starvin marvin Posted May 3, 2009 Author Share Posted May 3, 2009 Brock & His Lordship make very valid points which hopefully will be addressed by the editorial management team. If they are listening! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homenaway Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Hi, I agree with Martyn about the variability of readers' site reviews as a recent contributor with one in Austria (although my only name failed to appear - I took the photos, Sheila does the write up) :-D Yes why are there so many Club site reviews stating the obvious (we wrote to MMM to point this out) and frequently by the same regular contributors? It appears that different rules are applied by different editors as we submitted several continental sites but we understood that only two reviews per year are accepted from each contributor. Just to close (as do many letters ) MMM is a great magazine in many ways but it needs some fresh ideas :-D Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 The time is close when certain periodicals will become saturated with everyday information. There is only a certain amount that is new, and with the increase in M/H use and the excellent keyboard writing facility on the internet it’s becoming easier for anyone to advertise or write an interesting article. One doesn’t have to be a ‘journalist’ to put a story together. Story writers are now your everyday person with instant access to their work on forums such as these. Advertising fills a very large percentage of a page layout, and who needs advertising when the internet can provide instant and up to date information and often a cheaper product. Advertising is rather like in-store loyalty cards the customer pays for them!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wills Wagon Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Hello your Lordship I am a contributor to MMM and provide copy to be edited by the various editors and I do it because I enjoy it. While at work I wrote articles for and edited an innovative customer newsletter and it is not as easy as the armchair critics believe. I supply what the editors want and as others have pointed out you dont have to read everything, it is your choice, but site reviews do need to be comprehensive and cover most things of interest to the majority of motorhomers. There is nothing worse than going to a site that has been recommended and finding that something important to you was omitted from the review! Site descriptions in Club Directories also have omissions and some information at Club sites is less than helpful, it depends on the wardens/site managers. Some aspects that readers regard as important such as dog walks, play areas, TV reception, access to public transport and disabled faciliites are not relevant to everybody but are vitally important to others. And, yes many people like to know what power the electric hook-up is so they can decide whether there is enough power to run heaters, microwaves etc. In the UK, lots of sites dont have hook-ups and many have 10amp or less. On the continent it is unusual to find sites with 16 amp power, many are 4,5 or 6amp. Just to confirm the walk from Ferry Meadows to Peterborough along the railway takes about an hour at a leisurely walking pace. It is level, not particularily interesting, doesn't feel safe at the Peterborough end because of itinerants and on a bike takes about 15 minutes. It brings you in to Peterborough near the Railworld Museum at the bridge next to ASDA and the Riverside shopping centre. The best way into the city is on the bus! Your odedient Serf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Hello Chris and thankyou for your response. The point I was trying, (badly perhaps), to make was that apart from newcomers to the camping game, who doesn't know that almost every CC Site has the proverbial 16 amp/dog walk/spotless shower block/motorhome emptying point set of goodies on it? Not many I'd wager. To put it another way, if I was forced to blindly book a CC Site without use of the CC Sites book or the internet, I'd be pretty unlucky, (no, make that astonished), to find a tatty site, with no leccy and uphill pitches! I cheerfully concede that not everyone will use the web to research sites or the local area so some local info, as you provided is indeed welcome. I agree with you about the walk into P'boro though, it's weary.. Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Everybody who contributes to this forum is a contributor to MMM. Yes some threads get published but an awfull lot get read by the bosses and "taken into consideration". Don't forget that MMM is staffed by a very small team of salaried staff and an abundance of Motorhoming amateurs. Its a unique arrangement not mimicked by any of the other motorhome mags. Its also the most in-depth when it comes to reports, live in tests actually are live in tests. However back to reality, the shelf price goes no where near covering the cost of production and distribution. As a rule of thumb such a mag will need to remain solvent one page of paid adverts for each page of Amateur waffle on subjects that will please some of the people some of the time. Best read I guess will be readers letters followed by Interchange. Most admired will be Andy,s photographs and dry humour. Is the editorial swayed by advertisers pressure? Well I once found myself in a potentially difficult position so asked for some advice. It was swift and straight forward "Tell it like it is" was the answer. But new ideas are always a good thing, just send a PM to Mad Mick on this forum and you can't go much more direct