1st gear in a Ford is it me?

[duetto owner]

Well pleased with our new ford duetto, but have one niggle I keep stalling on pulling away in first gear at lights even more on a incline.

 

At first thought it was me not used to driving a new vehicle, but now a couple of weeks on still get the occasional stall unless a bit heavy on the revs.

 

Has anyone else found this with transits or is it just taking me a while to adjust.

[Guest peter]

It's not you. Fords have the same problem as Fiat X250. But with 1st gear instead of reverse.

[emmbeedee]

I've seen reference to this a few times now, but mine is quite easy to take off with. Just got back from 2000+ miles to Orkney, plenty of hills, no problem. It will take off on tickover easily, even on a slight incline. In fact you have to watch out if taking off up a steep hill as too many revs leaves you scrabbling for grip. On the road, once travelling, it tackled almost all the hills we encountered in 3rd gear (5 speed box).

Is yours a front wheel drive BTW?

I have seen something about a software update to cure the problem, but have had nothing like that done to mine since buying it last November.

According to the info. I have, mine was built on 04/03/08 in Otosan, Turkey. 2.2 litre, 110 bhp, (Puma engine), VXT75 5 speed manual transmission, 4.54 axle ratio. I don't know whether there are different gear ratios available for these FWD Transits, if so this may be part of the problem, if yours is geared higher than mine.

Incidentally, my habitation was built in Italy in May 2008, so it didn't hang around too long. I've seen stories about base vehicles being left for many months or even years before the body is fitted. Is yours one of these & needs a software update?

Maybe a visit to your local friendly Ford dealer will answer that.

[Bazza454]

duetto owner - 2009-05-26 12:53 PM Well pleased with our new ford duetto, but have one niggle I keep stalling on pulling away in first gear at lights even more on a incline. At first thought it was me not used to driving a new vehicle, but now a couple of weeks on still get the occasional stall unless a bit heavy on the revs. Has anyone else found this with transits or is it just taking me a while to adjust.

David,

I've had a 6 speed FWD Transit for 18 months and all I can say is - persevere, it does get easier.

For the first couple of months I was very wary when pulling away at roundabouts but now it's not a problem, haven't stalled it for at least 6 months..... 

[Derek Uzzell]

Duetto Owner

 

There was a longish earlier forum thread about this. See

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10091&start=1

 

Although some Year 2000-onwards Transit models do have (as Peter says) a high 1st gear ratio (and, if my one instantly-aborted experiment reversing up a very steep slope is anything to go by, a pretty high reverse-gear ratio too), other versions have much lower bottom gears. MBD's Auto-Roller, Brian Kirby's and my Hobby motorhomes all have the same gearing, with a 4.54 final-drive ratio - the lowest one available for FWD Transits with 5-speed gearboxes. RWD Transits (like your Duetto) have different gearing and at least 3 different final-drive ratios. (I've no idea what ratio Auto-Sleepers specifies for Duetto.)

 

However, irrespective of their gear ratios and/or which axle does the driving, they generally seem to exhibit a proneness-to-stalling characteristic - and the higher the gearing the more difficult it will be to circumvent this. It's not that they are absolute pigs to get off the line cleanly, just that they tend to be harder to start reliably, time after time, without provoking a stall when you least want it to happen. I consider this characteristic an entertaining coordinational challenge when I'm feeling benevolent and an F-ing menace when I'm at 90 degrees to approaching traffic with a dead engine!

 

Anyway, you can at least take some comfort that you are not alone.

 

(By the way, the "Killing the engine to prevent it running backwards" idea that was mentioned in the earlier thread is a non-starter. I asked a trustworthy Transit guru about it and he told me that the design of a modern Transit motor makes backwards-running impossible. I did relay this information (in much greater detail) to Brian Kirby and Dave Newell.)

[nowtelse2do]

If it,s new ,take it back to your dealer and explain the problem. If it,s not new, do as emmbeedee suggest,s.

 

Another Duetto owner mine is automatic 15yrs old, 150,000 miles, still take it all over Europe and it will reverse up any gradient except the Matterhorn

 

Dave :-D

[duetto owner]

Thanks everyone for helping with advice.

 

its a RWD 6 gear, wanted to get advice before going back to the dealer did not want to look a fool with poor clutch control.

 

Reverse gear is OK my drive has a slight incline no problems with that. Also steep hills are taken in its stride as if driving a car providing I do not stop.

 

its more traffic lights, roundabouts and traffic jams on a incline. I always pull away gently not the boy racer type but finding I have to be a little heavy on the revs more than what I am used too to avoid stalling.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Recent Transit DuraTorq motors appear to have a power-curve more like a traditional competition petrol engine than a diesel, with very limited torque at tickover speed. All other diesel-fuelled vehicles I've driven have allowed a progressive increase in power right from tickover and, even if one let in the clutch slightly too sharply, always allowed a 2nd chance rather than just stall.

 

The Transit forum expert told me that, before letting in the clutch, he blipped the throttle to spin up the turbocharger. I said that I did too, but I didn't see why I should need to with a delivery van and, if I wanted a challenging non-linear power delivery I'd drive a 1970s Porsche Turbo. He suggested that, for a real yawn-inducing lag in throttle response, I should try a current petrol-engined Transit.

