aljen Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Can someone confirm if i am correct reading the axle plates 1st Figure is 4000kgs 2nd Figure is 5200kgs 3rd Figure is 1850kgs front axle 4th Figure is 2300kgs rear axle Does that mean i have approx 1050kgs as payload? I have just bought a Brian James Trailer AM-T-090, my license allows for C1E so i assume i am ok for driving this, unless someone says otherwise Any help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 This post totaly confuses me, are you asking what wieght trailer you can tow, or payload of vehicle, or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Colin I am assuming he is asking both or a bit confused... No....... these figures dont mean a lot unless you weigh your van, as one essential weight is missing? the actual weight of your van? You really need to know the weight of your van in running order, with a visit to a weighbridge to see what spare capacity you have. This is with gas/water/fuel and a driver. then you take this weight figure away from your 4000kg figure and that is your payload :-D The 5200kg figure is your all up weight.....So you can pull a trailer and car with a max of 1200kg. Not much for a car traler combo There is a good long thread on payloads running at the moment. I cant help wity license, someone will be along soon:-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljen Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 hi colin sorry about the confusion, i am checking as to the payload firstly, was on my mind to visit a weighbridge soon, was just enquiring about the figures shown. the other question was regarding the towing of the trailer and the combined weight and would i be legal when using the trailer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 The 1st figure looks like your max permissable weight for the vehicle load. 4000kg. The 2nd is your all up max weight, vehcile + trailer. 2nd and 3rd are the max axke weights permissable which is normal to be higher when added together than the vehicle all up max. This is because your load distrubution may not be even between the axles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wooly Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 Hi Brambles is correct, First figure is max vehicle weight, second figure vehicle + trailer, Other figures maximum individual axle weights. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljen Posted May 16, 2009 Author Share Posted May 16, 2009 Thanks Brambles I have just looked below the bonnet, another plate there from Alko and it is stamped 4000 - 5500 - 1850 - 2300. Why would these figures differ?. Think i will be visiting the weighbridge soon just to check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky 8 Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 aljen - 2009-05-16 2:26 PM Thanks Brambles I have just looked below the bonnet, another plate there from Alko and it is stamped 4000 - 5500 - 1850 - 2300. Why would these figures differ?. Think i will be visiting the weighbridge soon just to check Hi aljen,I recently contacted Sv Tech about the weights displayed on the side of my Burstner motorhome, for towing purposes and this was the reply I received , but have since found another Fiat plate under the bonnet qualifying the weights I needed . hope its of some help. Thank you for your email. The weights you have provided from the Chassis plate are correct. Axle 1 - 2100 kg Axle 2 - 2400 kg Gross vehicle weight - 3500kg - maximum laden weight of vehicle Gross train weight - 5200kg -maximum combined weight of vehicle with trailer. Albeit the summation of weights add up to more 3500kg, this difference is known as "loading tolerance". On most light vehicles the summation of weights will add up to more than the gross weight. This tolerance is there to allow the operator to biased weight over the vehicle and gives more variation in the loading. When we uprate a vehicle we usually look to the summation of weights as being the weight we test at. Going above the summation can mean having to make physical changes to the suspension or braking system. The Fiat Plate under the bonnet reads. 5200 4000 1 2100kg 2 2400kg V5 states 4000kg so providing I keep my loaded M/H under the 4000 kg I can tow a trailer of up to1200 kgs =5200 Train weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 aljen - 2009-05-16 2:26 PM Thanks Brambles I have just looked below the bonnet, another plate there from Alko and it is stamped 4000 - 5500 - 1850 - 2300. Why would these figures differ?. Think i will be visiting the weighbridge soon just to check The motorhome convertor using the Alko chassis has upgraded your gross train weight (vehicle + trailer) to a higher figure and attached a new plate to reflect this upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 aljen These are links to websites that may be helpful: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022564 Your Elegance 681 is a 3-piece jigsaw made from Fiat, Al-Ko and Burstner parts. Being a 2005 model, it very probably will have European Whole Vehicle Type Approval (EWVTA) where the motorhome converter confirms that the completed vehicle complies with all the appropriate regulations. So, if it is evident that the data-plate with the 5200kg Gross Train Weight figure has been provided by Burstner, then I'm pretty confident that the information on that plate will override any other data-plates attached to the vehicle. There's usually information on maximum towing weights in motorhome handbooks, but, if there's nothing in yours, it might be wise to ask Burstner for advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybvi Posted May 16, 2009 Share Posted May 16, 2009 For what it's worth I have aBurstner Elegance 681 with exactly the same weights as you quote (including the underbonnet panel which is superceded by the Burstner weight plate) and the explanations above are completely correct. I also tow a Smartie on a BJ trailer and visit the weighbridge regularly as when I have 2 bikes on the rack as well as the trailer I am dangerously close to the 2300kg rear axle limit, although well within all the other limits. Fully loaded with bikes on rack and Smartie on trailer I cannot travel with any grey water and less than half a tank of fresh water. I also make sure that the Smartie is not right at the front of the trailer as this puts extra load on the towball whcih is magnified on the rear axle due to the large overhang of the 681. I recently contacted SVTech to see if I could get the rear axle load limit increased. They know this vehicle and cannot themselves uprate the loading but they suggested I contact AlKo as the new Fiat Elegance has a 2400kg rear axle limit. They do not believe this can be applied to the older vehicles (mine is late 2005) but suggested I check - I haven't got around to doing this yet. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljen Posted May 17, 2009 Author Share Posted May 17, 2009 Thanks guys looks like a trip is needed to check things out. we travel reasonably light with just the 2 of us and the muttley, but i will load the van up as usual, maybe with out the fresh water, which i can work the weight out for and hook on the trailer and car and see how things look then Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 tonybvi If you did manage to get your Burstner's rear axle maximum weight limit augmented, I believe you'd also need to fit uprated tyres as the vehicle's current 2300kg is likely to be at the top limit of the original equipment ones. Pre-X250 Fiat 'maxi' chassis normally had 215/75 R16C tyres with a load index of 113 (1150kg). Current Fiat X250 'heavy' chassis - with 2400kg rear-axle limit - use 225/75 R16C tyres with a load index of 116 (1250kg) to handle the increased loading. There are plenty of 215/75 R16C tyres available with a load index above 113, but it would still be a costly exercise to swap to them. (You may well be aware of this, but it's probably worth mentioning just in case other motorcaravanners are contemplating increasing their motorhomes' load-carrying capacity.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljen Posted May 18, 2009 Author Share Posted May 18, 2009 Hi Derek Thanks for your words of warning, another thing to look at. In fact i looked at the tyres at the weekend, just to check on condition, etc, noticed they were stamped 04, so they must be the originals and possibly due to be replaced soon. Will look at the index loading and consider upgrading when replacing the tyres Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybvi Posted May 18, 2009 Share Posted May 18, 2009 Derek Thanks for the warning. In fact I was not aware of the tyre rating issue until I filled in the form for SVTech to answer my query. Not surprisingly one of the questions they ask is what is the load rating and my tyres are 1150kg. It is mainly because of this that I haven't yet bothered to go any further - rather than go to the expense of new tyres I can cope with a bit of careful weight management!! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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