Mike P Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 In Raqchel's notes on RAC Seven Wonders of Britain, she comments on No 5: Hardnot Pass, "care will be needed with larger motorhomes" Please, please don't attempt this with anything larger than a modest panel van conversion, it has lots of haipins, many on 1 in 3 gradients with adverse camber. I drive the Harnot/Wrynose route regularly as it's a convenient short cut home if I have to work in West Cumbria, and I'm often amazed by the number of ordinary cars that get into trouble here.Years ago when I had an Autohomes Camelot I drove this route and by the time I got to Cockley Beck my brakes were smoking like mad and fading badly. If you want to see it, and it is fairly spectacular, park up and use the mountain goat bus. Mike P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kedavi Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Totally agree. I have been over Hardknot and the adjacent Wrynose passes many times with just about every car and motorbike I have ever owned. Hardknot is a very hard route on any vehicle, but I would never even consider it in any motorhome. Whilst the road in general may be 1 in 3, I reckon on the inside of the tightest hairpins (and they are very tight!) the gradient is more like 1 in 2. The road is very narrow and there are very few passing places. Caravans are quite rightly banned. I doubt my motorhome would have the turning circle to get round the hairpins in one go. I remember in the summer of '76 my dad had to reverse our fully laden Mini Clubman up Hardknot as the wheels were just spinning on the melting road. Happy days! Try that in your Fiat X250! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I endorse Mike P's comments, this road is not one to meet with someone coming in the opposite direction. I have driven all over western europe, including all the 9000ft+ passes in the Alps and have never seen anything to rival the Hardknott Pass. Driving over it at night is "interesting", as the bends are so tight that your headlamps will shine out into the abyss, leaving the road ahead unlit, except for the gleam of sheeps eyes (they tend to lie on the road as it is warmer that the hilside). Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike P Posted March 30, 2009 Author Share Posted March 30, 2009 So don't try to reverse your Fiat X250 up it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I once tried to take a current model Romahome over Hardknott and the front wheels came off the floor, losing all traction. My good lady (unreasonably?) refused to sit on the bonnet to act as ballast, so I suggested we reverse up the steepest bit, but got a very vicious glare. Last year I drove the Nu Rio (on Citroen Dispatch) over without any drama whatsoever, but daren't take our small Ducato anyhwere near it for fear of having to reverse on the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 At least the X250 should be able to manage reversing downhill Andy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Looks like my kinda road. Has anyone ever tried the Umbrail pass from Switzerland to the Stelvio in Italy. It is quite a challenge for a Motorhome but absolutely stunning. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Jones Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 When I lived in Cumbria, I remember taking our aircooled VW T2 Danbury over Hardknott and Wrynose - ONCE. That was when I discovered the limitations of the old VW's dash-mounted handbrake 8-) 8-) ! We went home via the other route! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizken Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I also agree. Not a route for the faint hearted, and if slightest trace of ice on road, you may not even make it in a car. From the Wrynose side is easier, but not a lot at the summit. Mountain Goat Mini Bus is the best option, as they are travelling the pass daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyStothert Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Mountain Goat use Renault Masters, and not Fiat Ducato it should be added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 We were 'doing' the Hardknot a few years ago and coming the other way was her ladyship on foot leading the way for her very frightened husband who was desperate to turn round and go back! They were elderly mark you, even older than me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 I have noticed on several occasions in MH articles the phrase 'in larger Motor Homes' and wondered just what this means. I considered RV's to be large Motor Homes but now see some of the twin axle outfits which measure up to 28 Ft. Is there a guide as to what is generally meant by the term 'larger M'Homes e.g. vehicles over a certain length ? It would certainly help when reading the articles and perhaps prevent me from venturing a route that would be totally unsuitable for my 'medium' sized van (24 Ft) - It appears that size can and does really matter :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everhopeful Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Blimey. You'd have to be an adrenaline junky to go over Hardnot in anything bigger than a car. Those going up daren't stop because they just will not restart on some parts. Some of those coming down can't stop because they've cooked the brakes. In busy times someone has to give and many jams cause much clutch smoking. White van man uses it as a "shortcut" but it's not his van so he doesn't care. My advice is never ever go in a motorhome of any sort. If you go in a car go when it's quiet as only then can you experience it properly. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Cracking bit of video, looks like a job for the Monkey bikes! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Brambles - 2009-03-30 1:12 PM Looks like my kinda road. Has anyone ever tried the Umbrail pass from Switzerland to the Stelvio in Italy. It is quite a challenge for a Motorhome but absolutely stunning. Jon. ....................................................................................................................... Jon, must agree with you great run. If you ever get that way again and have the time try heading from the Stelvio to Bormio, then take the S300 to Santa Caterina then on to the Gavia Pass. Great care should be taken if it is raining or damp because the road is hard clay except on the hairpins which are tarmac. Also it has a height restriction, I followed a M/H similar to a Compass 100 with no attachments on top and he was only just clearing the short tunnels, a great run though. If you are ever staying in the Innsbruck area, I can recommend a good days run by going over the Brenner (using the old road, not the motorway) to Sterling/Vipiteno, touristy but nice, then turn right onto the S44 and over the Jaufenpass to St Leonard. Turn right onto the S44a for the Timmelsjoch/pas Del Rombo, again look out for the overhangs At the top there is a tunnel which i think is 12'. then it's down hill all through the Otztal Vally (beautiful) quite a few camp sites here, then back to the Inn Valley. Just for ref, If you don't want to pay for tolls in Austria keep off the Motorways you don't pay on the normal roads. A lot of the roads do have 7.5 tonne limits so most of the above is not suitable for R/Vs ect. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Hi Dave, We drove the Stelvio to Bormio last summer because the Stelvio to East was closed for roadworks. Absolutely stunning. Not to mention the Stelvio itself had just been open after being closed a few days for snow (July). Not driven the Gavia Pass so will bear this in mind. (we like our passes). Great info on day out from the innsbruck area, and we will be back in the area again this summer so will print your message out in a minute and the follow it on the map. Many thanks for the info. Re Austrian Motorways, we tend to plan when we will be needing to use Motorways and buy a vignette to suit, Usually means our first few days we are using normal roads but not expensive for us as we are not over 3500kg and subject to tolls/charge box thingy. We have driven quite a lot of different hair raising passes and some pretty steep climbs, but enjoy them. Just take our time and amazing our 2 litre diesel copes so well. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Jon, We stay @ Maurach on Lake Achensee. From Munich keep on A8 until you pick up the Achensee/Tegersee direction signs. It's a good spot for touring around, Lot's to see, will be there sometime in August so if you see a A/S Duetto with a reg beginning with D**** give us a wave. My wife will say "Do you know them?"!!!!! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 We did Hardknott pass in our Elddis Autoquest 320 (1991 reg) van, it was in 2000 I think! We didn't have a problem except that our brakes got VERY hot!!!!!! I certainly wouldn't attempt it again though in a motorhome, when the brakes got hot it was extremely smelly and I don't think it did the clutch any favours either!!!! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kedavi Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well there does seem to be a concensus developing here. Anyone who knows the road wouldn't have a go at it in their motorhome. Of the few that have ventured over, none would attemp it twice. I wonder how many folks will read the article and have a go at it based on the MMM recommendation? I wonder if there will be a summer of stuck and broken motorhomes clogging the place up? Maybe MMM should issue a retraction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickt Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I do not know the Hardnot Pass but just had a thought on these steep roads how do they lay the tarmac and also roll it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin9591 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I think Fred Dibnah laid the tarmac some years ago, using a traction engine. On a more serious note, anyone attempting this route in a m/h needs to have their marbles replaced. If you watched the youtube bike video and think it looks OK then think again. This video gives a false, easy, impression of the steepness of the gradients and the tightness of the switchback bits. The local garages enjoy a summer long festival of collecting cars with two nearside punctures as what is not readily visible on the video are the sharp wheel/tyre destroying rocks that line the edges of these tracks. The natural reaction when faced with an oncoming vehicle in the middle of a single track road is to pull over. Whoops, there goes two tyres and perhaps two wheels if of the alloy variety. On a vintage (pre 1931) motorbike though, it's bliss to ride these passes, especially out of season or early morning, mid-week when the tourists are still in bed. Later in the day it turns into Piccadilly Circus. Best Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Hi, We have had motor caravans from 1969 we have been over Hard Knot in the following, VW type 2 Devon VW type 2 Motorhomes International Viking Austin Sherpa Auto sleeper Freight Rover Sherpa Auto sleeper Ford Transit Auto sleeper Flair Talbot Express Auto sleeper Sportsman Talbot Express Auto sleeper SL Talbot Express Auto sleeper Rambler Talbot Express Auto sleeper Harmony Peugeot Boxer Auto sleeper Ruby Rambler Peugeot Boxer Auto sleeper Symbol 2 no We have travelled both ways at different times the most difficult part in my opinion is Wrynose Pass with walls near to the road surface and few passing places. The worst trip was with melting road tar on the Ravenglass side. It is 3 years since we were over last. The better pass is Applecross we have done this many times the better way is from the coast side downhill as you don’t have to concentrate on the road as much and the view is of the full road top to bottom and the surrounding views as well you can pace yourself to the traffic coming uphill Regards Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lizken Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I remember a few years ago, a Spar delivery van had been delivering in Wet Cumbria and had asked a local for the shortest route to Ambleside - guess where he was directed, as it is the shortest rfoute. He ditched the vehicle not far up the pass, and was stuck for a few days, as many recovery vehicle drivers would not venture up. 'nough said ??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE SHEPHERD Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 A Morris 1000 van with sheep in the back is quite an adventure over Hardnot (1962/70) but I wouldnt try it in a motor home, we usually walk them over. TS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan k Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I remember going over Hardknot & Wrynose in an ex navy lwb landrover, we couldn't get round the tighter hairpins on the Ravenglass side. We had to do a shuffle on a couple of bends to get round. Tarmac laying? No think its spray tar and throw some chips on it!! Although I wouldn't try in my camper (although we did go over the Stelvio in it from Bormio 18 months ago), Hardknot is not really a problem if you're used to hills in a car, just get in the proper gear early enough and use the same gear up and down alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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