Richard North Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 I have have just purchased my first motorhome a used Autotrail Mohican, from a respected moterhome dealer. However in just having looked at the new MOT certificate, there are a number of advisory issues listed as follows: - Nearside rear Front wheel bearing has slight play - Front brake discs slightly pitted -Brake application uneven on rear investication recommended -Front crossmember corroded (offside front) Apart from being confused regarding 'Nearside rear front wheel bearing', I am surprised that the dealer (one of stature, I believe) was prepared to supply the vehicle with these diagnosed problems, having supposedly given the vehicle a full service and safety check, DO I HAVE ANY COME BACK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Richard , :-D Welcome to the Forum, its a grand place for information and there are some great brains on the members list of this forum, Sadly I,m not one of them. If you have only just got the vehicle I certainly would take it back and ask to see the Sales Manager ,especially if you were not informed there were a minor defects ,But which are future problems for yourself , ( these may have only come to light on the Mot )I would start by saying that you should have been advised of these Defects which will require fixing in the near future which could have had a difference to your decision to buy , You may get no where but its worthy a try, a visit to your citizens advice centre may help. some one more up to date with the law may be along soon , but you have nothing to lose by trying. Nearside = side nearest the kerb, Offside =Drivers side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallii Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 All the items apart from the corrosion on the front cross member are fairly straightforward fixes. Item one:- Change the wheelbearing, cost maybe £10-£15 from your local parts dealers, a lot more from a main dealer. Fitting time should be about 1/2 hour. Item two:- The disc on the nearside front can be changed at the same time as doing the wheel bearing, the other side and new brake pads should take about 1 hour and cost maybe £60 parts plus labour. The rear brakes need stripping and inspecting, sounds like a sticky calliper, if so, they are best replaced with new brake pads all round. The corrosion is another matter, it needs careful inspection as it may be unsafe, you need someone who knows what to look for to inspect it. AA, RAC, or your local garage will inspect for you and do a report. Then I would get some quotes and ask the supplying dealer to choose which one he wants to accept before you go to the small claims court. Most dealers will have allowed for some work such as this in the purchase price, they won't volunteer to spend any money but if you ask they will usually cough up. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Advisory notes on an MOT should not be safety issues when the cert is issued, they are things to keep an eye on, although the uneven rear braking would concern me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 hallii - 2009-05-04 9:23 PM All the items apart from the corrosion on the front cross member are fairly straightforward fixes. Item one:- Change the wheelbearing, cost maybe £10-£15 from your local parts dealers, a lot more from a main dealer. Fitting time should be about 1/2 hour. Item two:- The disc on the nearside front can be changed at the same time as doing the wheel bearing, the other side and new brake pads should take about 1 hour and cost maybe £60 parts plus labour. The rear brakes need stripping and inspecting, sounds like a sticky calliper, if so, they are best replaced with new brake pads all round. The corrosion is another matter, it needs careful inspection as it may be unsafe, you need someone who knows what to look for to inspect it. AA, RAC, or your local garage will inspect for you and do a report. Then I would get some quotes and ask the supplying dealer to choose which one he wants to accept before you go to the small claims court. Most dealers will have allowed for some work such as this in the purchase price, they won't volunteer to spend any money but if you ask they will usually cough up. Geoff Change wheel bearing in 1/2 hour? certainly not, more like 4 hrs minimum. The rear brakes are not disks, but shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 You most certainly do have comeback. The dealer was aware of information and has witheld from the the customer. It is the norm when ever any one buys a vehicle having passe an MOT any work advisory or required has been carried out or customer informed. When you get an MOT carried out, the garage/tester must verbally tell you and point you to the advisory notes so they CANNOT be overlooked. The dealer acting as 'an agent' for this new MOT test should have informed the end customer...you. He has failed to do so, and now has to put right or make an agreement with you to cover the cost of rectification or fully refund. If you get no joy with dealer, then tell him you are going to contact Trading Standards and then do so. You may wish to contat them first for advice on how to handle the situation as all guns blazing is not the answer. Often probems like this are an oversight and dealer may not have been aware, but is still his responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvynT Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Go back to the dealer, agree who's is doing what and how much it will be. If you are contemplating doing the work yourself then, I've got to agree with Peter on this one, wheel bearings are at least 4 hours