Dampness checks, a farce perhaps.

[libby]

So what's in a dampness check?

 

Most material except plastic and metal will absorb moisture. The air is full of it so what's so magical about having a check and for what purpose, is it just so the dealer can knock you down a few notes?

 

And what if the M/H is damp, a couple of nights with the heater on soon cures that.

[davenewellhome]

Not necessarily Bill. Last week during a hab inspection I discovered a serious level of damp in the luton pod of an elderly but generally well looked after Merc based Compass motorhome. The owner knew nothing of this damp but I got readings of 60% and 80% in the area and the timber work had gone spongy.

 

Several months ago on another vehicle I discovered damp in the drivers side wall around the awning mountings. The awning fittings had been overtightened and crushed the wall to the point that the outer GRP skin was cracked. I referrred the customer to Cannock resprays who ended up having to completely reskin that wall.

 

The majority of motorhomes are fine but every now and then I find a "wet" one and the owners were completely oblivious to it.

 

D.

[Usinmyknaus]

A timely thread Bill because I am approaching the date of my van's second birthday habitation check. The main warranty expires then but I have to consider whether it is worth paying for main dealer habitation checks for this and the next 3 years just to maintain the manufacturer's "seals" warranty.

 

Specifically, I would like to employ an independent engineer to conduct the checks but I was told that this will invalidate the seals warranty and I would effectively have to self-insure any damp problems over the next 3 years.

 

Anyone any views on the likelyhood of a low-profile coachbuilt of traditional, aluminium clad construction to suffer leaks in its first five years? Also any ideas on what would be a typical spread of the likely costs of repair (difficult I know - but I have no point of reference.)

 

Bob

[DerekF]

My motorhome suffered damp problems at the front of the low-profile cab. This was last year when the motorhome was only 2 years old. When it was checked by my supplying dealer they obtained readings of 85% is some areas. The motorhome was returned to the manufacturer to have the damp areas removed and replaced. I doubt very much if a couple of nights with the heater on would have solved the problem for me. For this reason I will play safe and continue to have a yearly habitation check carried out by my dealer.

[webbocj]

Bob

I am in the very same situation and also a Knaus, (not sure of the outcome re takeover!) I had it in my mind that the seals warranty was for 5years, spoke to Lowdhams yesterday-£50 and takes 1hour. I was not going to have the (2year only) annual warranty check done as apart from it costing £265(incl. damp) I feel everything is running ok. Booking a slot to comply with the warranty "window 24/26months" and the likelyhood of being away in this period (June/July/Aug.) is too much to try and organise. After all if the work is carried out, on say the last day of the period it is out of warranty the following day in any case! It appears Lowdhams use "ultrasonic" to test for damp!!!

Chris

[libby]

Some interesting replies. Maybe I'm not so smart after all !!

[Ranger]

The couple who have owned my old Holdsworth Ranger for many years ( They bought it from a dealer not me ) Got a damp reading from an area of the roof last year, repair man lifted a section of the roof and found the timber had all gone soggy. Repairs cost £2000 PLUS. My last van had an 80% reading on the luton roof dealer took it back as repairs estimate was over £1000. I now have a monocoque GRP van with no wooden frames to worry about rotting, and no joints to leak.

[fred22]

"So what is a dampness check"

 

A good question, and I think the answer is, in somepart "it depends who does it"

 

When I purchased my first motorhome(privately) I had the habitation side of it serviced. This service was supposed to include a damp test. No problems. No attention to seals etc was suggested.

 

About twelve months later I noticed damp in the wardrobe and took it back to the same place to have it fixed. I was informed that meter readings indicated excessive damp throughout the van with wet and probable rotting cross members.

I cannot beleive that the van went from "dry" to "wet through and rotting " in twelve months.

So what happened to the first damp check when the van was serviced. My guess is it was not done but how do you know?

The person who carried out the service offered to do the work but wanted me to accept an open cheque book kind of an estimate of min £2000- £3000 or so.

 

Another dealer checked the van over and said that the readings were not that bad and completely resealed the van and replaced a small portion of timber at the rear for a sum less than £1000. The timber at the rear had rotted because the area around screws from the roof ladder had been letting in water.

 

The van was dried out and was Ok when we exchanged it some time later.

