Porky Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I would agree with Nick (euroserve) about the 3l auto. We have had ours from new on an Autotrail Tracker EKS (because it ticked all our boxes) so not a large van, but it has been an absolute delight to drive, in both directions. Several times on narrow Devon lanes I have had to reverse some distance uphill. It was easily and smoothly done. As for the future potential clutch damage I`ll let you know if and when it happens. In the meantime we are enjoying the experience. Roy Fuller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I would agree with Nick (euroserve) about the 3l auto. We have had ours from new on an Autotrail Tracker EKS (because it ticked all our boxes) so not a large van, but it has been an absolute delight to drive, in both directions. Several times on narrow Devon lanes I have had to reverse some distance uphill. It was easily and smoothly done. As for the future potential clutch damage I`ll let you know if and when it happens. In the meantime we are enjoying the experience. Roy Fuller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 We also have a Tracker EKS wih 3ltr Comfortmatic, and it really is a delight to drive. If the clutch is being slipped, then it is being done in a way which, so far, has produced no hot smells, or smoke, when reversing onto pitches, slightly uphill on wet grass, and onto levelling ramps (forwards and reversed). No complaints, but time will tell. Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I wonder when we can be sufficiently confident that there will be no problems? If the gear ratios are the same, in theory there should be a problem, but clearly there is not so far. Although it is early days things are beginning to look promising. These replies have been very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooperman Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 I have read most of the above postings with a mixture of interest, horror and some incredulity. May I pass on my own experiences. In February 2009 I e-mailed Fiat about my vibration problem on an Ace Airstream 680FB first registered Oct 2007. Within two days I had recieved written confirmation and a case reference number. At the beginning of April, having heard nothing, and wishing to go away I e-mailed again and advised them that I had plans, and how were they doing! On 20th April I had a phone call from Fiat, very polite asking what the plans were, and explained that they were running behind schedule, and they would be in touch in July. On return from holiday at beginning of July, advised Fiat by e-mail that I was back in the country. Following day recieved confirmation letter, and two days later recieved a call asking various questions about the problems. Said OK and offered garages in area to choose from. My choice would contact me when parts for first intervention were in. Within 2 weeks work done, garage said that testing was for me to carry out as the regular user. Within further two weeks call from Fiat how were things, were we satisfied. Told them the initial problem with knock on starting and switching of engine gone, still had problem with judder. No argument, said fine will book you in for intervention B, clutch replacement etc. The van now appears to be fine, I will be advising Fiat that I am happy for the present, leaving it open in case anything further goes wrong. So far I believe that I have been curteous and polite to both Fiat and the garage, and have recieved nothing less from them. I would particularily like to thank my garage, Vospers of Plymouth, for a job well done, the way we were dealt with, and would recommend them to anyone. Today we have recieved a letter from Vospers confirming the work that they have carried out with appropiate references to job numbers and parts supplied and fitted, for me to keep on file. I can only speak as I find, and now look forward to our next trip away, if only it would stop raining!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0930 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 As I have stated in another post this has also been my experience. I only ever made one phone call to Fiat. Staff were polite and helpful and the full modification was done by a dealer of my choice at a time and date suitable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 All these good folk who are now finding Fiat courteous and helpful should have both tried comlaining about this defect in May 2007 (when some of us started) and, in the here and now, tried telling Fiat that their modifcations have neither fully sorted the issues, and that the van has developed other small but annoying faults as a result. Their response to this has been one of totally ignoring the letters sent to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 With regard to Fiat I will say this that Fiat customre care have contacted me on several occasions to ask me how happy I am. Even the week after my vehicle being driven the 90 miiles to Belfast and sitting their for sevaral days and Fiat Turin refusing the dealer permission to inspect my vehicle they called me to see how happy I was. I have informed customer care on all occasions in a polite manner of how unhappy I am to have bought a vehicle with an obvious manufacturing fault, but the customer care person is in a paid call centre and the call is logged as part of statistics and it appears no individual feedback is accessed by Fiat. If they did I would certainly have had a call by now following my last custmer care call which was a 15 minute interview which on the scales given, Fiat failed on all grounds apart from the polite calls from