zulurita Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Be careful if anyone has their motorhome booked in for the reverse judder fix. Apparently the clutch actuator pipe is for a LHD vehicle. Make sure your dealer orders a RHD part and having spoken to Fiat yesterday it will take about 10 days for the part to come from Italy to the UK. I had my motorhome booked in for the work April 6th!! Looks like it will now be delayed as Sue O Riordon from Fiat didn't think the part would arrive in time. Contacted my dealer re this issue but have heard no more since. Sue did say she would contact my dealer re the RHD part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 With regard to Em's post about the 2.3 6 speed being unvailable in Europe it is true that a rumour has been circulating in Fiat UK that it is to be withdrawn, and the only engine available the Ford 2.2 litre. Our Italian contact also thinks the 2.3 lite engine is to be withdrawn. They are fairly soundly based rumours too, but it would be a shame in a way because (just my opinion) the 2.3 litre Iveco engine is a nicer thing to use than the Ford one. Fiat obviously won't comment about anything so nobody has bothered to ask them officially. With regard to the rectification work does anyone know whether it has stopped completely as a result of the kit including a LHD part, or is it just a batch of them? My understanding from Fiat is that it has stopped completely but some owners still seem to be under the impression that their vans are being done this week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I have just had the full monty fix on my X250 here in Spain below is a list from the garage of what was done and parts used. This list has been translated from Spanish so may not be 100% accurate. Description of work Replace Primary tree gear Replace bearings secondary gear Replace clutch set Replace engine mounts Replace clutch hydraulic tube Parts used Part Number Pinion 1/0071753295 Primary tree 1/0071753296 Sleeve 1/0071753297 Clutch set 1/0071753301 Flexible sleeve 1/0016209448 Connecting rod 1/0071753298 Support 1/0071753299 Support 1/0071753300 Bearing 1/9402372858 Cork ( seal)? 1/9646435280 Hydraulic Fluid DT4 1/102 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 OK - lets see iof we can get past the server with a couple of photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 OK - lets see if we can get past the server with a couple of photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Try again with just one - only 973 kb so it should work? If it doesn't, does anyone know why the 'server error' message is coming up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Posted re-sized photos on MHF - try again here www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-43588-1830.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 pics should be a max size 100kbytes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Again - smaller still ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger20 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Yet again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Colin, Pardon me being thick but does this mean you have a lower reverse gear, if so well done, does it work? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevef Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Hi The infamous new reverse gear in all its glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niton Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Hi, My letter from Justin Westnedge of Fiat dated 16th Feb 2009 states " As previously advised, we are awaiting further information from our colleagues in Italy regarding 3.0ltr engine. We have started the modifications for the 2.3ltr engine however we still awaiting further instructions and information regarding the engine on your vehicle." Does anyone else own a 6speed 3.0ltr and does it judder in reverse gear? I was in WH Smiths today and noticed that the May issue of Practical Motorhome has a two page spread on the Ducato reverse gear judder in the form of an interview with Fiat on their stand at the Feb NEC show. It may help in making more people aware of the problem. I am not confident that Fiat will replace the reverse gear in 3.0ltr models as they imply they do not judder. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Peter (Niton) I have a 3litre 6 speed in a Murvi Morello and it judders in reverse backing down my flat drive at home. So its high speed or continually slipping the clutch. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niton Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Hi Paul, Have you been in touch with Fiat and are they going to fix it? Are van conversions worse at juddering that Low Profiles? Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 It's a wonderfull piece of artwork, but a pity it's caused so much pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Peter, Yes I am supposed to be in the next batch(or maybe the one after that can't remember what Justin said on the phone). As its very difficult for me to get the van to the dealer I really want the whole lot done in one visit and not bits and pieces. Can't answer your question as to which judders worst but as I have never been tempted by anything other than panel van conversions am not qualified to answer anyway. In a forward direction with Airide and cruise control its an absolute delight. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamer Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 My 3.0 ltr heavy chassis 4.0 tonne Arto judders when carrying out slow reversing manoeuvres (such as reverse parking) on a hill. I have informed Fiat and got a reference number. Way back, when this problem first appeared, I did a simple straight reverse up my step drive and everything appeared ok (very lightly loaded), only when carrying out a slow manoeuvre did I encounter the serious judder (loaded at approx 3850Kg), as soon as the clutch had to be slipped the problem started. I have also noticed that there is far more vibration transmitted into the bodywork when reversing when compared to moving forward in 1st gear on the flat without the use of the accelerator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhorsf Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 colinfrier - 2009-03-26 9:47 AM I have just had the full monty fix on my X250 here in Spain below is a list from the garage of what was done and parts used. This list has been translated from Spanish so may not be 100% accurate. Description of work Replace Primary tree gear Replace bearings secondary gear Replace clutch set Replace engine mounts Replace clutch hydraulic tube Parts used Part Number Pinion 1/0071753295 Primary tree 1/0071753296 Sleeve 1/0071753297 Clutch set 1/0071753301 Flexible sleeve 1/0016209448 Connecting rod 1/0071753298 Support 1/0071753299 Support 1/0071753300 Bearing 1/9402372858 Cork ( seal)? 1/9646435280 Hydraulic Fluid DT4 1/102 Colin you do not say if this is the cure or not does it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Exactly which vehicles are affected with the judder fault? I am currently thinking of purchsing a '07 Ducato 2.3 based Burstner and took it for a test run and it seemed fine, I didn't reverse up a hill as there was none nearby. But 1st gear seemed fine. Is this one of the affected ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireman1201 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 this is my 1st post , i own a autotrail apache 700 2.3 6 speed 08 i have got a case number from fiat but cannot find out if and when it will have any mods done ? as fiat seem to have gone into hiding after the n.e.c show . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinfrier Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I collected my vehicle just before a trip back to UK so have had no chance to give it a full test. Forwards is just the same as before I did a quick reverse on the 1 in 4 where I live and it still judders until the clutch is fully out and you are moving but its better than before I was able to reverse at 900rpm with no judder however you would need to slip the clutch to control speed.Prior to modification it was 1200 before it stopped juddering. I guess it's the best we are going to get. We are now waiting information from Andy who will tell us more. Re post about Burstner 2.3 that is what mine is Solano t700 van is great but dont get it on a FIAT they do similar models on Renult, Delfin range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Chapman Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 colinfrier - 2009-03-27 8:14 AM Re post about Burstner 2.3 that is what mine is Solano t700 van is great but dont get it on a FIAT they do similar models on Renult, Delfin range. Hello Colin, Only for secondhand or maybe the odd unsold new vehicle the Delfin range on Renault has been replaced with the Solano on Fiat and Renault has been dropped from the Burstner range. Burstner only supply Fiat Ducato and Ford Transit base vehicles to the UK market even the Mercedes is non-UK supply. Regards, Mike :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 Following on from the rumours of the demise of the 2.3 litre Fiat Ducato engine from the range I did a little digging yesterday and then had an unofficial conversation with someone at Fiat. The following became clear: The 2.3 litre engine ceased production about 12 weeks ago and is to be replaced by a Fiat badged 2.2 litre 120/130 Ford engine coupled to a modified 6 speed box with a reverse gear ratio the same as first gear. It is thought that this gearbox has been developed to be used with the 2.2 litre engines only and will not suit the existing 2.3 litre engine. This is why Fiat are now modifying existing gearboxes instead of swapping the whole gearbox but in the process the reverse gear ratio being installed in the 2.3 gearboxes is still 7% higher than first gear,. so some doubts do remain about its capabilities. However until a good number are done and tested properly on different size vehicles we won't be able to judge. Fiat and the motorhome manufacturers didn't want anyone to have this information because they will still be trying to sell the thousands of remaining vehicles fitted with the 2.3 litre engine and defective gearbox. In a way, for those buying new the position is now much clearer - Anything with a 2.3 litre engine is potentially a load of hassle and expense, whereas a Fiat badged vehicle with 6 speed box and 2.2 litre engine will have the modified gearbox. As for those who own the 5 speed and 3 litre versions Fiat are still not telling anyone anything, and Peugeot also seem to be dithering. Is there no end to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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