armstrongpiper Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 A friend of mine with a M/H without a spare wheel has decided to travel without the supplied Jack, since he argues that he wouldn't Jack-up the vehicle himself even if he did have a spare wheel, but call out his rescue service. The Jack weighs several Kg and it seems to me a reasonable way of saving a little weight to put towards carrying what you do need instead. However, I feel just a little uneasy following his example, and just wonder what the rescue service would say in the event of a call-out. What do you think? Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Because Jack would complain if we left him behind . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Didn't you notice the 'a' in front of the Jack? Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 'Twas a joke. I carry the vehicle jack and two scissor jacks because when its wet grass it is easier to level up on a bit of wood than try to drive up the ramps. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 Richard - It seems to me you are carrying a lot of clobber and extra weight to avoid using ramps. You must have to carry a substantial piece of something to rest the jacks on to level up, and then do you 'live-in' whilst the vehicle is jacked up? I think I prefer ramps. Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 This has been discussed before and usually ends in two polarised views! For my own part I would never travel without a spare wheel let alone the jack as I have seen first hand the result of a sudden deflation on our motorhome and a temporary inflation kit would be as much use as a chocolate teapot. Check your recovery conditions as some will charge you to recover you if you have no spare wheel available and will not guarantee to get you going after recovery. When we experienced our deflation on the M20 I had the wheel changed and we were ready to move just as the breakdown services arrived and they arrived well within the guaranteed 30 mins. So would I leave (the) Jack behind, no not ever? Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted May 13, 2009 Author Share Posted May 13, 2009 My recovery service say they know many vehicles don't carry spare wheels and will continue to give the service required regardless. As for the spare wheel, my M/H has no facility to fit a wheel carrier. I suspect the additional mass of wheel + carrier would lead to overweight difficulties, so the question remains, should I leave the Jack at home? Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Most these days will certainly not charge you if you have no spare provided the van did not come with one as standard. I have a van that came with no spare but did come with a jack which I have thrown out. Probably would rather have a spare but do not so I just get on with it and could not care less, throw the jack out its useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbow-Chasers Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I would suggest buying a spare wheel, even one from the breakers yard or from ebay, and getting a decent trolley jack to caryy with it. Most jacks supplied with most conversions are pretty useless - with the exception of ones supplied with bottle jacks. Travelling without a spare, especially something OVER 3.5t will cost you dearly - during my last employment as a recovery technician, new rules came in stating £4600 for recovery charges (classed as heavy recovery) If these charges are being charged, i have no idea - but you never know if the company in the area you break down in have adopted these charges or not! If under 3.5t, your light recovery truck will take you away - there are risks involved during loading, especially if the puncture is on the rear - plenty of wood is used to raise the angle up to clear the ground as it loads on - extra charges apply as usually it is a two person job. Of course, if you only have a short over hang, they may have enough wood, if not, your motorhome may scrape it's undercarriage on the floor! Worth the risk? Go and blow £40 on the right stuff, get a puncture - change the wheel in 15 minutes and back on the road! Better than waiting hours, getting towed back to recovery base to find it is shut or doesn't do tyres, then get given a loan car which means hotel bills, the loss of your pitch at the camp you should have been at and running around in the morning trying to find tyres before you can get on with your holiday or get home! Not worth the agro in my opinnion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Neil B Weight is not an issue for me as I have a 970kg payload. I tow the car as well so a bit of wood and extra metal doesn,t make a lot of difference. Especially when I return from Europe with 150 lts of wine in the garage. On the subject of ramps I also carry those. When it is wet grass I jack the wheel up and I have a scaffold plank cut into various lenghts to put under the wheel. I have known ramps to sink into the ground so wood spreads the load better. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Rainbow-Chasers' - 2009-05-13 5:29 PM I would suggest buying a spare wheel, even one from the breakers yard or from ebay, and getting a decent trolley jack to caryy with it. Most jacks supplied with most conversions are pretty useless - with the exception of ones supplied with bottle jacks. Travelling without a spare, especially something OVER 3.5t will cost you dearly - during my last employment as a recovery technician, new rules came in stating £4600 for recovery charges (classed as heavy recovery) If these charges are being charged, i have no idea - but you never know if the company in the area you break down in have adopted these charges or not! If under 3.5t, your light recovery truck will take you away - there are risks involved during loading, especially if the puncture is on the rear - plenty of wood is used to raise the angle up to clear the ground as it loads on - extra charges apply as usually it is a two person job. Of course, if you only have a short over hang, they may have enough wood, if not, your motorhome may scrape it's undercarriage on the floor! Worth the risk? Go and blow £40 on the right stuff, get a puncture - change the wheel in 15 minutes and back on the road! Better than waiting hours, getting towed back to recovery base to find it is shut or doesn't do tyres, then get given a loan car which means hotel bills, the loss of your pitch at the camp you should have been at and running around in the morning trying to find tyres before you can get on with your holiday or get home! Not worth the agro in my opinnion! Sorry Rainbow-chasers but this is largely rubbish. I agree better to have a spare but if, like me, you have a small van, 3300 kg, which did not come with a spare and has no room to fit one where do you suggest I carry the spare and a trolley jack. If the rescue company states that they will sort me out if I get a puncture they are contracted to do just that, size of van makes no differance, they know the size when they take the contract on. If they damage the van they pay, if I need to stay in a hotel fine, they pay for that as well. I may be delayed for a day but at Least I am not risking a 3.5 ton van falling on my head as I try and change a wheel, that is even assuming you can get at the spare which on my last van I could not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 Basil, I'm 100% behind your view on spare wheels and jacks, I've just checked the lifting capacity of my bottle jack and it's 12ton, it came off my Merc tracter unit so I doubt I will ever have a lifting problem. I also carry a 3/4 bar and a 21mm impact socket so those wheel nuts will definitely come loose when they have to. As for trolley jacks they are a waste of space unless heavy duty and I would try it out first before putting it on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 I carry a 8 ton bottle jack, a breaker bar and a 21 mm heavy socket, and I purchased a new spare alloy and new tyre, I think you should ask yourself these questions, Have I the room for a spare wheel, Have I the spare weight capacity for the spare and finally Am I confident/Comfortable changing a spare wheel ,Maybe on a busy road, if you answer no to any of those questions, I would depend on the breakdown services, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 My BMW has run flat tyres and I don't even get a jack to not go with the non existent spare wheel. I do however get a can of gungey gooey stuff that I'm told will bu**er up my tyre and valve and require a new tyre in the event of a puncture. I always carry a 12v inflatoe which BMW don't supply on the reckoning that most punctures are not sudden deflations and more often than not you can bung some air in and carry on - even if you have to stop a couple of times prior to getting home it's better than messing about being ripped off for a new tyre in a strange town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 13, 2009 Share Posted May 13, 2009 My scissor jack supplied with vehicle has proved to be one of my most useful accessories. Stuck in mud on a campsite in Slovenia with no one to tow me out, I jacked up the sunken wheels, filled in the dip wih some stones and hey presto I got out no problem. Again in Czech republic on a site when it raned overnight and one wheel sunk. This time filled teh hole with broken twigs. Lowered the van again and out I got. Also been on some steeply sloping sites where ramps where not enough to get level. Again the jack proved useful to help get a bit more level. Another time, I got a stone stuck between the back plate and front disc and squeeled like mad. I had to use to get wheel off and find what was causing the brake squeal, not to mention just a month ago one of my brake pads friction material broke up completely and the material fell out. Pretty scary when you pump the pedal and nothing happens for a while..next thing massive grating sound as I came to a halt. So all in all, would never venture far without a jack and basic tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted May 14, 2009 Author Share Posted May 14, 2009 Yes Mr Brambles, you have described the kind of events where I imagined that the Jack would be sorely missed, so on balance I think the thing will stay in the 'van. Thanks all, Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 My Transit-based Hobby has a spare wheel and carries its Ford-supplied scissor-jack and wheel-nut wrench in a small compartment in one of the cab door-wells. The jack is adequate for changing a wheel (as I've used it to do so) and the wrench is adequate to loosen the wheel nuts (as I tightened them up myself in the first place). The jack + wrench don't weigh much and it would be a daft decision on my part to leave them behind when travelling. In the event of a breakdown, it's improbable that a recovery service will choose to use equipment carried within a motorhome in preference to their own professional kit, the exception being any 'special' tools (eg. an extension bar to reach a spare-wheel lowering/raising mechanism) that are specific to a particular model of vehicle. Nevertheless, as Brambles highlights, having equipment on board able to lift and/or remove a motorhome's wheel can be a godsend even when a puncture is not involved. As I've mentioned before, I had both rear tyre-valves fail on my Hobby. This was on a Saturday afternoon in France and having a spare wheel and jack allowed me to fit the spare on one side of the vehicle and use the jack to support the motorhome on the opposite side until the following Monday when the tyre-valves could be replaced. OK, this scenario may well be unique, but it's another example of how useful a jack and a spare wheel (and the ability to use them) can prove to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 I played safe and purchased a spare wheel, my Autotrail came with a compressor