the call centre (not Fiat) so if one gets a call from customer care do ask which call centre they are calling from and if the operator is a paid Fiat employee . I am still sitting with a Fiat 3 litre which burns in reverse and shudders and according to the letter I have from Fiat this shudder is acceptable to them, copies of same available on request. Am I unlucky, I think not and I certainly am not out of step. I have a vehicle my vehicle which has a fault which was known to exist prior to sale and it appears Fiat have decided that they will risk going to court, well see you there lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 rupert123 - 2009-08-29 3:43 PM My wife and I will also be looking at a new van next year. Layout is the main thing and if it is on a Fiat base then fine that is what we will buy. I have no reason to think any problems will not have been cured by then and what is the alternative. The Fiat has always been better than the Ford and if Renault have a new base out then doubt that will also have its problems. As my current Fiat has now done 14,500 miles and been 100% reliable why should I change. Being in a similar situation, but with over 40k miles on the clock, I too would be reluctant to switch horses - or the devil you know. At the risk of repeating stuff that may already have been covered in this thread here are my thoughts on this tricky subject. 1. When contemplating buying a new M/H , existing 2.8JTD owners probably have a choice between the 2.3 or 3.0 engines - although the latter will add a fair slug to the price. 2. The 2.3 unit has by far the worst incidents of clutch judder but the 3.0 also has had some. 3. Fiat have at last accepted that the 2.3 has a problem and have a fix that, given the high cost of warrantee claims, will surely be built into new units. Fiat have not accepted any problems with the 3.0 engine so it is less likely that they have made design/manufacturing changes to that unit yet. 4. So, all things been equal relative to the size of your new M/H, you are, on the face of it, probably better off going for a 2.3. But there's no way of knowing if your new M/H will have the modified gearbox/clutch - these things can be held in stock for many months despite Just in Time manufacturing. 5. One way of improving your chances of getting a goodun, assuming you are an existing Fiat owner, might be to enlist the help of your Fiat Dealer - this is where loyality could pay off. Why not get them to road test the new M/H on your behalf prior to its registration and handover from the M/H dealer? This would be a particularly good way of going about things if, by chance, the Fait Dealer was already carrying out PDI work for the M/H Dealer. You might argue that the Fiat Dealer wouldn't want to get involved but, if it has been significant over the years, they wouldn't want to lose your business either. As far as I'm concerned loyalty is a two way street. In any event this approach would need to be agreed prior to the purchase so why not check it out if the possibilities exist in your area of the country? V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 If you need any support, drop me a email Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starfield Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Apologies for asking something which has probaly already been addresssed in this thread, but I simply do not have the patience to read the 36 + pages to find the info. My head is reeling after the first 4 pages I am a novice in MH matters and about to buy a new (to me motorhome) I want to avoid the models which could have the gearbox problem. Can someone tell me when the problem started for each manufacturer (Fiat, Peugeot/Citroen) and any way to check that I am looking at something which predates the issues? Slightly off topic, is there anywhere a summary of what real fuel consumption is delivered by motorhomes. this will be a key factor in our choice. Many thanks Peter Many Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Moyne, I was given the run around by a Gas supplier for money they said I owedand for which I had a receipt from the Company. Eventually my supposed debt it was passed to a debt collection agency. When the agency contacted me I rang the Gas supplier and asked who had made the decision to ignore my previous correspondence and photocopies of the receipt. I was put through to a Manager, who I told in no uncertain terms that my Solicitor would be naming him as the person responsible who had caused me so much grief. FUNNY OLD THING but he made the necessary calls, resolved the situation all because his neck was on the line. These thoughts may help you. Regards and happy hunting - Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertGS Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Just testing to see if this thread really has seized up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 checking thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 testing to get it bump over to 39. deleted (............................................) ...Just needs a little push to get it started again after stalling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 The very last thing anyone should do at the present time is buy a 2.3 litre version. The vehicles being converted right now differs in only mechanically 'cosmetic' ways from the ones which require the gearbox modifcations. The addition of a tie bar on the bottom of the engine, modified engine mountings, and a clutch slave cylinder 'damper' are the only changes on the present vehicles. These changes just reduce the juddering - and the juddering is not the important or damaging defect. The