Motorway driving

[fred22]

So you are on the motorway in the inside lane.

The middle lane is full of traffic driving at about 60 mph

The outside lane, also full of traffic, is going a little faster than the inside lane, say 70 mph.

There are no hold ups, the traffic is running freely.

There is nothing in front of you for 200 yds or more..

How fast can you legally go in your lane.?

 

Not a trick question, just interested in the forums opinion

 

One opinion expressed is that you cannot legally exceed the speed of the inside lane otherwise you will be guilty of overtaking on the inside. But, what if the inside lane was only doing 40 mph? Can the middle lane dictate your speed?

 

Don't forget this is not a traffic jam situation.

 

I suppose the easy answer is become a centre lane hogger and join them at 60 mph.

 

[Mick H.]

Couple of points. One. nobobody drives less than 70 MPH on any motorway I've been on.Two if I am on the inside lane that is empty I just catch up with what is in front whatever is going on in the middle lane. The norm sems to be on motorways to get there whichever way is quickest.Whatever happened to the law that lorries don't use the outside lane,for instance.Motorway laws need redefining.

 

Mick.

[colin]

Rule 268 from highwaycode

268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

 

[nightrider]

Mick H. - 2009-03-14 9:59 PM

 

Couple of points. One. nobobody drives less than 70 MPH on any motorway I've been on.Two if I am on the inside lane that is empty I just catch up with what is in front whatever is going on in the middle lane. The norm sems to be on motorways to get there whichever way is quickest.Whatever happened to the law that lorries don't use the outside lane,for instance.Motorway laws need redefining.

 

Mick.

 

Mick,

How do you mean nobody drives less than 70MPH on the motorway?

on an empty inner lane I am quite happy to travel at 55/60 MPH upping and downing my speed depending on what is in front or behind me and overtaking as and when required and keeping what I think is a safe distance from other vehicles, 70 MPH is the legal speed limit but you dont have to travel at 70 MPH. I use the inner lane and use the middle lane to overtake then back into the inner lane if it is clear, I leave the outer lane to all the boy racers and the fast trappers, apart from that if you have a breakdown or puncture in the inner lane it is easier to coast on to the hard shoulder, bad news if you breakdown in the fast lane isn't it?

I keep a wary eye on heavy trucks and give them plenty of room by either letting them overtake or get out of their way. I dont hammer it down the motorway, after all I am on holiday and reaching my destination safely is my prime concern.

[ROON]

Hi Mick, I NEVER drive over 50 mph now that the crdit crunch is hitting me hard. I don't care who I upset. If they want to go faster then they can overtake at a safe place and good luck to them. .....

 

Re original post, in my mind I feel the ones staying in the middle lane at 60mph are at fault when the inside lane is empty. THEY should pull over to the inside lane and anyone wishing to go faster than THEM should overtake them onto the middle lane.

 

And I should know. I'M A WOMAN DRIVER AND WE KNOW IT ALL. :-D

[breakaleg]

My wife scares me on the motorway, she slows to 45mph and this is at night, me i assume the position waiting for the bang from behind.

Pete

[Ina]

Mick H. - 2009-03-14 9:59 PM

 

nobobody drives less than 70 MPH on any motorway I've been on.

Mick.

 

I've never been on the same motorway that you've been on then, as neither I nor OH ever drive at 70 MPH, usually we both drive at around 55-60 at the most.

 

In answer to the OP, I was always under the impression that, if you are in the inside lane, you should not drive faster than traffic in the middle lane, unless in a traffic jam situation, where lanes move at different speeds (but that was not the question posed by the OP).

 

Ina.

[Brian Kirby]

fred22 - 2009-03-14 9:29 PM So you are on the motorway in the inside lane. The middle lane is full of traffic driving at about 60 mph The outside lane, also full of traffic, is going a little faster than the inside lane, say 70 mph. There are no hold ups, the traffic is running freely. There is nothing in front of you for 200 yds or more.. How fast can you legally go in your lane.? Not a trick question, just interested in the forums opinion One opinion expressed is that you cannot legally exceed the speed of the inside lane otherwise you will be guilty of overtaking on the inside. But, what if the inside lane was only doing 40 mph? Can the middle lane dictate your speed? Don't forget this is not a traffic jam situation. I suppose the easy answer is become a centre lane hogger and join them at 60 mph.