 

The moral, find someone who you are happy with and can trust to do your servicing. They will build up a knowledge of your van which should help keep it in good order.

[Mel B]

Firstly, you shouldn't have to have a full habitation service done just to adhere to the terms for the water ingress warranty - this is because after 1, 2 or 3 years (depending on manufacturer), any faults found on the habitation aren't necessarily covered but the damp check is needed - they aren't going to force you to have a habitation but you MUST do the damp check ... I think that made sense!

 

For the relatively low cost of a damp check against the cost of remedial work if damp gets into the framework etc, it is worth having the check, that way any early signs of damp, or slightly higher readings than normal, can be found and measures taken to rectify problems before they become major, or monitored to see if they develop further.

 

We currently have a question mark over one small area on our van - the awning wasn't fitted particularly well at one point and our last damp check picked this up - it's not excessive, just slightly raised, so we are keeping a check on it to see if it develops further or if it was just showing as a higher reading due to the bad weather we'd had at the time (the rain runs off over this point when the van is parked on our drive). The place where we had the damp check done have offered to do another free check for us, 3 months from the original check, which we will certainly be taking up.

 

We had damp in our first coachbuilt motorhome - the rear offside corner, about 3ft high in the bathroom compartment - we didn't even know it was there until we came to trade it in! The technician who was appraising it for the PX found it and told us how to re-seal the external corner joint to stop it in case we didn't complete with the deal - very nice of him! It didn't affect the PX fortunately as it was a very good van anyway - the best he'd ever seen of it's type and age.

 

As for having a monocock body ... don't be misled - that doesn't mean you won't get damp in the van. The seals are one point of entry, but where bits and pieces are fastened, like us with the awning, or a bike rack, ladder etc, plus where the widows and roof vents are fitted, are all areas where damp can get in unnoticed.

 

Even our Rapido motorhome, GRP panel/capping body had joints - one massive one across the top where the front low profile capping joined the rest of the roof had a massive 1" join! Towards the end of the year one day I was up there (don't ask why ... I can't ruddy remember now ...! 8-) and noticed a cut in it about 2" long - this hadn't been spotted on the habitation check (carried out by a certain large firm) which had been done only a couple of weeks before. To keep it watertight I bought some Sikaflex sealant and used that to temporary fill the hole and put a coating of it across the top of the join to prevent any further problems, intending to completely renew the seal the following year after the winter weather had passed and it was a nice warm day. As it turned out we PX'd it in the February so I never did have to do it but I'm sure it would've been a 'fun' job!!!!! *-)

[Brian Kirby]

In the cases of the two Knaus vans, I would be inclined to check first what is the present procedure for obtaining remedy, and from whom, if water ingress is detected.

Remember, the warranty is offered by Knaus, not by the dealer, and is additional to (i.e. outside) your statutory consumer rights.  If the new owner of Knaus has undertaken to honour all claims under the (now defunct) Knaus company warranty, it would then be worth finding out exactly how claims under that warranty are to be discharged.

The snag seems to be that warranties offered by German (and possibly other "foreign" manufacturers) are based around vehicles being sold in their country of origin.  But when the vehicles cross the Channel, things get more complicated and more expensive.

It seems it will fall to the UK dealer to arrange for the repairs to be carried out, but I do not know what arrangement is made by the manufacturer to reimburse the dealer.

When Brownhills had the UK franchise for Hobby, I asked them how they dealt with the annual damp inspection records, that are all in German, and are supposed to be returned to Hobby as evidence that the van has had the inspection.  Brownhills reply was that they never bothered - make of that what you will.

When we found water ingress into the front of our (imported from Germany) van after 9 months, I first returned the van to the supplying (German) dealer - who was useless!  In the end, after I had worked out the source of the leak (defective application of sealant in the factory - and with a bit of help from Bundesvan, who did the import), a different (German) dealer supplied the necessary sealant and I carried out the repair.  I then had the first year damp check carried out by the second dealer and all was OK.  I shall take van back to same firm again this summer.

However, at one point it seemed the van would have to go back to the Hobby factory, which is near the Danish border.  I then discovered that under the circumstances where a van needs to be returned to the factory, under the Hobby warranty, it is the owner's responsibility to deliver and collect!  (I assume that with a direct purchase from a German dealer, the owner would expect the dealer to return the van to the factory.) 