per side, make sure you have everything you might need before starting, especially the grease and new split pins. Brake pads, maybe 3/4 hours per side, you'll need a high temeprature lubricant like Copperslip, used sparingly. However the advisory says Discs, this is about 8 hours plus, if you can get the bolts out, if you haven't got the correct gear don't start, you'll end up with a damaged hub. Corroded cross member, surely that would be a fail, but replacing it would be a 12 to 16 hour job at home. Name the dealer let's all know who to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 dont understand the problem, the 'faults' are not mot failures. The van has been sold with an passed mot. The only come back on this is if the 'faults' are mot failures, and they sold it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 Handyman is right, advisory notes on a mot test are just that, to advise that these items may need attention in the future. The crossmember isn't structural, therefore doesn't come into the test, my friends Hymer/Fiat front crossmember was falling to bits and went through 3 mot's. Most discs pit after a couple of years, especially on motorhomes where the van may be stood for long periods without being used, it doesn't become a problem until they start to get scored. Wheel bearings can be a failure item, however, it is near on impossible to have a bearing with no play at all. Finally uneven brake application probably means one side is more efficient than the other, but they have both passed the required brake application test. In my opinion, the dealer hasn't tried to hide anything from you as suggested by a couple of posters, he gave you the advisory slip along with the mot, he could have just kept that to himself. You ask whether you have any comeback, on what ? The van came with a full Mot, if you took it back to the test station yourself, it would still pass. Unless the dealer gave you specific guarantees that there were absolutely no faults, however minor with the van, I fail to see how he has misled you. My advice would be to go out and enjoy your van, call in the dealers on your way back, tell him your concerns and suggest that he offers to rectify the bearing and discs and try to agree on a compromise, eg you supply the parts, he supplies the labour, other than that, I really don't think he has done any thing wrong or underhand. Welcome to the forum Richard, enjoy your van, and don't fret too much about the faults you have found out about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 handyman - 2009-05-05 6:08 PM dont understand the problem, the 'faults' are not mot failures. The van has been sold with an passed mot. The only come back on this is if the 'faults' are mot failures, and they sold it like that. I wish that was the case here. Last July we traded our 1998 Rapido in for a 2002 Laika. The Rapido had a Passed CT (MOT) with a couple of advisories on it. When we arrived at the dealers in Bordeaux we were told that when they re-sell a van it has to have a completely clear CT (MOT). One of the items was a wheel bearing and if we had known of the clear CT problem we would have had the bearing done before it went in. We accepted that we would have to pay to have the bearing done and waited for the cost. A couple of months later we received an invoice on which they had replaced both wheel bearings. Luckily Martin made a deal that we paid half the cost. The lesson is that you have to be very careful when it comes any items that are on the MOT even the advisory ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 is there some kind of law i dont know about? Randonneur, you say the dealer has to have a clear mot. Thats them, its not the law. As far as i can see, its been sold road worthy, and anything they do will be as goodwill. You can ask to see the mot and any advisories before purchase, and use as a tool to get them repaired or get money off, but not after its bought. They could say its road worthy and thats the price, take it or leave it. It does mean another way of getting a reduction, hadnt though of this, so its a good tip B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 handyman - 2009-05-05 8:41 PM is there some kind of law i dont know about? Randonneur, you say the dealer has to have a clear mot. Thats them, its not the law. As far as i can see, its been sold road worthy, and anything they do will be as goodwill. You can ask to see the mot and any advisories before purchase, and use as a tool to get them repaired or get money off, but not after its bought. They could say its road worthy and thats the price, take it or leave it. It does mean another way of getting a reduction, hadnt though of this, so its a good tip B-) No Handyman, I didn't say it was the Law, just the Dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 exactly my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelvynT Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Got to disagree with Donna, cross members are mainly structural, Outriggers on the other hand are only structural on monocoque cars. What else would keep your chassis, beautiful that it might be, from folding together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 You might disagree with what I've said, but unfortunately it doesn't make you right. The front cross member on the Fiat, Peugot,Talbot vans are not structural and do not come into the MOT, as I said, a friend has a Hymer on a Fiat chassis, as do I, and his was rotten as a pear when it went through last years test, mine is heading that way as well. Out riggers on the other hand DO come under test as they provide support for the outer sections of the