So now, let's try to answer the question.  Whatever the relative speeds of the lanes, if you wish to overtake, you should do so to the right.

The exception is where traffic is crawling in lanes, when it is reasonable to maintain the speed of the lane you are in, even when this, from time to time, exceeds the speed of the lane to your right meaning you will be overtaking on the left.  However, under these circumstances, traffic to your right will have priority over you should it wish to move to its left, so all such "overtaking" should be done with caution.

It is reasonable to move out of the left hand lane in heavy rain or fog, to avoid HGVs that present a danger to smaller vehicles under such conditions.  Otherwise, the left hand lane is the "driving" lane, and all other lanes are overtaking lanes, to be occupied only while overtaking.

If in doubt, try Germany.  The Germans will soon tell you when to change back to the right hand lane!  :-)

[bob b]

I too travel mainly in the inside lane on motorways when in the motorhome. When 'catching up' with a lorry, I regularly experience motorists in the middle lane will close up the gap to prevent me moving out to overtake.

I'm sure that's why many people just stay in the middle lane and have done with it.

[Losos]

Brian Kirby - 2009-03-15 5:52 PM

If in doubt, try Germany.  The Germans will soon tell you when to change back to the right hand lane!  :-)

Oh yes, no ifs and buts there, in typical German fashion it's all sorted and people are disciplined enough to follow the rules (most of the time)  

[ROON]

breakaleg - 2009-03-15 3:42 PM

 

and this is at night, me i assume the position waiting for the bang from behind.

Pete

 

Oh, Groan, Fingers crossed Howie doesn't see Pete's reply! :$

[CliveH]

 

One of our relatives was a nightmare driver! - Would sit in the centre lane of a motorway doing 55mph regardless. She was even warned by the Police about it once - but it made no difference.

 

But worse still whilst she said she was scared to do more than 55 mph on a motorway, she would regularly drive at 45 to 50 mph in a 30 mph limit and had the speeding tickets to prove it 8-)

 

It did not matter what you said, as far as she was concerned, that was what she felt comfortable doing and so she did it.

 

I also witnessed her ignoring a Red traffic light once because she was late and there was apparently "no traffic coming" so she went across the junction. I was a passenger in the back and was not happy at all!

 

She no longer drives now as her eyesight is not good and age is over 80.

So we can all breathe a sigh of relief. Fantastic lady tho! - Batty has hell but a real character.

 

[Tony Jones]

North American rule is quite different, as I discovered when driving in Canada a few years back. On a highway there, you just choose a lane and get on with it, passing (and being passed by) traffic on either side as necessary.

I've always maintained that's much safer in principle, as it removes need for frequent lane-switching. The ONLY reason it seems more dangerous is that we don't expect it.

So (for instance) a driver moves back into the middle lane after overtaking something in it, then into the inside lane. He/she wouldn't (under our rule) expect to find something coming up on the left, overtaking the same middle-lane vehicle, as that's not allowed here. Therefore, if it DOES happen, it's dangerous because it's unexpected. Under the American rule, (a) there'd be no need for the driver to change lanes at all after overtaking and (b) if he/she DID change lanes for any reason it would be normal to check ALL lanes for possible overtaking traffic.

 

As a bonus, there'd be no more "clogging up" in the outside lane, leaving the other lanes empty. Anyone in the outside lane who wanted to go faster than the other traffic would simply use one of the empty lanes instead.

Of course, the other way deal with the clogged outside lane would be to operate our system properly (left hand "driving" lane, all others for overtaking only). But that means VERY frequent lane switching - which is surely one of the most dangerous manoeuvres on our (otherwise remarkably safe) motorways?

 

I realise that such a change would need a great deal of intensive re-education, but we've done that with drink/driving, and the same process is under way with speeding, so it CAN be done.

 

Tony

[CliveH]

Could not agree with you more Tony. Having driven there as you have - once you get used to the situation - it is much safer.

