Champstar Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 My dealer has quoted me in excess of £300 to remove the thetford c200 (I think) with electric flush to try and get some access to under the shower room floor to try and shore up the floor as it seem to be flexing a bit. Is this an easy job that I could attempt without destroying my pride and joy. It is hard economic times so dont want to pay dealer labour charges? It seems to me the unit is held in place by screws in the cassette locker is this right...does anyone have any ideas. My dealer said they we going to use expanding foam so need to get access to the space under the all in one floor without removing the entire bathroom to get the floor up as they couldnt garantee that removing all wouldnt damage the walls or equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Champstar Take a look at: http://www.thetford.nl/web/show/id=84549/langid=42 This will give you installation instructions for the Thetford bench range and may be of help to you. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 Champstar There are three variants of Thetford's C-200 swivel-bowl/electric-flush toilet - one with an integrated water reservoir and the other two fed from the motorhome's own main fresh-water tank. I don't know which version your Champ has, but I'd GUESS that it would be easier to remove the last two types than the first one. There's a 2-page section in John Wickersham's book "Build your own Motorcaravan" about fitting a C-200CWE (the model with its own flush-reservoir) to his "Mystique" self-build motorhome, though I'm not sure how helpful it would be to you as you need to remove a toilet rather than install one. I believe there's a fair chance that, if you remove all the screws in the cassette-locker that look like they might be attaching the toilet to the wall/floor, then the thing SHOULD remove without too much hassle. However, whether it's as simple as that is likely to depend on the manner in which Lunar fitted the toilet initially. My own attitude to DIY is that, if I'm reasonably sure I shall be able to do something myself, or if I don't trust anyone else to do the job properly, then I'll have a go myself - otherwise I'll delegate the work to a 'professional' and be prepared to pay for their labour and expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 28, 2009 Share Posted March 28, 2009 However, I'm a little puzzled as to how removing the toilet will improve access under the shower room floor, unless you are referring to a combined GRP/ABS shower tray/floor liner unit, or quite how expanding foam will fix the problem.I am not familiar with the layout of this van but, assuming it is not on a platform-cab chassis, the shower room floor itself should be at least partially accessible from beneath the van.If it is a plastic shower tray/shower room floor liner that has begun to feel spongy over time, I would suggest some gentle dismantling of your own may be the best route to pursue, if at all possible.Assuming the floor started life reasonably firm, something has altered for it now to be flexing. That something, somehow, seem to me unlikely to be the plastic element alone, as these more often than not, sit directly on the ply van floor itself, sometimes with a thin felt pad interposed. None of these elements is likely, in normal use, to become so soft as to noticeably flex.If the shower has been used however, I would be a little concerned that water may have got under the tray, causing softening of the supporting floor beneath. This could be due to cracking of the tray, maybe around the outlet, a badly connected outlet, or a badly sealed (or failed) shower room wall joint - either where the wall meets the shower tray, or in a vertical joint in the wall itself. It is also possible that this bit of the supporting floor has de-laminated, and may require re-bonding. If either should prove the case, access for repairs seems likely to require at least removal of the tray, as well as the Thetford, and your own labour will be far cheaper than a dealer's for that little expedition! This will also be true for the cost of any subsequent repairs. Merely squirting expanding foam into the void will not prevent more water damage of that is the cause, and it will not fix a de-laminated floor. It seems to me, at best, a rather expensive quick fix, and likely to fail relatively soon after execution.I agree with Derek that it is unwise to commence on something that one cannot complete, but if you can undertake this yourself you will avoid the situation in which the dealer takes out the toilet, and then comes back to you saying he has to strip the whole shower room to see what is happening, and/or to effect the necessary repairs. After all, while the van is sitting partially in pieces in his workshop, with a still unresolved problem, it is difficult to change your mind about what you want to do, or how quickly to do it. Failing DIY, have you any reasonably skilled family members of friends who could help with the work, or even advise? Hope this helps, and even more that the problem, when revealed, is far simpler than my imagination suggests! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 I've had a quick shuftie on the web and many of the Champ toilets seem to 'sit' on the plastic moulding which forms the shower base - not knowing your exact model obviously I can't see for sure. If the flexing isn't really bad would you be able to make yourself a duck board to fit the whole of the area instead so that it would spread the weight evenly across it rather than just on the point at which you are standing? This may actually sort out the flexing if it's only minor - do you think it's worth a try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champstar Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 Thanks Derek Brian and Mel B. It seems that acording to Lunar that some flexing of the complete shower/toilet floor is common. The toilet area is higher than that of the shower part and seems to sit sit on a raised floor about 3-4 inches abover the normal habitation floor. It maybe that some expanding foam sealant would provide an extra support to provide a solid base where the abs in the toilet area to stop or lesson the flexing which if left unchecked will lead to cracking. It may seem an expensive diy repair but I cant afford the dealers prices for hours of removal..probably the whole contents of the toilet/shower room and then to be told that a new floor will have to be ordered from lunar who the have advised that this will take months to come from Belgium..where the champ range is made. So at least if this is tried and does fail then I will know where I stand. things like this make you want to change your van..but the bank manager would say no...so I have to mend and make do :-( :-( :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hi Champstar, I would go along with Mels idea of a duck board first before laying out large sums of cash. Make it so that it distributes the load evenly over the whole of the showertray. A shower trays worsed enemy is someone going in with shoes on thus putting huge consentrate of weight in one spot, bare feet are nearly as bad. That may well cure your problem without going to great cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Champster, from what you have said it sounds like the instalation is 'unfit for purpose' . Are luner saying if it is not reinforced the tray wil crack due to flexing. On a 3 year old Motorhome I think you have a case for going back to the Dealer or Luner and they have to pay to put this right. You expect a lot more than 3 years before a major repair. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Ranger, reading what has been said it does not appear to be the shower floor as such which is the problem, but the raised section from the toilet to sit on. When weight is placed on the loo, the tray where raised flexes and over time will crack the tray. It appears this raised part in the moulding needs to be reinforced. I have a very strong view if Luner are saying this is a comon problem then they have a duty to put it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillian Posted September 19, 2009 Share Posted September 19, 2009 I see that it's awhile since this thread was active but I am looking for a solution to a problem and I have and stumbled across it. I have a Lunar champ and my floor where the toilet sits flexes as described, it went back to Lunar but they did nothing in the 13 days it was with them. My floor eventually cracked, I had it repaired. If there is a step like mine into the washroom then you may be able to carefully measure and drill a hole through which you can insert the tube from the expanding foam aerosol and inject the product and then fill the hole with a cap. My problem is water seeping into the toilet bowl, is there a valve somewhere that may be passing when the pump is started by other services? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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