Finally someone tells Gollum the truth......

[BGD]

Truth hurts eh........

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what has he learned of the past 2,000 years?

 

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced,...the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest

our country becomes bankrupt.

People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

 

Cicero - 55 BC

 

 

 

[LordThornber]

What a good speaker he is, poor Gord..

 

 

 

Yeh right

 

Martyn

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[malc d]

Certainly is a good speaker.

 

I don't know him, but from the complete absence of any constructive ideas in his speech, I assume he's from one of the opposition parties.

 

(p.s. Did Cicero say anything about how bankers should behave ?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:-(

[Hopesy]

I am in no way for Gordon the Gofer but in 3.5 mins i think at least one idea on a way forward could have been proposed. All i heard was yet more criticism from a nobody in a worthless forum, it might as well be Westminster. Doesn't anyone in opposition have an idea on how to get out of this mess or are they all the same. Red. Blue or Yellow they all look like smug, self satisfied, narcissistic, arrogant ........oh i forgot we put them in power >:-( (and i don't mean just labour )

[BGD]

Hopesy - 2009-03-25 5:57 PM

 

I am in no way for Gordon the Gofer but in 3.5 mins i think at least one idea on a way forward could have been proposed. All i heard was yet more criticism from a nobody in a worthless forum, it might as well be Westminster. Doesn't anyone in opposition have an idea on how to get out of this mess or are they all the same. Red. Blue or Yellow they all look like smug, self satisfied, narcissistic, arrogant ........oh i forgot we put them in power >:-( (and i don't mean just labour )

 

 

 

I thought the MEP specifically mentioned a number of alternative ways forward:

 

Say the same thing, regardless of your audience.

We need to support and encourage free trade.

Make your actions match your words.

Don't borrow any more money.

Cut Public Sector spending to reduce the ever-increasing burden on the wealth-creating Private Sector and taxpayers.

Put a stop to increasing the number of unproductive Public Sector jobs.

Instead of trying to spend your way out of recession and borrow your way out of debt, cut your spending and stop borrowing.

 

[Brian Kirby]

BGD - 2009-03-25 6:12 PM Say the same thing, regardless of your audience. We need to support and encourage free trade. Make your actions match your words. Don't borrow any more money. Cut Public Sector spending to reduce the ever-increasing burden on the wealth-creating Private Sector and taxpayers. Put a stop to increasing the number of unproductive Public Sector jobs. Instead of trying to spend your way out of recession and borrow your way out of debt, cut your spending and stop borrowing.

Which of course, is classic conservatism (small C deliberate).  However, there is an alternative view, which is that in order to limit the effects of the present recession it is necessary to increase, or at least maintain, public spending. 

The problems, for those of us who are neither prime ministers nor chancellors, is that firstly all we can do is watch, and secondly only of the proposed remedies can be tried out at any one time.  At present, we are watching the mode of increasing public spending instead of cutting back.  On balance, I think this more likely to work than BGD's proposal of widespread cutting back.

I think that if we were to begin cutting back we should merely cause a sharp increase in unemployment, with a concomitant rise in social security costs.  To affect public spending, the cutbacks would have to be of public employees, who would not be likely to find jobs in the private sector.  However, the cut backs would also have to involve various public projects, realisation of which involves private contractors, who would also have to lay off staff.  Thus, large numbers of unemployed and a rising social security cost.  The unemployed have their incomes sharply reduced, so spend less, and so retailers sell less and manufacturers make less, and they too begin laying off employees.  And so on down in a spiral while the social security budget balloons and the government still has to borrow to make up for its growing liabilities and falling tax revenues.

So, to me, cutting back is the greater of the evils: which is not to say I am sanguine about our present path, just that I think it represents the "least worst" path.

However, we pay the politician's salaries, and I do not consider I have had good value from our present crop.  I make no distinction between Labour or Conservative in this respect, where one has failed in government, the other has failed even worse in opposition.  The rot began under Thatcher and continued with Major, when the Labour party took to examining its navel fluff instead of being a proper opposition, and has continued under Blair/Brown with the Conservatives taking over on the navel fluff watch.  There is one potentially useful sounding party that has consistently warned the others of their various follies, but it has few MPs, and a present leader who seems to think the best way to demonstrate his readiness for government it to hide!

Truly, I despair.  What I really want is a way to convey to our collected MPs that they have fallen down badly on the job, and are in need of a sharp dose of supervision to keep them up to the mark.  Problem is, how on earth do we actually do that?