 

As you say, lane blocking by slower vehicles becomes irrelevant as the traffic moves smoothly around the slower car.

 

But here, a car correctly in the inside lane would have to move out to the fast lane then all the way back after encountering a CLOC (Centre Lane Owners Club) member like my dear old Aunt.

 

 

 

[Patricia]

An observation from driving in France is that the French on the whole, overtake and immediately return to the slow lane. They are taught that the outside lane is the most dangerous place to be. So on the whole no lane hogging but their accident rate is much higher than ours so is it due to the overtaking procedure or the increased speed allowed?

[Geof Angi]

Fred

 

I think all has been said and I do not want to stir things up as I am one of the people who dislike people overtaking on the inside and once reported a patrol car for using the hard shoulder so as to reach the next intersection when the traffic on the motorway was running freely. My reason was that he had no two's n blues on, was traveling in excess of 60 mph, I know that because I was doing that on the insde lane, and should an in experianced driver had a problem and headed for the hard shoulder not expecting speeding traffic to be using it it could have started a major incident. I travel in excess of 50,000 miles a year and have seen some horrific accidents (sorry, don't think that is the correct spelling) and was in fact involved in one, although not on a motorway when the driver who ran into my truck decapatated himself. I still awake in a sweat some nights now, 20 years later.

 

Mick

 

I think you asked about trucks and out side lanes, a truck is only baned if the motorway has three lanes or more, 7.5 ton trucks were allowed to use the outside lane until recently when new laws limited them the same as the bigger trucks, over 12 ton, to 90 klm's. as this is a retro fit scheme they will only be banned once they have the limiters fitted which I think will be finished this year at some point.

 

Sorry to go on peeps, as I said at the begining I did not want to stir things up, but maybe I have

 

Geof

[Tony Jones]

Just to be quite clear, Geof, I completely agree with you that overtaking on the nearside (especially the hard shoulder) is dangerous, AS LONG AS OUR RULE AND CUSTOM IS AGAINST IT. Emergency vehicles responding to an emergency have to make many compromises, based on the balance of risks involved, but you're quite right that in that situation blues'n'twos should be used to warn other traffic.

 

Queueing traffic is of course a different matter (incidentally, who defines "slow-moving" in that context?), but otherwise my point was that things could be better if we changed the rule, AND people's expectations of what might happen to the left of them.

 

Tony

[Rapido-lass]

I think that the main problem with the 'middle lane' drivers is that they are too bone idle and have no skill at the wheel, or have just found out about cruise control and don't really know how to use it. They also have no common sense or curtoseyand have the attitude - I'm alright feck the rest of you.

 

If all drivers used the lanes correctly, then life on the motorway would be so much easier and there would not be the need to cross all lanes and back to carry on at ones speed due to ignorant lane hoggers or those people who are tempted to undertake rather than change lane 4 times because of someones bone idleness.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Tony Jones - 2009-03-16 9:31 AM ............. As a bonus, there'd be no more "clogging up" in the outside lane, leaving the other lanes empty. Anyone in the outside lane who wanted to go faster than the other traffic would simply use one of the empty lanes instead.

So where's all these empty lanes, then Tony?  :-)

Of course, the other way deal with the clogged outside lane would be to operate our system properly (left hand "driving" lane, all others for overtaking only). But that means VERY frequent lane switching - which is surely one of the most dangerous manoeuvres on our (otherwise remarkably safe) motorways? I realise that such a change would need a great deal of intensive re-education, but we've done that with drink/driving, and the same process is under way with speeding, so it CAN be done. Tony

I'm not sure I follow the logic of this.  I agree (how could I not!) that we have a tendency to bunch in the right hand lane, mainly because someone already there won't pull back to the left after clearing the vehicle they were overtaking.  However, if you were to legalise left hand side overtaking, how would that help?  You pull into the, less full middle lane, and accelerate up to the vehicle the blocker is overtaking.  Fine, but what then?  Force your way into the right hand lane to pass it, or continue behind it at its speed until the overtaking lane is free - which will put you back, more or less, where you stated?

