Mike88 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Duplicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulurita Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 I want to ditch Fiat next time but it looks as though there will be less and less choice :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zulurita Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 sorry duplicate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted August 28, 2009 Share Posted August 28, 2009 Mike88 - 2009-08-28 3:00 PM All I can say is that it is totally and utterly disigenuous of those converters building motorhomes on faulty vehicles. Companies such as Swift monitor these forums but still totally diregard everything that is said by persistently using Fiat and its derivatives. Clearly they feel that the great British public will continue to buy these faulty products when common sense dictates the precise opposite. And it would seem they are right Why don't converters and customers wake up and boycot Sevel ?QUOTE] Because they the public don't believe that they will get a bad one. It is always the other guy/gal who gets the lemon. Or they have a bad one and will not admit it - worried about PX values. As for the converters they blatently don't care. Some like Autosleepers at least give a choice, Peugeot/VW Ford and Merc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 tonyg3nwl - 2009-08-26 1:22 PM tonyg3nwl - 2009-08-23 2:55 PM I have just today fired off another email to Peugeot customer services reminding them that it is time to get their finger out and escalate my problem to senior levels and sort out the reversing judder problem. They have had one attempt by changing innards of gearbox and clutch, with limited success, and have had further inspection by their local technician ( who, with respect ,appeared to be only just out of nappies), so I am now requesting that they have a senior expert examine and diagnose the real problems. I await their response. My vehicle is one year old on 1st october Autocruise Stargazer on Boxer base 2.2 engine tonyg3nwl They have replied requesting me to determine the unladen weight using a weighbridge, and to inform them of the serial numbers associated with the gearbox. This involves a visit to dealership scheduled for thursday morning. Watch this space. Figures requested have been sent and acknowledged by Customer services who have forwarded them to their 'technical platform' keep watching! tonyg3nwl tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 My wife and I will also be looking at a new van next year. Layout is the main thing and if it is on a Fiat base then fine that is what we will buy. I have no reason to think any problems will not have been cured by then and what is the alternative. The Fiat has always been better than the Ford and if Renault have a new base out then doubt that will also have its problems. As my current Fiat has now done 14,500 miles and been 100% reliable why should I change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Rupert123 You are obviously one of life's "loyal customer" which is exactly what any maker of goods would want from its customer base. But you and many others do not seem to grasp that this allows any maker or supplier to continue to produce faulty products whether it be a M/H or a cheese sandwich, because they know they can rely on your acceptance of faults. A very clever method of the FIAT group is to tart up the interior because they darned well know that females have an 85% cast in choosing a M/H, and its relatively simple to make things look 'female attractive'. That is why shops like TESCO are on to a winner in the sales stakes. For some 45 years I have bought VW vans, more than a dozen of them, when its time for renewal, I research every maker in the book of similar vans to assess their value, driving, general faults, and workability. I would never ever touch a FIAT at any price be it a M/H a car or a bicycle. I wish you God Speed in it, as our recently returned Tony would say. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 libby - 2009-08-29 4:34 PM Rupert123 You are obviously one of life's "loyal customer" which is exactly what any maker of goods would want from its customer base. But you and many others do not seem to grasp that this allows any maker or supplier to continue to produce faulty products whether it be a M/H or a cheese sandwich, because they know they can rely on your acceptance of faults. A very clever method of the FIAT group is to tart up the interior because they darned well know that females have an 85% cast in choosing a M/H, and its relatively simple to make things look 'female attractive'. That is why shops like TESCO are on to a winner in the sales stakes. For some 45 years I have bought VW vans, more than a dozen of them, when its time for renewal, I research every maker in the book of similar vans to assess their value, driving, general faults, and workability. I would never ever touch a FIAT at any price be it a M/H a car or a bicycle. I wish you God Speed in it, as our recently returned Tony would say. Bill Like a number of your posts Bill I am little mystified by it. How does Fiat go about 'tarting up the interior'of the important part of a motorhome, the living part. How do they do this, I was not aware they built any. Exactly what faults have I accepted, mine has performed perfectly. I have better things to do than spend my life looking at every aspect of every van on the market. I am curious to know when you last purchased a new M/H it must take you years just to research it, by then it will be out of date anyway. Am I a loyal