[Hopesy]

Bruce, sorry about the rant earlier. I don't think they are alternatives but merely sound bites. I know the MEP only had three minutes but instead of saying 10 empty crowd pleasers he could have said cut public spending by X amount by y method and thereby creating jobs by investing in Z. Sorry but all i heard was David Camerons puppet.

Cicero gets my vote any chance of cloning him from DNA

 

On a personal note it's nice to have you back on the forum and i hope all went as well as can be expected

[BGD]

Hopesy - cheers for that thought.

 

Yep, all is well (more or less) now. Onwards and upwards.....

[Patricia]

I understand Brian's argument but think he may be very optimistic in the present situation. The Government has tried that argument for some considerable time now and there is no sign that things are improving, on the contrary the situation appears to be getting even more serious, and they are running out of options. I am sure many people, particularly those who normally take little interest in politics or fiscal matters, are very confused by the conflicting information that is being fed to them by the media.

 

Each speech by Brown and his supporters encourage people to spend, spend, spend although more people, the Governor of the Bank of England and the Chancellor amongst them, are against any more borrowing and public spending. If they cannot agree amongst themselves then maybe they would be wise to listen and debate more thoroughly Vince Cable's ideas. He may not be right, and I am not saying he is, but it should help to clarify their thinking. What a pity his party overlooked the contribution he could make as their leader.

 

In fairness this must be the worst fiscal dilema that politicians of all parties have pondered for a long time. Personally I think the 'spend more' campaign is doomed to failure as the media in general and more and more populist programmes on the radio and television are devising all sorts of ideas on how not to spend but to be thrifty!

[CliveH]

The news today is that Gordons further borrowing by issuing Gilts to fund another massive cash injection into the economy has failed. Nobody wants to buy UK Gilts.

 

This is extremely worrying as in the past a UK Gilt (government bond - but in the UK called gilts because in the past the certificate came with a gold gilt edge which indicated that it was "Gilt Edged Stock") were highly sought after.

 

Now our currency has lost a third of its value and as such few want to lend the UK money if it is going to be repaid in a currency that looks like it still has some way to fall.

 

Bruce! - if you still have any Stirling assets I would suggest you convert them to Euros! - if you have not already done so.

 

As for the speech from Hannon, as others have said – three mins is not long to make an impact but this speech certainly does that. Three mins is also not long to set out alternative ideas, but again I see many references to alternatives as listed in subsequent posts. After all Gordon had over 15 to 20 times and more as long to set out his strategy when Chancellor in his budget speeches. And as Prime Minister, he is not restricted to 3 Min when he stands up.

 

An excellent speech by Dan Harman who also takes a swipe at the Euro Politicians by saying Gordon has mastered there expertise by saying one thing to one audience and something entirely different to another.

 

Thank God for Utube! – Because I doubt the PC luvvies within the BBC would ever think such a speech was “right” for us poor sods in the UK.

 

[CliveH]

Sorry! Hannon not Harman - was thinking of something else at the time!

[nightrider]

If Gordon Brown spends all our money and there is nothing left in the pot, he will be forced to borrow.

But who will lend to a bankrupt country? and if indeed he did find a lender, what terms would the lender demand?

Someone in the Mail on Sunday even suggested that this current situation is going to get worse and could even result in war? could it?

A frightening thought.

[ROON]

Can't comment on the war but it had crossed my mind, and I'm not even up there with the politically intelligent.

 

I do believe that crime will worsen and instead of household goods that food and necessities will be on the thieves' agendas ..... they will see it as survival. Those of us who have worked all our lives to save up for our luxuries (inc mobile homes) will find ourselves constantly thinking about protection for them. It is scary. Until crime is dealt with properly all the rest will mean nothing eventually. :'(

[BGD]

Clive -

 

thanks for the tip, but I'd already concluded some while ago now that "Sterling assets" had become an oxymoron, because of UK debt and continuing borrowing....... as indeed have the whole international financial community: viz the downwards spiral of the pound, and now the failure of Darling's latest sales offer of 40 year Gilts to fund his continuing (IMHO)lunatic spending.

 

 

Seems that international commercial organisations have now had enough, and simply don't want to lend yet more money to the Gollum/Dahling and the UK Government any more.

I wonder why that might be?

 

[malc d]

CliveH

 

If the speech was simply to criticise Gordon Brown then it was indeed an excellent speech.

 

If it was designed to contribute anything to ending the recession I must have missed something.

 

From the seven 'alternatives' identified by BGD ( and apparently concurred by yourself ) which one do you think is most likely to stop businesses failing, get people back in work and bring the recession to an end ?

 

 

[CliveH]

Hi Malc

 

You must have missed the comment about the 30,000 non jobs in the public sector??? - WE HAVE TO STOP THE LUNACY OF PUBLIC SECTOR EXPANSION!!!!