that that! Perhaps the mag should be re-named BMC British Motorhomers Club? C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoHomer Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 I reckon that MMM is a quality mmmag. The editorial team write authoritatively and over the last 5 years I've picked up loads of useful info. for which I am grateful. However ......... are you listening MMM? One small suggestion. I think it is fair to say that some of the travel articles submitted by the readership could, with minimal editing, sit happily in the pages of a variety of other non-motorhome publications. They may be well written, informative and well presented but they can be a bit - how can I put this - general purpose. My small suggestion is that reader contributions could perhaps be selected for more motorhome (oops, another mmm sequence) specific content, within reason of course. MMM is a motorhome mag, after all. Now back to the chocolate gateau. Altogether - mmm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Martyn I agree that CC sites are excellent but not all the affiliated ones are so well kept. I spent 5 nights over Easter on one on the south coast. It was eye-wateringly expensive, pitches were unsuitable for m/homes as the hardstanding concrete was a long way from the tarmac roadways, unlevel, and much too small, caravans and even tents were pitched on the normal sized and designed pitches, toilets were filthy and unusable (I will refrain from giving details of their shortcomings), showers were really cold with no means of adjusting the temperature and water sparse, the motorhome service area was on a slope with a deep drop behind it etc. etc. The result was that despite paying premium prices I had to use my own faciliities and drag water up a muddy slope. The best part of the site was the dog field which couldn't be faulted! Perhaps I should submit a review as a warning to others! It obviously wouldn't be printed though but I shall certainly be writing a letter of complaint both to the site and to the CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 The best answer to that is to tell us all NOW if it really was that bad. Don't hesitate tell it now. It should then get some pretty quick attention. Why is it some people hesitate in complaining, liken the FIAT fiasco, there are so many that think they should not make a fuss. Gordon Bennet!!! get it out there, nothing will ever be done by keeping quiet. The Internet and its various forums are the biggest advantage of the modern age. Yes do write a review, if it's removed you can then tell us all that it was and there's a good chance that it would at least survive for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duetto owner Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 once i get experience i would be keen to review or write articles, too early yet just starting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Patricia, I've never been on an affiliated site so can't pass comment, however, I do agree with Bill in that you should let us know which site it is. Or plonk a "review" on here perhaps? Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmike Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Although I still subscribe to MMM I am getting very fed up with the same ol same old content and agree with others that putting two articles about the battlefields and two articles about Ireland in the one issue is dreadful. After attempting to read CampingCar Magazine (my French is very basic) I wonder wether the staff at MMM are really keeping their eye on the ball as there were several references to low profiles with drop down beds. Now I may have missed it but I can't remember anything about this new "craze" in MMM. I have to admit that I enjoy reading Andy's traveloges but don't let him review another van unless its a van conversion his last van review was so laden with having a pop at coachbuilts and there wider build, not just once but several times through the article. Also like others I would appreciate travel items having more of a motorhome focus. Even if you can't read French try and have a look at Campingcar Magazine as this is how it should be done, OK I know they have a bigger budget due to larger circulation but there are several items that could be included which would cost no more than some of the same old that appears in MMM. Also agree about pointlesss inclusion of club sites in the site reviews, most of the info can be gleaned from the relevant club handbook or is of no use because of not being a member of that particular club. Far more use would be a location campsite review where three or four sites in a particular area be reviewed, but maybe that would upset the clubs too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Mike, a good post in my opinion, particularly your last sentence containing your idea of reviewing an area. One very good example of this springs to mind. The village location we spend our main holiday at in France has 3 sites. The difference between them though is marked to say the least. One is a large Municipal ("ours"), another is essentially a long strip of tatty grass but right next to the river, and the last is a commercial site with a pool but much longer walk into the village. A reviewer championing one of the sites or condemning one could quite easily mislead someone. Imagine a reviewer staying at the commercial site mentioned above. They'd be quite correct in saying that it's a fair trek into the village, but that would surely put off a lot of folk. A quick trip to the other 2 sites would reveal that it's only a 5 min walk from them to the Village. Of course it's not hugely practical to expect a reviewer to stay at all the sites in an area, but perhaps a brief overview of the others would suffice? Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvynT Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 I wonder if what is being exhibited on this thread is the difference between the newer readers/members and the "old guard". MMM is a good read even if you haven't got a motorhome or go camping in any way shape or form. Reports from the same place might be caused by friends travelling together but going to see different areas/sites. If you reviewed all the threads you'd undoubtably find many repeated contributions from the same people, some original some plagerised. The older members passing on information and tips is a good way to learn from their collective experience, save making your own holes in tanks, and preventing you from visiting overpriced sites. Long may this continue. Dip in MMM when you want to, read what you want to, I read my (subscriber) copy front to back, but not in that order. I enjoy most of the articles, the ones I don't, I leave for later, I don't particularly enjoy the Austrian or Swiss camping reports, because I'm never likely to go. But I can use the information about the tunnel and road tolls, and can use my imagination what it must be like on the sites. I'm positive that Andy's reports from Croatia (if they ever get there) will brighten up my views on Eastern Europe, even though, like the others areas, I'm not likely to go. It doesn't worry me that there will be 4 or 5 pages each month devoted to this, I know they'll be good reading. I've filled in the editorial feedback which will be posted, snail mail, (now maybe something should be done about that), this weekend. Send your feedback in, write to the editors or find a publication that suits your views. Here's a borrowed tip, get out there and enjoy your life, it's far too short not to be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 This is copied from fjmike's post, so I hope he won't mind: "Also like others I would appreciate travel items having more of a motorhome focus." However, there were other similar comments and I'm afraid I don't understand what is being sought.MMM is a motorhome magazine, and it is clear the places visited in the travel articles were visited by motorhomers. What is of interest, surely, in these articles, is the places visited? How can a "motorhome focus" be added? Is it details of the motorhome that are sought, how easy it was to drive to the locations visited, where the writer stopped for the night, or what? If someone could explain a bit more clearly how this focus can be added, it might find its way into future articles. However, as expressed (not intended as a criticism), the sentiment seems to me so vague as to be capable of different interpretations by everyone who reads it.Personally, and accepting that the articles are submitted by other motorhoming readers, and not travel writers or experienced journalists, I find they provide all the info I want. If I want to go to a place featured (because of publication lag probably two years before the article can been read and the trip planned) I'll do my own research on routes and sites etc, since having the whole trip pre-digested, would remove most of the challenge, and nearly all the sense of discovery, in getting there and finding out for one's self. Or am I misunderstanding what this "motorhoming focus" is intended to be?Help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Can I add my name to the Andy Stothert fan club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted May 8, 2009 Author Share Posted May 8, 2009 Brian Kirby - 2009-05-06 8:54 PM This is copied from fjmike's post, so I hope he won't mind: "Also like others I would appreciate travel items having more of a motorhome focus." However, there were other similar comments and I'm afraid I don't understand what is being sought.MMM is a motorhome magazine, and it is clear the places visited in the travel articles were visited by motorhomers. What is of interest, surely, in these articles, is the places visited? How can a "motorhome focus" be added? Is it details of the motorhome that are sought, how easy it was to drive to the locations visited, where the writer stopped for the night, or what? If someone could explain a bit more clearly how this focus can be added, it might find its way into future articles. However, as expressed (not intended as a criticism), the sentiment seems to me so vague as to be capable of different interpretations by everyone who reads it.Personally, and accepting that the articles are submitted by other motorhoming readers, and not travel writers or experienced journalists, I find they provide all the info I want. If I want to go to a place featured (because of publication lag probably two years before the article can been read and the trip planned) I'll do my own research on routes and sites etc, since having the whole trip pre-digested, would remove most of the challenge, and nearly all the sense of discovery, in getting there and finding out for one's self. Or am I misunderstanding what this "motorhoming focus" is intended to be?Help! Brian, I think what "fjmike's" comment means is that in his view and several other contributors on this thread is that the MMM's editorial management has let the content slip so that the mag is now less than good and it needs a shake up. I agree that they have certainly taken their eye "off the ball". I look forward to a reinvigorated magazine should the management bite the bullet and set a