, god forbid, you were to break down during a journey with gearbox/clutch trouble, would the dealer then be forced into a situation where they had to replace the lot, having denied there was a problem/solution? Also, would this be under warranty? It would be interesting to know if anyone has experienced this. Hopefully, all us Ducato 2.3 users will get satisfaction sooner rather than later, but I am not holding my breath! :'( :'( :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 It doesn't seem to get any better :-( Stewart - 2009-08-02 5:07 PM I had my new engine mounts fitted a few weeks ago as the first "fix" for the reverse judder. I have covered a few hundred miles since then. As I was checking the oil this morning I had a look around the engine bay to see what the new engine mounts looked like. They were easy to spot as the new bolts are so rusty. As you can maybe see from the picture, there are only 3 bolts attaching the nearside mount to the engine. I would have expected 4 bolts as there are 4 holes. What is more difficult to see in the picture is that the bottom left bolt in the picture is undone by a couple of turns. So only two bolts are holding the engine to the mount. I won't be able to speak to my Fiat dealer till tomorrow but would be interested to know what others who have the new mounts have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 It does not look as if the hole with the missing bolt is threaded perhaps someone that has had this mod done could see if they have 4 bolts fitted it surprises me that there was not more knocking from the loose mounting Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 alf - 2009-08-02 7:15 PM It does not look as if the hole with the missing bolt is threaded perhaps someone that has had this mod done could see if they have 4 bolts fitted it surprises me that there was not more knocking from the loose mounting Alf At first, I was just struck by how rusty the bolts were and then I noticed that one of the bolts appeared to be slightly undone. However, it's difficult to see the 4th (non-existent) bolt by looking under the bonnet so I stuck the camera in and took the photo looking towards the nearside wheel arch. This confirmed that there is what appears to be a threaded hole. One thing I should add in the dealer's favour - the mechanic left a few bits of his socket set under the bonnet, presumably so that I could tighten up the bolts myself. By the way, I'd be delighted if anyone confirms that there should only be 3 bolts. Then I could drive home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itexuk Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Sorry, there should be 4 bolts, there is on mine and I have had the mod. Also looks like they used the old bolts and they should have used new ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Stewart - 2009-08-02 8:13 PM alf - 2009-08-02 7:15 PM It does not look as if the hole with the missing bolt is threaded perhaps someone that has had this mod done could see if they have 4 bolts fitted it surprises me that there was not more knocking from the loose mounting Alf At first, I was just struck by how rusty the bolts were and then I noticed that one of the bolts appeared to be slightly undone. However, it's difficult to see the 4th (non-existent) bolt by looking under the bonnet so I stuck the camera in and took the photo looking towards the nearside wheel arch. This confirmed that there is what appears to be a threaded hole. One thing I should add in the dealer's favour - the mechanic left a few bits of his socket set under the bonnet, presumably so that I could tighten up the bolts myself. By the way, I'd be delighted if anyone confirms that there should only be 3 bolts. Then I could drive home. This also points to your van having been handed over to you before the job was finished, which speaks volumes about the competence and quality control of the firm that did the work. The last stage of the job should have been to torque the bolts to the correct setting and, as one bolt is missing and one not fully pulled down, I'd have serious doubts that a torque wrench has been anywhere near your van. Suspect three loose bolts, as well as one missing! If Fiat nominated the firm to you, you really should e-mail your picture to Fiat customer services, with a request that they take the firm to task. You should also make a strong personal complaint to the firm's management about their workmanship, even if Fiat paid. Engines falling out onto the road ain't funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philjp Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Benson. Try 00800 3428 0000 option 3 . Don’t hold your breath I registered in November 2008 and am still awaiting Fiat to arrange for Van to be checked. My warranty runs out in September. I contacted Fiat again last week quoting my ref Number to be told that it had been closed. it was open when i spoke to them in May, when they stated i was on the next Batch . so god help, I have new ref number and there appears to be no Fiat dealer repair Garage in East Wales as the one company that did it now gone into liqudation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith T Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Mine was registered with FIAT in early November, and immediately received the case number. I then chased a couple of times, and got the call a couple of weeks ago,and as van was booked into Chelston for full service etc last week, they got the parts to them for that date. Work done,but no chance to see if anything different as yet, so will test in next week or so,to give Chesltom the feedback,but doesn't actually feel any better or worse! If, like me, you use a mobile phone only,and 'free calls' are certainly not that, there is a Uk landline number for FIAT Ccustomer services 01753 511431, and they seem able to take or pass on the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Itexuk - 2009-08-02 8:24 PM Sorry, there should be 4 bolts, there is on mine and I have had the mod. Also looks like they used the old bolts and they should have used new ones Thanks for that confirmation. It gets worse. Here is a photo of the loose bolt after it was removed by the RAC roadside assistance man. Also, a photo of the offside mounting - notice anything odd here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Stewart - 2009-08-03 2:11 PM Itexuk - 2009-08-02 8:24 PM Sorry, there should be 4 bolts, there is on mine and I have had the mod. Also looks like they used the old bolts and they should have used new ones Thanks for that confirmation. It gets worse. Here is a photo of the loose bolt after it was removed by the RAC roadside assistance man. Also, a photo of the offside mounting - notice anything odd here? Sorry, missed the photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Looks like the've knackered the threads in tapped hole, now I'm wondering if this was removing the bolts or replacing them? if it was removing them how many other vans have similairy knackered threaded but don't yet know it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 I've just been out and checked under the bonnet, having had the A fix done. All seems well - everything bright, shiny and new and seemingly tight. Surely, Fiat would have supplied new bolts as a matter of course, along with the mounts. Why would a dealer use the old ones? Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Having thought a bit more about this I would suggest that anyone having this work done request to observe the bolts being removed and inspect them, if they look like in the photo then reject work and ask for the part that this screws into be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Shaun - 2009-08-03 6:57 PM I've just been out and checked under the bonnet, having had the A fix done. All seems well - everything bright, shiny and new and seemingly tight. Surely, Fiat would have supplied new bolts as a matter of course, along with the mounts. Why would a dealer use the old ones? Shaun Shaun, Can you tell me if you have three bolts holding the offside mount or only two as I have? - see my second engine mount photo in earlier post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Bloody hell! what a carry on. Had mine done a couple of weeks ago. Will have to check the torque tomorrow. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy T Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Crumbs! Looks like there could be water getting under the bonnet! Looks as if the bolt pulled the thread on the way out. Any comments FIAT? Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Are these engine mounting bolts of the 'built in washer' type designed to be 'single use' bolts, maybe because the 'washer' part compresses to create a locking effect which is lost once they are undone - or are they designed to be multiple use - in which case does Fiat decree that no locking device is required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benson Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 Credit where credit is due!!! I contacted my Fiat dealer on Monday morning at 9.10am. He told me again that any remedial work must be authorised by Fiat and gave me the freephone number for customer services(I had also had a reply from my e-mail to Fiat giving me the same number)I phoned at 2.30pm. and an operative took all my details,stating that someone would be in touch shortly. I could not believe what happended next. I had another phone call from customer services at 4.15pm. asking for in depth details of the problems I had experienced(which had been very severe last week). He told me that the "heavy" modification was obviously required and actually phoned my dealer to arrange the work to be done. This is booked in for 2nd September as the works takes 3/4 days. Hopefully, the modified clutch/reverse gear/mounting,etc., will be carried out then and I will post what improvement the work has after I have had time to try it out. I hope this experience encourages everyone with "the problem" to keep trying, but in my case I was understandably very impressed with Fiats reaction possibly because I was very loath to take the vehicle any distance for fear of complete clutch/gearbox failure. Best of luck, Benson :-) :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.