So, in looking at what may be the value of the Knaus warranty, if any, it may be worth exploring such issues, as I suspect the answer may well be that worrying about maintaining the warranty is not now worth the lost sleep!  If the van has shown no signs of leakage since new, it would seem all the necessary sealant is where it should be, and is working as it should.  The sealants used are of very high specification, and are likely to last well beyond the warranty period - which is, of course, why they offer six year warranties!  Have the damp check by all means, for peace of mind, but I'm afraid I think your Knaus warranty is probably now worth rather less than just one damp check will cost you!

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian mentions Hobby motorhomes and Brownhills (no longer a UK agent for this marque).

 

Some time ago (pre-Brownhills reinventing itself) when I happened to be near the Swindon branch, I inquired there about the scope of Hobby's 'habitation' warranty as I was wondering if I could scrounge a replacement fresh-water filler cap and a bit of waste-water tank drain hose. I was told that any claim under the habitation warranty was inextricably linked to documentary proof being provided that the annual damp-check had been performed.

 

I never knew if this was just a Brownhills money-making ploy, actual Hobby policy, or merely a means to get me to b*gger off with my bought-on-the-cheap-in-Germany LHD vehicle, but it seemed bizarre to me that if (for example) a bed's mattress came apart internally - as happened on my motorhome - this should have any bearing on whether a damp-test had been done.

[JohnP]

I also have a Knaus.

 

Be assured that Lowdhams also use the pin type of Moisture Meter. When having your van checked insist that the Ultra Sonic type is used.

 

I am considering buying one of these, but even at £200 it would pay for itself in two/three years.(Including travel to dealers)

[Wills Wagon]

I am on my third AutoTrail. The first purchased in 2003 developed a severe damp problem which was found at the year 2 habitation service. It had to go back to the factory for 10 days to have the whole floor reglued and the rear end repaired. All due to faulty factory fitted pins in the rear moulding which let in water. All covered under warranty but we lost 10 days of travelling. Number two purchased in 2005 was perfect. Now on number 3 purchased in 2008 and 60-80% damp found round lounge window due to faulty factory fitted window. It will be repaired under warranty. The factory confirms I am unlucky but I question that. So in my opinion damp testing is essential.

[Usinmyknaus]

webbocj - 2009-04-09 10:43 AM

 

Bob

I am in the very same situation and also a Knaus, (not sure of the outcome re takeover!) I had it in my mind that the seals warranty was for 5years, spoke to Lowdhams yesterday-£50 and takes 1hour. I was not going to have the (2year only) annual warranty check done as apart from it costing £265(incl. damp) I feel everything is running ok. Booking a slot to comply with the warranty "window 24/26months" and the likelyhood of being away in this period (June/July/Aug.) is too much to try and organise. After all if the work is carried out, on say the last day of the period it is out of warranty the following day in any case! It appears Lowdhams use "ultrasonic" to test for damp!!!

Chris

 

Thanks Chris, your logic gives support to my own thoughts on habitation checks - I am finding it difficult to justify £265 for work I could almost all do myself - and indeed mostly do every month anyway. I have a prong type- damp meter somewhere, perhaps I'll dig it out.

 

Bob

[Usinmyknaus]

Brian Kirby - 2009-04-12 8:47 PM

In the cases of the two Knaus vans, I would be inclined to check first what is the present procedure for obtaining remedy, and from whom, if water ingress is detected.

Remember, the warranty is offered by Knaus, not by the dealer, and is additional to (i.e. outside) your statutory consumer rights.  If the new owner of Knaus has undertaken to honour all claims under the (now defunct) Knaus company warranty, it would then be worth finding out exactly how claims under that warranty are to be discharged.

The snag seems to be that warranties offered by German (and possibly other "foreign" manufacturers) are based around vehicles being sold in their country of origin.  But when the vehicles cross the Channel, things get more complicated and more expensive.

It seems it will fall to the UK dealer to arrange for the repairs to be carried out, but I do not know what arrangement is made by the manufacturer to reimburse the dealer.