floor, where as the front crossmember is merely a means of supporting the radiator and associated pipework. Other crossmembers may be different eg, gearbox support, but we are not talking about them. A quick call to a testing station will varify what I have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 As has been said an advisory note on an mot is just that. the items in question should be ok until at least the next mot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 rupert123 - 2009-05-06 6:35 PM As has been said an advisory note on an mot is just that. the items in question should be ok until at least the next mot. Or maybe not? When I had our elderly RAV4 tested last time there were a couple of 'advisories' about brake discs and pads and upon me asking the tester, he said that in his view they were all just about OK for now 'but would almost certainly need replacing to pass the next MOT'. So as with many things MOT wise many things are a 'grey' area it seems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 you can leave the mot station with 4 legal tyres, and the next week they can all be illegal................ You could say anything in a 5 year old motorhome will be worn and therefore could break in the near future. Me thinks you should have bought a new van if you didnt want any wear on anything on or in the van The price of a used van reflects the fact its used and worn. It was legal when sold. Surely theres nothing more to it than this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 That's a bit harsh Handyman! At the prices these dealers charge for the vans I think he has every right to expect the van to be as near mechanically perfect as possible and I for one would most unhappy with a suspect front wheel bearing and uneven brakes on a vehicle of this weight. These are commercial vehicle supposedly designed to drive to the moon and back and to supply a van with this sort of unresolved issue on a five year old vehicle with probably not that many miles on the clock is partaking of the Michael in my view. Take it back and politely and insistently and with a smile push them a bit harder. Or maybe get it MOT'd at another place for a second opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 In the past, when we used to buy older used cars, we were looking at a Citroen privately. The chap selling it was happy for us to have it checked out by a local garage, which we did, best £5 we'd ever spent! They found that all the brakes, pipes etc were extensively damaged/worn and well on their way out, no way would they have passed an MOT. We obviously decided not to buy the car and the chap was rather shocked at what we'd found, genuinely so, not sure what he did with the car but we were very lucky not to have ended up with a problem for the sake of a check. If I was buying an older used motorhome (ie 2 years or more old), then I'd certainly insist on an independent garage check before parting with my hard earned dosh. As for this instance, you've got nothing to lose by going back to the dealer and making your feelings known, politely of course. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 If you paid the asking price you are entitled to expect no unreasonable defects. Worn wheebearings pitted discs and rusted crossmember look to me to be a poorly maintained vehicle probably parked on grass or damp soil. My Elddis is 12 years old with full history and invoices and the bearings disks and crossmember are original. Dont put up with a motorhome that seems like it may be nothing but trouble, Motorhoming is for fun not constant repairs. I dont mean to be negative but make the dealer put the faults right or replace it with one in better condition. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Tracker - 2009-05-06 7:57 PM That's a bit harsh Handyman! No its not, its facts! The dealer doesnt need to do anything, as the van is legal and safe (within legal limits). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 -Brake application uneven on rear investication recommended The vehicle may well be safe but the above advisory is saying it may not be. The dealer has been negligent if he has not had this particular recommendation caried out. But what makes me amused by all the comments including my own previously, is we do not know yet as Richard North has not responded, If indeed the dealer did actually follow up on these advisory notes. For all any of us know the dealer may have rectified the discs, rear brakes and wheel bearing and that is what he as omitted to tell the buyer as it was a matter of course for the dealer to do these things. We really should wait for a response from Richard before any more arguing over this. As we know many 1st time posters never respond again or is after some time. Richard, please come back and let us know how you got on. As you can see, people here really are interested and I would say concerned for a good outcome. Certainly been a very interesting debate. Jon. edit - very bad typos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clay Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 very good point brambles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted May 7, 2009 Share Posted May 7, 2009 Brambles - 2009-05-06 10:46 PM The vehicle may well be safe but the above advisory is saying it may not be. The dealer has been negligent if he has not had this particular recommendation caried out. Has everyone lost their minds? It has passed an MOT. In any court of law, this is what counts. How the hell could the dealer be negligent *-) Please explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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