customer, well sometimes, when a product gives me good service I will always look at it again. I did not say I would buy another Fiat, read my post again, properly this time, just if the van which suited had a Fiat base I would buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 A slip of the mind dear Henry, no doubt any body builder will enhance an interior in conjunction with FIAT in order to add to their sales. Out new M/H was bought in 2006 and "totally myself" took 10 years to decide and will never change it. Having hired some previously and being engineering based I do my searches from the ground upwards, even crawling underneath to view. One of the reasons I persist in posting on here is that there are still buyers who make quick decisions to purchase and who do not research hard enough before wishing they had done otherwise. Being in the past closely connected with the automotive trade (and thousands of other products) I mistrust everything new. Plus I'm never a loyal customer except for coffee, cos it tastes nice. My posts are intended to be lighthearted and it seems mystifying, great, lets not be too grumpy, life is too short. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Rupert. You seem to think that your vehicle is the bees knees because you have had no problems in 14000 miles. Would you really expect a vehicle designed for the commercial market to have problems at such a low mileage? But if you think your experience is sufficient justification for buying another Fiat in light of all the problems mentioned here and elsewhere then the very best of luck to you. No wonder Fiat and converters are waving two fingers at their customers (according to reports). Just because Ford and Renault are producing new vehicles in the next couple of years does not mean that there will be problems a la Fiat. Because there are problems with Fiat does not mean that other vehicles will be similarly afflicted. The main problem is likely to be finding a vehicle that is not on the Fiat base. That is a problem I'm finding now - and the situation is likely to get worse according to reports in MMM. If people keep buying Fiat in light of all the problems then I am sorry to say that they deserve all they get. Such customer loyalty is likely to encourage converters to continue to build their admitedly very nice vans on this faulty base vehicle nice though it looks. As matters stand, it seems to me that the motorhome industry seems to be totally ignoring their customers wishes and, despite all the problems, it is becoming increasingly difficult to buy anything that is not on a Sevel base. And what about the dealers; they are nearly as bad by agreeing to sell vehicles that they know are problematical. Have they not got some trade organisation that can bring pressure to bear on the industry to either get Fiat to pull their finger out or to persuade converters to use other base vehicles? On this and other forums we keep reading about clutch burnout and gearbox judder on low mileage vehicles. All I can say is that if I owned one I would get shot now or certainly before the warranty expires as there are likely to be some very expensive repair bills that lie ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Henry (Rupert 123) is being a liitle economical with the truth - he has a 100 series 5 speed based Fiat, which as the rest of us know is lower geared in reverse than the 6 speed vans, so that one does have to be put in really quite extreme circumstances for any problems to show up. Indeed whilst we were in that early 'campaigning' stage of things, and trying to put pressure on Fiat to recognise these vans had a problem, I only heard from 2 owners of 5 speed vans (2 too many mind you) who had suffered premature clutch failure, and none with gearbox damage. If Henry is satisfied with his 5 speed version then fine, but as he knows, it's the 6 speed vans which are causing all the trouble so perhaps he should express his satisfaction with the product a little more specifically, and not praise Fiat generally for producing a vehicle with a very specific and potentially damaging defect - and one he has no real experience of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Andy, at least you must admit my last couple of posts have bought this thread back on track. It was starting to drift off into the realms of fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Henry, Yes, you are like waving a red Flag in a field full of angry bulls !! He He ! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbocj Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 For the record, I had the engine mount mod. carried out at the end of July. On collection there were no tests, just a pleasent cheerio. There has been no contact from Fiat regarding the results, good or bad. I have done about 500mls. since and feel no real difference, apart from start-up bump missing(never a problem). My great concern is the possible gradual damage that could be caused to the clutch/gearbox eventually causing total failure, prematurely!! For many it will be out of warranty and see what help you get from Fiat then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 When I contacted Fiate direct in Dublin the MD of Fait Ireland infomed me that he knew of no issues with Fait Ducato vehicles. Depite emailing him a number of times since he has failed to resond in any way to my concerns. The good thing about Fiat is they think if they treat you like a mushroom and feed you the necessary compost ! then you will go away eventually. Well, guess what I aint going away and the sooner I get these guys in front of a Judge the