higher standard for the reviewers/writers to meet and make sure that higher standards are met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmike Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 What I meant was a lot of the travel articles (not all) read like a tourist guide ie:- Joe bloggs died here, king such and such had a battle there. This sort of info is readily available from other sources such as the local TIC. Brian did include some of the stock items that should be in a motorhome travel article. Including suitable parking spots if no Aire available or quality of food or service received from particular venues, quality of roads travelled I would also find helpful. Maybe it would help if others contributed what stock info they would like to see in a motorhome travel article, I appreciate that this could become a bit much the same ish after a while but a little editing should make for more in depth articles and hopefully a better magazine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordThornber Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 For what it's worth, the following are a selection of what I, (note I), would like to see in any travel article and/or Site review. Distance to nearest town Availability of drinking water and I don't mean, "there is water on site" Any Pubs/eateries/shops nearby and any reviews of them Site fees Any cycling/walks nearby and to what difficulty level are they? Feel free to add or take away what you like Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 My tip for people reading travel articles is to be wary of going to see "fantastic" or "incredible" views that you read about. Last year we did an 8 mile deter down a narrow winding road to see a view described in an article as "fantastic" and it was a waste of time and fuel, as the view just turned out to be 'nice' ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 fred wood like to see the nearest tracter servicing point me ansums. any takers on that one, or is fred bein a little optomistic my luvvers?? f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 fred grant - 2009-05-11 7:10 PM fred wood like to see the nearest tracter servicing point me ansums. any takers on that one, or is fred bein a little optomistic my luvvers?? f You want to know where to buy EasyStart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 fred grant - 2009-05-11 7:10 PM fred wood like to see the nearest tracter servicing point me ansums. any takers on that one, or is fred bein a little optomistic my luvvers?? f Why would you need to know that Fred ? Is your motorhome based on a New Holland chassis ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal55 Posted May 11, 2009 Share Posted May 11, 2009 fred grant - 2009-05-11 7:10 PM fred wood like to see the nearest tracter servicing point me ansums. any takers on that one, or is fred bein a little optomistic my luvvers?? ffred, if you stick to carrnwal. zummerzet and darrrset you should be fine :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 12, 2009 Share Posted May 12, 2009 I have a small number of copies of MMM and Which Motorcaravan that date from 1996 when I began to take an interest in motorhomes. The magazines were certainly 'different' then, but definitely not 'better' in my view and, if I saw them nowadays on a newsagent's shelves, I wouldn't buy them. I'm sure that, in 1996, when I knew hardly anything about motorcaravanning and was avid for information, I found everything in them stimulating, useful and exciting. In 2009 my motorhome appetites have become jaded, but this is exactly what I would expect to have happened after 13 years of exposure to the pastime and, as far as I can see, inevitable. I've been a MMM subscriber for a good while now and I'm happy enough with the magazine's current format. As far as I'm concerned there is still sufficient variety and 'quality' in it to justify the price I pay for it. Unlike Starvin Marvin I consider MMM as a whole to be "interesting, accurate and informative". If I had to list the magazine's road-test authors in order of personal preference I'd put Dave Hurrell at the top, which is the opposite to Marvin and just proves that peoples' tastes differ. It's easy enough for readers to micro-criticise articles on style, content, accuracy, etc. but I'm 100% certain that MMM's editorial team reviews the magazine's format continuously with a view to boosting its sales and revenue and, if it's felt that elements of it are unpopular or can be improved, then changes will be made. The only other UK motorhome magazine I read is Motorhome Monthly - a hideously poorly edited publication that very occasionally contains something of interest to me, but whose primary attraction is that it's free! I've also bought French motorhome magazines over the years. There are currently at least four different offerings and, as with UK leisure-vehicle publications, some of the French ones don't appeal to me. The two main players are Camping-Car (CC) and Le Monde du Camping-Car (LMdCC) and I (probably) prefer the latter. The motorcaravanning scene in France differs significantly from the UK's, as does the country itself. I see no way in which attempting to superimpose the format of CC or LMdCC on to a UK motorhome magazine (or vice versa) would be successful either financially or as far as readership satisfaction would be concerned. In any case, I'm confident that MMM's editors keep an eagle eye on non-UK motorhome publications for ideas that may boost their own magazine's popularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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