 

Only "real jobs" - Wealth creating jobs - not spend the tax payers money jobs will help us now.

 

Instead of trying to spend your way out of recession and borrow your way out of debt, cut your spending and stop borrowing.

 

And as for getting the economy back on track - Hannon summed it up rather well - very well in fact but as I say 3 min is not enough to start -

 

BUT - Dickins, via his Mr. Micawber summed it up in 30 seconds.

 

"My other piece of advice, Copperfield, said Mr. Micawber, you know. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, andand, in short, you are for ever floored. As I am!

 

 

Dickens, Charles.

[malc d]

CliveH - 2009-03-26 11:57 AM

 

Hi Malc

 

You must have missed the comment about the 30,000 non jobs in the public sector??? - WE HAVE TO STOP THE LUNACY OF PUBLIC SECTOR EXPANSION!!!!

 

Only "real jobs" - Wealth creating jobs - not spend the tax payers money jobs will help us now.

 

Instead of trying to spend your way out of recession and borrow your way out of debt, cut your spending and stop borrowing.

 

And as for getting the economy back on track - Hannon summed it up rather well - very well in fact but as I say 3 min is not enough to start -

 

BUT - Dickins, via his Mr. Micawber summed it up in 30 seconds.

 

"My other piece of advice, Copperfield, said Mr. Micawber, you know. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, andand, in short, you are for ever floored. As I am!

 

 

Dickens, Charles.

 

 

 

With respect Clive, you must have missed my question about the seven alternatives to end the recession.

 

To my mind there are currently two problems:

 

A) How to end the recession as soon as possible ( on a world wide basis).

 

B) How to run things more efficiently in the future.

 

 

Having recently received a letter from the local NHS, which was partially translated on the back into about 13 different languages, I am well aware of the appalling waste of our money that goes on in the public sector.

Therefore, I am sure that you and I are likely to agree on many issues regarding problem B.

 

But the URGENT requirement is a solution to problem A, and I still do not detect any alternative strategies, that would have any immediate effect, being put forward to stop businesses failing and people losing their jobs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

malc d - 2009-03-26 12:25 PM ........... But the URGENT requirement is a solution to problem A, and I still do not detect any alternative strategies, that would have any immediate effect, being put forward to stop businesses failing and people losing their jobs.

Agreed.  All I have heard are proposals that would, I believe, if put into effect, make things much worse very quickly.  There are many who, with justification, criticise past government laxities.  Some criticise the present government's recent actions in seeking to prop up banks and buy back the "toxic" assets, some (with reason) are anxious about quantitative easing, many complain that nothing is working (If it does, it will in any case take time, as few of the measures proposed are yet in place and working).

However, despite all these doubts (many of which I share in some degree) I have not seen anyone set out exactly how letting the banks collapse, cutting back public expenditure, sacking public employees, and refusing to stimulate the economy in any way, would be beneficial.  I just can't see how this course could do anything other than make an already near disastrous situation truly catastrophic.

So, addressing these issues one at a time, but addressing them all please, could someone please lighten my darkness?  Over!

[CliveH]

They are trying to “lighten the darkness” in Ringwood Brian!

 

A chap writes a very funny letter in one of our excellent local Free Newspapers – he came back home to find a guy from the Council looking bemused outside his house. Apparently this guy had to replace a Streetlamp that was identified as Lamp Post number 5 (and then the road he lived in.)

 

However the author had lived there for 23 years and there never had been a Lamp post there. The offending but missing Lamp Post number 5 had to be replaced as health and Safety had deemed it too close to the road.

 

After a while the guy from the Council went away.

 

But came back and dug up the kerb to install new wiring and a new lamp Post was installed that did indeed light the road but also shone into peoples bedrooms at night. So the locals were not happy.

 

A few day later the author came home to find the Lamp post dug up and gone.

 

All done at the Tax payers expense.

 

If anyone wants to track down the full story it is by a Nigel Hurll, of Poulner near Ringwood and his very funny but worrying letter is published in the Ringwood and Fordingbridge News Issue 498 – 18th March to the 31st March 2009.

 

So at least we know were the light from the end of the Tunnel went! - It had a little holiday in Ringwood.

 

[omidknight]

BGD - 2009-03-25 12:25 PM

 

People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance."

 

 

Oh Bruce, just recently on my claim form for benefit from the DWP

It read

 

"Send us the relevant document with this claim form and sign the declaration.

 

Copies must be signed as being true and complete by the customer, a solicitor or a STOCKBROKER"

 

A stockbroker??