When Brownhills had the UK franchise for Hobby, I asked them how they dealt with the annual damp inspection records, that are all in German, and are supposed to be returned to Hobby as evidence that the van has had the inspection.  Brownhills reply was that they never bothered - make of that what you will.

When we found water ingress into the front of our (imported from Germany) van after 9 months, I first returned the van to the supplying (German) dealer - who was useless!  In the end, after I had worked out the source of the leak (defective application of sealant in the factory - and with a bit of help from Bundesvan, who did the import), a different (German) dealer supplied the necessary sealant and I carried out the repair.  I then had the first year damp check carried out by the second dealer and all was OK.  I shall take van back to same firm again this summer.

However, at one point it seemed the van would have to go back to the Hobby factory, which is near the Danish border.  I then discovered that under the circumstances where a van needs to be returned to the factory, under the Hobby warranty, it is the owner's responsibility to deliver and collect!  (I assume that with a direct purchase from a German dealer, the owner would expect the dealer to return the van to the factory.) 

So, in looking at what may be the value of the Knaus warranty, if any, it may be worth exploring such issues, as I suspect the answer may well be that worrying about maintaining the warranty is not now worth the lost sleep!  If the van has shown no signs of leakage since new, it would seem all the necessary sealant is where it should be, and is working as it should.  The sealants used are of very high specification, and are likely to last well beyond the warranty period - which is, of course, why they offer six year warranties!  Have the damp check by all means, for peace of mind, but I'm afraid I think your Knaus warranty is probably now worth rather less than just one damp check will cost you!

Thanks Brian and perfect sense. I see your point about paying over the odds for habitation and damp checks which, if they find anything, are no longer able to benefit from a warranty, owing to the sad demise of Knaus. Two years ago I took your advice and bought the "Motorcaravan Manual" and "GO Motorhoming Europe" to get up to speed on the basics. Time perhaps now for me to dust off the books and shine up the contents of my toolbox. In the words of the Motoring Sage Clarksonious, "How hard can it be?"Bob ;-) :-)

[Usinmyknaus]

JohnP - 2009-04-14 9:25 AM

 

I also have a Knaus.

 

Be assured that Lowdhams also use the pin type of Moisture Meter. When having your van checked insist that the Ultra Sonic type is used.

 

I am considering buying one of these, but even at £200 it would pay for itself in two/three years.(Including travel to dealers)

 

JohnP. Naturally, my inner "bloke" tool/gadget buying radar sprang to attention at your post. "Ultrasonic damp detection" sounds great and for less than the cost of single habitation check, a cinch to justify................... now where's my credit card?

 

Seriously though, I have a twin prong type detector but will research the type you mention on t'internet as I have no clue what it means or how it works. But if it is significantly more sensitive and effective then I'll be happy to make the investment as part of my likely self-insurance scheme.

 

Bob

[ron.]

Bob

 

I think the meter that JohnP is referring to might well be the 'Aquant', one of the Protimeter series which also contains the most popular two-pin type.

 

I have had one for a couple of years and can confirm that they are very sensitive. So much so that I found damp that a dealers model failed to detect, even when shown where the damp was. Mine was purchased from Survey Express Services (www.damp-meter-direct.co.uk), current cost is £209.00

 

Ron

 

[Usinmyknaus]

Thanks Ron.

 

Bob

[broc]

My motorhome was serviced,MOT tested, and had a habitation check and damp check less than a month ago just before the warranty ran out. The work was carried out by the supplying dealer. According to the paperwork I received at the time it 'passed' the damp check ok.

 

SInce then, we have decided to 'downsize' and are about to part-exchange the vehice for a new one from the dealer who carried out the damp check ..... BUT... while emptying out all our gear this evening I have just discovered a significant damp patch on the wall inside a locker where the recessed awning is fastened.

 

Now I am wondering, was the dampness there a month ago but not found when the check was carried out , or could it be a very recent leak?

 

Can anyone say how long does it take for the wall board to go 'spongy'?

 

Obviously if I can argue the damp was present but not found when the check was carried out it will help me 'negotiate' a satisfactory outcome to what might be otherwise an expensive repair. Had it been found while the vehicle was still under warranty the repair costs would have been born by the dealer/manufacturer.....

 

(!)