 

I don't think there is any 'cure' as such, or at least not for the 2.4litre motors. It's intriguing that the 2.2 litre Ford-built power-plants used in current Ducatos, Boxers and Relays apparently are more docile than the versions in Transits, as I've never read any criticisms of stall-proneness in Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen motorhome tests, whereas most reports on recent Transit-based motorcaravans have mentioned this. I've sometimes wondered if an after-market tuning product might help, but I can't really see why it should and I'm not going to fit one to my motorhome to find out.

 

I expect Transit White-Van Man becomes habituated to the need to use an extra dollop of revs to ensure a clean start on every occasion, but I normally drive vehicles that don't require that technique and, when I drive my motorhome, I don't always remember to keep the revs up when moving off, with totally predictable consequences.

 

(When the 137PS 2.4litre engine was introduced into the Transit range, I read in a French motorhome magazine that this motor was electronically 'governed' in 1st and 2nd gears to restrict the amount of torque it produced and thus protect the transmission. Even if true, I doubt it would have any effect on response at tickover speed - I just mention it in passing and in case drivers of Transit-based motorhomes with that engine feel that they accelerate very well in the higher gears, but are a mite less rocket-like in the lower two ratios.)

[Mel B]

Its just the way they are. Ours is the same - our motorhome is nearly 24 ft long (twin RWD transit) and on rare occasion it stalls when trying to pull away in first gear but this is usually only when we haven't driven it for quite a while and forgotten how it likes it! We soon get back to having the 'knack' and don't suffer any problems with it. At least it doesn't try to shake itself to bits going forwards. And unlike some Fiats, reverse is fine too.

 

You've only had the van a couple of weeks so you need to give yourself time to 'attune' to the needs of your new baby! :D

 

Add to this, the chances are that you could inadvertently make the problem worse - when the occasion arises that you need to pull away in traffic you are likely to be tensing up in anticipation of it happening and therefore this can make the situation worse ... I find if I just relax and get on with it, I rarely stall it, if at all.

[colin]

Not the same vehicle I know, but my Suzi can be a bugger to pull away if taking it easy, often I find I have to dip the clutch to stop it stalling, I'm not 100% convinced in my case it's the ratio, I'm inclined to think it's more to do with a poor position of 'bite' for clutch and a badly programmed ECU, it's actualy a relief to drive an X250 or even the Astra and realise I've not 'lost it'.

[duetto owner]

Thanks again for the replies I now know its not me and giving a bit of extra welly in first is expected.

[spospe]

We had a 1999 Duetto with the 2.5 DI engine and that would pull-away easily on level-ish ground without the use of throttle at all. The first time I drove the new Duetto with the 140 ps engine, I stalled it due to me using the same technique as for the old model. 12,000 miles later, no problem.

 

It gets easier with time for two simple reasons, 1) the vehicle gets 'run-in' and hence operates better than when brand-new and 2) the driver gets used to the operating characteristics.

 

There are software updates for the engine management system and if you really are having a problem, go and speak to your local Ford main agent and see if they have anything that could help.

 

[George Collings]

I ocassionally stall my VW LT and and like most of the other vehicles mentioned it has a dual mass flywheel ( No complaints about the solid flywheel equipped pre 2006 Boxer/Ducato range) and perhaps bounce in that unit is one of the factors involved.

 

The whole driveline winds up and acts as a complex spring bouncing shock waves in both directions. These should be self damping but if a pulse arrives back at the crankshaft just as the ECU reduces fuel delivery it might well stop the engine. Newness makes its worse as the motor stops more quickly. The engine freeing up and the driver adapting his techniqe could well explain improvement as mileage mounts.

 

[trooper]

A bit of subject, but we have just bought a Ford KUGA with a TDCI 2 L

diesel engine, When you let the clutch out on this there is a slight increase in engine revs/power and it pulls away better than any modern diesel I have driven. If it can be done on a Kuga it can be done on any ford diesel motor.

[Slim]

We have a 2008 Autosleeper Peugeot Symbol. This has the 2.2 ltr FORD engine with six speed box.

When It was new, it kept stalling with a bang as the engine stopped dead.

After 3000 miles, it loosened up and I got used to giving it a little extra revs to start off both forward and reverse.

I took it in to the Peugeot dealer after the first year to do the recommended safety check (£50) and register it with Peugeot. They offered a software download to give extra power at low revs (the mod to help cure the reverse judder). Result, transformed, I can now pull away without revving the motor and reversing is much improved with only the slightest of judder at very low revs and consequently, no clutch spinning.

As it's a FORD motor, I would hope Ford could do similar to the Transit.

Bob

 

 

[George Collings]

It sounds like the Boxer had a fueling problem and its the ECU that needs training not the driver.

[Guest JudgeMental]

No its not you............and you get used to it.

 

Just back from a week in the Loire and I dont think I stalled once (have had van 2 years) Have said this before, if you were driving these every day for a living you would not be caught out as you would be used to it. It could be a lot worse and you could have the worry and insecurity that Fiat ownership seems to deliver.

[Brian Kirby]

Three things make life difficult. 1 the accelerator pedal is too abrupt for good control at low engine speeds.  2 the dual mass flywheel has a somewhat abrupt take up that is difficult to control.  3 there is an electronic cut-off that shuts down the engine if the revs drop below (I'm told) 600 rpm.  Put all three together and stalls are inevitable.  However, what seems to work best is to dip the clutch quickly as soon as you sense the revs are dropping, rather than trying to get more power via the accelerator.  Taking the load off the engine momentarily when it struggles allows it to recover, whereas asking it for more power involves too much system delay to prevent the "stall".

[duetto owner]

brian

 

thanks for that info