too-high reverse gear ratio is the defect and that has not been changed. How many times do all of us have to shout out the words THE REVERSE GEAR RATIO IS TOO HIGH before folk get the message? Rumours from Italy suggest that when the Euro 5 engines are announced (was meant to be November, but now delayed) then the gearbox will be sorted out. And do you really want to buy a product from a company which treats its customers the way Fiat have in the last two years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 rupert123 - 2009-08-29 3:43 PM My wife and I will also be looking at a new van next year. Layout is the main thing and if it is on a Fiat base then fine that is what we will buy. I have no reason to think any problems will not have been cured by then and what is the alternative. The Fiat has always been better than the Ford and if Renault have a new base out then doubt that will also have its problems. As my current Fiat has now done 14,500 miles and been 100% reliable why should I change. I am curious as to the comment above, that 'the Fiat has always been better than the Ford' Better in what way? My last Ford Transit (as an Autosleeper Duetto) did over 80,000 miles without any problems and as I live on a steep hill (varies between 1 in 5 and 1 in 8) I can confirm that it never juddered in reverse. Show me a thread like this one on this website complaining about Ford problems, go on, I dare you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 If Fiat have accepted that there is a problem with the 2.3 Litre then some had better tell Fiat as my motorhome agent in Letterkenny, Co. Donegal cannot get Fiat to accept there is a problem with any Fiat vehicle. The MD of Fiat Ireland himself assured me that there are no known problems with Fiat vehicles and any Fiat vehicles which have been repaired and I mean repaired because they have to fail first have been fixed under duress. So if there is a probalem as I am hearing that Fait recognise there is a problem has anyone got a document which says that these vehicles are being recalled. I think not ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moyne Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 If Fiat have accepted that there is a problem with the 2.3 Litre then some had better tell Fiat as my motorhome agent in Letterkenny, Co. Donegal cannot get Fiat to accept there is a problem with any Fiat vehicle. The MD of Fiat Ireland himself assured me that there are no known problems with Fiat vehicles and any Fiat vehicles which have been repaired and I mean repaired because they have to fail first have been fixed under duress. So if there is a problem as I am hearing that Fiat recognise there is a problem has anyone got a document which says that these vehicles are being recalled. I think not ! I would love to get my hands on one ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Moyne, some items and information are best kept private and away from the forum. If you want further info then a PM to someone who is an acknowleged expert on this forum may be a better approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted September 8, 2009 Author Share Posted September 8, 2009 During the last fortnight I have driven both a brand new Fiat and fresh from the factory Peugeot: the Fiat a 2.3 litre 6 speed and the Peugeot a 2.2 litre 6 speed, and I am now more baffled than ever as to what exactly is going on at Fiat. The Fiat was as high geared as ever in reverse, whilst the Peugeot wasn't. I think it's time both Peugeot and Fiat told everyone exactly what is going on and set things straight for potential buyers. What chance of that I wonder? I'm going to see if I can get someone to ask the right questions at Peugeot and see what they have to say. Obviously Fiat won't tell anyone anything, but they will be also get the opportunity to clarify things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Andy. Did they both judder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Perhaps Fiat have a stock of the old gearboxes that they have to offload on the unaware whilst Peugeot are refusing to take any more. Good to see for prospective purchasers there is light at the end of the tunnel with Peugeot. How long before we have the 2.2 litre 6 speed Fiat announced??!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Large companies will NEVER comment about a genuine error on their part. Some while ago I saved TESCO potentialy £millions on their share price. They have never replied to any correspondence, and the local store manager is always 'engaged'. The offending item was changed with never a thankyou. Any reply is an admission of guilt !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brom Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 AndyStothert - 2009-09-08 9:38 AM Do you think Peugeot are using the Ford six-speed gearbox on their 2.2 litre engine? During the last fortnight I have driven both a brand new Fiat and fresh from the factory Peugeot: the Fiat a 2.3 litre 6 speed and the Peugeot a 2.2 litre 6 speed, and I am now more baffled than ever as to what exactly is going on at Fiat. The Fiat was as high geared as ever in reverse, whilst the Peugeot wasn't. I think it's time both Peugeot and Fiat told everyone exactly what is going on and set things straight for potential buyers. What chance of that I wonder? I'm going to see if I can get someone to ask the right questions at Peugeot and see what they have to say. Obviously Fiat won't tell anyone anything, but they will be also get the opportunity to clarify things. Do you think Peugeot are using the Ford 6-speed gearbox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.