better. Even if I loose I shall make sure that enough coverage is made of my situation as possible. Oh yes Dethleff wrote to Fiat in November 2008 and in May 2009 and in June 2009 and in August 2009 it appears no resonse has been received... Wonder Why ! any translaters out there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondel Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Hi everyone, We are in the process of deciding on a new panel van conversion so has anyone any advice. We are downsizing from a Merdedes coachbuilt, which we love, because we need an automatic to fit hand controls for my husband. I haven't seen any bad press about the automatic Fiat but is that because there are so few automatic conversions around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 blondel - 2009-09-01 11:02 AM Hi everyone, We are in the process of deciding on a new panel van conversion so has anyone any advice. We are downsizing from a Merdedes coachbuilt, which we love, because we need an automatic to fit hand controls for my husband. I haven't seen any bad press about the automatic Fiat but is that because there are so few automatic conversions around? The 3.0ltr Comfortmatic Fiat Ducato doesn't seem to be affected by the reverse judder issue and this automatic seems to be widely accepted as a very good version. Di and Pete Johnson (motorhome reviewers for MMM) have just taken delivery of a new Murvi Morello on this panel van model. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Blondel Why not enquire about fitting an automatic adaption with hand controls to your Merc. I doubt its anything new? Ask Dave Newell he should have some ideas plus there are converters for such a situation. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Is the Comfortmatic genuinely trouble free? Is it simply an automated version of the standard judderbox or is it something completely different? If the former then I would expect the automated box just to mask the underlying problem of the gearage and would expect problems to occur in the future. I have criticised Fiat extensively but if the Comfortmatic box was OK then, given the lack of alternatives for an automatic panel van then even I would have to consider a Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Their are, as far as I know, no reported problems with the 3.00ltr auto and it is a far better engine than the Mercedes. PM Andy he will probably know if any problems have been reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted September 1, 2009 Author Share Posted September 1, 2009 I have no personal experience whatsoever of the 3 litre auto models, but there have been no reported problems as far as I know. But it's early days still and from a very small number of sales, so I will ask Pete an Di to perform a couple of small tasks to determine whether the gear ratio is still the same as the manual (reverse at 1000 rpm and see how fast it's going) which it should be, and if the clutch slips on a VERY steep hill at slow speeds in reverse - i.e 800 rpm. None of the owners (or tests) have inlcluded such a test yet as far as I know. Also......... Eurohire (Nick) has considerable experience of the 3 litre auto model I think so perhaps he can offer his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Well it is nearly NEC time again, so can we expect Fiat to make a lot more soothing noises so that all of those affected will keep quiet at the show ? It has happened before when the T-shirt protest seemed as though it was going ahead, so will there lots of promises and not too much action by any guilty parties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hello all, Andy is absolutely right, we have one of the 3.0 Comfort-matics on fleet and I have driven it extensively on level roads, hills and even wet grassy inclines in reverse! Absolutely no problems at all. However I need to balance this with a word of caution (for the eternally sceptical out there) Because there is no difference between the gear ratios of the manual and auto 3.0 engines there may be some concern about the velocity you acheive while reversing but it does seem more controllable than slipping the clutch in a manual. Also, because there is no difference between the engine mounts either, I do wonder whether they will have issues later on. The various 3.0 manuals that we have (all 3.5T Maxi XL vans) have exhibited the judder even when reversing on level ground but it has not manifested itself as anything more worrying. The Auto does none of these things, and with similar loads on board has equalled or beaten by 1 mpg the fuel consumption of the manuals. On the other hand, I might just be lucky. There are far too many people with genuine problems out there that have been totally let down by Fiat/Peugeot, their dealers and the coachbuilders. Deplorable. Balanced view; I hope. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 euroserv Yes, a balanced report. There is one point to add and that is, given that the gear ratios are the same, then the only way that a Comfort-matic can achieve a smooth reverse will be by (automatically) slipping the clutch. For a car I drive a Yaris with the MMT gearbox (about the same as the Comfort-matic) and this is beautifully smooth on take up, either going forwards or in reverse. The way that it manages this is by very precisely controlled clutch slip by the control circuitry. The Comfort-matic must work the same way and this does make me wonder as to long-term clutch life, especially with a heavy van on a steep hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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