Patricia gets my vote: the solution is to discipline those who don't pull back left after overtaking.  It really doesn't cause that much lane swapping, and lane swapping is not that dangerous: it merely requires a bit of concentration, and proper signals - both of which are supposed to be a part of good driving in any case.

There is a further element, that Patricia may be able to confirm, which is that there used to be a legal right to overtake in France which, by implication, makes lane blocking illegal.  That is to say, if someone driving faster catches you up, you must allow them to pass.  I believe something similar also obtains in Germany. 

So, you now have a right to pass a slower moving vehicle, but must yourself yield to faster traffic as soon as practicable.  If you stay in the way, especially in Germany, and to a lesser extent in France, all hell breaks loose behind you!  It works there, and the traffic generally flows unimpeded under most circumstances.  The downside is the over-anxious, or possibly inexperienced, drivers who get badgered from behind, and try to remove your offside front wing as they hasten to pull back - a very French characteristic!

[Geof Angi]

Tony

 

My turn to clear up a point

 

I agree that emergency vehicles have to make there way to an incident using the quickest and most safe route, and had this been the case would not have said a thing, but on asking at the police control about this vehicle it appeards that it was the drivers (a sergent) last shift before he retired and was on his way to clock off duty. It appears that if I wanted to take this matter further the guy if found "guilty" would have risked losing his pension, so I agreed that as long as he got a good bo**lo*ing I would not pusue the matter

 

Geof

[W3526602]

Hi Brian,

 

Ref your earlier mail which uses the word "crawling". My version of the Highway Code make no reference to speed, it just says a faster moving line of traffic can undertake a slower moving line of traffic. Do not change lanes to undertake. So, does this allow a single vehicle in nearside lanre to undertake a sngle vehicle in the middle lane?

 

Whatever, I agree with you, and don't do it.

 

I remember once passing a Commer campervan.....aparently broken down on the centre reservation, with a terrified looking bloke waiting for a gap in the 80mph traffic, so he could cross to hard shoulder. I stopped at next service station and told a policeman, who said he hadn't heard about it.

 

I also found out why ALL the traffic exits London at 80mph on the outer lane of the M4. Inner two lanes were empty, until we came upon a tatty Lada containing several young men of an "ethnic" appearance, plus all their worldlies, in middle lane, struggling to overtake a decrepit looking lorry horse box. Once you leave the outer lane, you don't get back in again.

 

602

[Brian Kirby]

W3526602 - 2009-03-18 7:56 AM Hi Brian, Ref your earlier mail which uses the word "crawling". My version of the Highway Code make no reference to speed, it just says a faster moving line of traffic can undertake a slower moving line of traffic. Do not change lanes to undertake. So, does this allow a single vehicle in nearside lanre to undertake a sngle vehicle in the middle lane? .................

My opinion, mind, but since you asked - I would say a single vehicle should not do this (though I well understand why you ask, and a friend of mine always refused to move two lanes across a motorway to overtake a middle lane dreamer :-)).  Reason?  A single vehicle can hardly claim to constitute a "line of traffic".  A line seems to me quite clearly to imply a much larger number of vehicles than one.  However, I'm not a policemen, lawyer, or road traffic expert, so I'm just working on what seems to me reasonable (on the side of caution) interpretation.

[michele]

colin - 2009-03-14 10:37 PM

 

Rule 268 from highwaycode

268

Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

 

Colins right folk!!!!!!!!!

 

If the Numpty in the middle and the bigger numpties in the outside lane want to hog it and the inside is empty and you can manage the national speed limit just do it .

Its not your fault they all sit in the middle to right lanes ,it never fails to astound me how many do it .It also never suprises me that some just hog the middle they would s**te themselfes if told to move over ROTF.its not funny really its these a**es that cause accidents.

[michele]

I Pose another if no one minds.?

 

I am travelling on the inside lane doing 60mph.

A Lorry wants to over take.

He moves out a lane

I stay at the same speed waiting for him to pass and drop back in .

He can't .

I decide to speed up and get out of his way in order to do this I excellerate.

Now he is in the middle looking like a birk

should I of gone out to the middle lane then moved out to the fast lane to get round him ?

He toots at me

What have I done wrong I waited for what seemed like an age its not my fault he has no poke .

What would you of all done.