and puncture repair aerosol. Provision has already been provided to carry a spare below the floor at the rear of the van, so it was not much of a problem, but Autotrail decided to go down the cost saving route and use an aerosol. My misses made it quite clear no spare, she it not going away in it, I brought a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Oh you lucky people who have a payload sufficient to carry a spare elephant. For me without such luxury it is all a compromise. Do I carry water to be able to wild camp and enjoy the freedom of motorhoming or something else. My Tracker EKS does not have a spare wheel and comes with the gunge. My solution (albeit not one which I accept may not cover all eventualities) is a good inflator for the slow ones and Tyron Bands to get me to safety and assistance for the really serious ones. Porky well fed and happy (but not with my payload) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapido-lass Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Our Motorhome came with no spare wheel just a can of yuk. We purchased a spare wheel and carry a bottle jack. It means that we have had to give up some space and payload, but its peace of mind that whilst we are on holiday we need not waste valuable time if we get a puncture, worst still if the tyre shreds. In my opinion, manufacturers are thinking of everyway they can save money combined with offering more storage etc that we are demanding, and lets be honest many manufacturers see the sales of motorhomes as just expensive garden ornaments as many owners leave them on the drive for months on end rather than use them. When was the last time you saw a knome with a spare wheel and a Jack sitting holding his fishing rod in a garden?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Rapido-lass - 2009-05-14 10:22 AM lets be honest many manufacturers see the sales of motorhomes as just expensive garden ornaments as many owners leave them on the drive for months on end rather than use them. When was the last time you saw a knome with a spare wheel and a Jack sitting holding his fishing rod in a garden?? There are several vans like that near us - they never go anywhere other than maybe one fortnight per year and I wonder how their owners justify the cost. Never mind that is their right to do as they please and good luck to them - although I do understand that the gnomes only fish after dark as they are shy- which may account for why you don't often see them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainbow-Chasers Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 Sorry Rainbow-chasers but this is largely rubbish. I agree better to have a spare but if, like me, you have a small van, 3300 kg, which did not come with a spare and has no room to fit one where do you suggest I carry the spare and a trolley jack. If the rescue company states that they will sort me out if I get a puncture they are contracted to do just that, size of van makes no differance, they know the size when they take the contract on. If they damage the van they pay, if I need to stay in a hotel fine, they pay for that as well. I may be delayed for a day but at Least I am not risking a 3.5 ton van falling on my head as I try and change a wheel, that is even assuming you can get at the spare which on my last van I could not. If your vehicle originally came without a spare or jack from factory, then they will assist without a problem - what I am saying here is, IF it originally WAS fitted but you removed it to save weight - then they have no obligation. The contract in the recovery package states that you must have a servicable spare wheel - they do not mind coming out if for some reason, like many motorhomes, the factory base vehicle jack is unsuitable, but you have to bear in mind that a wheel change through a contractor costs anywhere up to £600 for them to change. If in your case, you have a small van, then that comes under standard recovery so you do not have a problem as long as it does not exceed 19 feet in length. Anything longer than that it needs heavy recovery due to it exceeding legal overhang on a recovery truck. Your club will pay for damage, if you can prove that it was done whilst loading - and leagally you are sat in the cab whilst loading takes place for road safety - so how are you going to prove anything? There are circumstances like being in a dangerous position where damage to secure road safety or life is acceptable. I know here as I have been in the industry for years! I always carried sleepers on the truck, along with an array of smaller blocks - but i have seen many trucks with nothing on board! So it really is a gamble! I have also been in the situation where one of the big clubs told me to 'take them to a layby and leave them there, thet are in a motorhome, so they can sleep in it' - that was due to them having a trailer and the recovery club did not want to pay to have the trailer recovered! (Classes as second vehicle so doubles the cost) It just pays to be aware! In your situation you are ok if you have a small van, without a factory fitted spare - but if you remove it you are deemed liable as putting yourself in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 So if Fiat normally supply a vehicle in standard trim with a spare wheel and jack, but the converter elects to buy his base vehicles without a spare wheel and jack, where does that leave the unfortunate owner should he get a puncture that the gunge will not cope with and no spare wheel or jack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 My wife has told me to advise the ladies reading this to leave your jack at home and take the nice stud from down the road instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted May 14, 2009 Share Posted May 14, 2009 why do we carry a jack, me ansums? why do i carry alice i often ask my biddies? f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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