Big Momma Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Take your point on the 'Gas' but the tyres - surely picked up on service and MOT (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 What MOT. It was perfect when I bought it 5 Yrs ago. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted June 4, 2009 Author Share Posted June 4, 2009 Aah, that common sense :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyTom Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 BGD - 2009-06-04 12:52 AM This may help a lot of people: Common Law of Contract Performance under English law: If you have a genuine reason not to be happy with the work from any supplier of goods or services, simply don't pay, or pay what you honestly feel is a reasoble proportion only. (One way of doing this is to pay by cheque, and then if unhappy once you've checked the MH over back at home, cancel the cheque/send them another for the reduced amount with a covering letter). If the supplier whines, invite them to take out a case in the County Court for the balance of their invoice; then a Judge will decide what was a reasonable fee for the degree of Performance (or non-Performance) under the contract between you. And send/get everything in writing of course...... Great fun! This advice may be acceptable in the writer’s barracks but in the real world it is extremely bad advice’ Here’s some advice from a real lawyer. The simple fact is, that in English law, there is absolutely no defence against a stopped cheque. When you issue a cheque you give a promise to pay. The fact that it’s a cheque is no different from a bundle of cash. If you cancel a cheque and the dealer sues you in the County Court, a district judge will not even consider any argument about the workmanship on your ‘van etc. as it’s irrelevant. The only matter that concerns him is that you made a binding promise to pay when you issued the cheque and that you have abrogated your responsibility. There’s also a practical problem in that a bank will charge both the issuer and the issued, a charge for cancelling a cheque and both of you will end up out of pocket before anything is addressed.The correct procedure if you suspect that there is something wrong with work done on a motorhome for example is to inform the dealer that you’re not happy and ask him to correct the faults. If you cannot agree with him that there is a problem you should inform him that, in order for him to release your ‘van, you are paying him under protest and that it is your intention to sue him in the County Court after you have obtained a third-party opinion on the efficacy of his work. To be sure of your facts it will help if you have evidence that the work is sub-standard but, if you’re so confident that you are right and he is wrong, you should have no worries about paying for an expert opinion as, when it comes to court, you will recoup all your costs. There’s also a moral issue here, which a court will take into account should you resort to litigation. The dealer may not have done the job he was contracted to, which is a breach of contract on his part, but you have been equally, if not more dishonourable in issuing a cheque and then deliberately cancelling it when you’ve retrieved your ‘van. You are then, in effect, blackmailing the dealer by threatening to withhold the payment that you have previously agreed to make. This would not sit well with a district judge and would show you in even worse light than the dealer. I also suspect that most dealers these days will not take a cheque of greater value than the accompanying bank guarantee card. In fact many large retailers will no longer accept cheques for any amount because of the problems surrounding them. When you think about it, why would anyone pay by cheque these days when they have a debit card? The main reason why people still use a cheque is because the debit card wouldn’t clear and they hope that, by the time the cheques has gone through, their salary will have gone into their account. I do accept however that there are a few people, usually old folk, who still like to write cheques because of reasons that are beyond me but obviously have some resonance with them. I have to say that the action recommended by BGD is one of the reasons why retailers will no longer take cheques – and who can blame them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Big Momma - 2009-06-04 9:04 PM Take your point on the 'Gas' but the tyres - surely picked up on service and MOT (?) Well you'd think the cracked tyres would be spotted when the owner checks tyre pressures wouldn't you? And you might expect the poor state of gas hoses to be spotted when the owner is turning the cylinder on or off wouldn't you? Common sense? Explain this concept please ;-) . D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 There is a long thread developing over on MHF discussing if Brownills are in dire financial trouble once again...........be careful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 JudgeMental - 2009-06-05 11:56 AM There is a long thread developing over on MHF discussing if Brownills are in dire financial trouble once again...........be careful! sometimes, rumours start and end up causing damage to an otherwise sound company. I'm not implying they are safe or have problems, but a self perpetuating cycle can occur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 messerschmitt owner - 2009-06-05 12:11 PM JudgeMental - 2009-06-05 11:56 AM There is a long thread developing over on MHF discussing if Brownills are in dire financial trouble once again...........be careful! sometimes, rumours start and end up causing damage to an otherwise sound company. I'm not implying they are safe or have problems, but a self perpetuating cycle can occur Yes well.......sound? when they restructured, they allegedley left many high and dry without warranty cover etc.... I would personally NEVER go near them for anything *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 messerschmitt owner - 2009-06-05 12:11 PM JudgeMental - 2009-06-05 11:56 AM There is a long thread developing over on MHF discussing if Brownills are in dire financial trouble once again...........be careful! sometimes, rumours start and end up causing damage to an otherwise sound company. I'm not implying they are safe or have problems, but a self perpetuating cycle can occur Agreed. But very rarely. In the vast majority of cases, rumours of a Company not being financially start because the Company in question is not financially sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 whatever! What do I care anyway! After all, I've visited Newark and Swindon but never bought anything from them and next motorhome I buy won't be for five years or so and it'll be secondhand anyway! The erosion of choice of dealers to buy from isn't good, and I can see a declining market for motorhomes as a result. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Discuss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 davenewell@home - 2009-06-05 6:50 AM Big Momma - 2009-06-04 9:04 PM Take your point on the 'Gas' but the tyres - surely picked up on service and MOT (?) Well you'd think the cracked tyres would be spotted when the owner checks tyre pressures wouldn't you? And you might expect the poor state of gas hoses to be spotted when the owner is turning the cylinder on or off wouldn't you? Common sense? Explain this concept please ;-) . D.If you normally use glasses for reading you will not notice cracks in tyres. I found that out last year , I normally don't wear them outside. But I was checking the pressures and can't see the guage without them. Imagine my surprise to see that I'd been driving around with cracked tyres since I bought it 1Yr previously. Moral:- always wear your glasses if doing any checks on your Van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbeam Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 well i buy a new motorhome every other year and sadly from B/H this year but it wont mater to me if they are still going in two years i wont be in thier doors again so lets hope the ones that are left learn and have a good service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fud3 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 I did buy mine from Brownhills, I have a letter from them today reminding me that the service and habitaion check is overdue, so as of the 3rd when the letter was dated they were still in business. I have dropped them a line to let them know that I have had the van serviced by the local fiat dealership and the habitation check doen by another Swift approved inspector for the habitation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 fud3 - 2009-06-05 5:26 PM I did buy mine from Brownhills, I have a letter from them today reminding me that the service and habitaion check is overdue, so as of the 3rd when the letter was dated they were still in business. I have dropped them a line to let them know that I have had the van serviced by the local fiat dealership and the habitation check doen by another Swift approved inspector for the habitation! They wount like that thats what I did so they refused any future warranty cover on my motorhome not a problem their loss not mine I would not go there to have my tyre pressures checked let alone anything else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertandjean Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Really do think Brownhills get a bad press without always due cause. We have bought seven new vans from them, the last two weeks ago, and always found they give a better deal than anyone else. Yes getting things sorted through service can be difficult at times, but better than other dealers we have had dealings with, and due mainly to problems with suppliers. Indeed we have found the service team always do their best and in the end things always get sorted. Also what other dealers provide the facilities Brownhills do, like free overnight stays, refresments at all shows, free xmas lunch etc. Regarding rumours of financial troubles, just got cheque from them, cahback as part of deal on new van, which has cleared our account, so no hint here of trouble. Can not understand why so many are keen to see demise of Brownhills it will mean less competition which always results in poorer deals for us customers. I wish them well. Robert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 robertandjean - 2009-06-05 7:47 PM Also what other dealers provide the facilities Brownhills do, like free overnight stays, refresments at all shows, free xmas lunch etc. I wish them well. Robert. There is no such thing as a free lunch! I wish them - or rather all the employees - well too - but I still would not buy a van from them under the current management. I believe that the loss of such a competitive price dealer would harm us all financially in the longer term - but not harm us maybe quite so much stress wise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 peter - 2009-06-05 3:44 PM davenewell@home - 2009-06-05 6:50 AM Big Momma - 2009-06-04 9:04 PM Take your point on the 'Gas' but the tyres - surely picked up on service and MOT (?) Well you'd think the cracked tyres would be spotted when the owner checks tyre pressures wouldn't you? And you might expect the poor state of gas hoses to be spotted when the owner is turning the cylinder on or off wouldn't you? Common sense? Explain this concept please ;-) . D.If you normally use glasses for reading you will not notice cracks in tyres. I found that out last year , I normally don't wear them outside. But I was checking the pressures and can't see the guage without them. Imagine my surprise to see that I'd been driving around with cracked tyres since I bought it 1Yr previously. Moral:- always wear your glasses if doing any checks on your Van. Peter, I use reading glasses and these days they're almost continually on for work. surely if you need glasses to read then you'll need them to read the tyre pressure gauge? and therefore see the condition of the tyres? Had a motorhome in today for MOT and servicing, failed the MOT on rear tyres sidewalls cracking, all five tyres are the same age within a few weeks at 2001 vintage on a 2003 registered vehicle. Front tyres were also showing signs of cracking but only gained an advisory from the MOT. Customer wisely (IMHO) took my advice to have all five tyres replaced, not a cheap option at £130 a tyre but better than a blowout on the motorway! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbeam Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 well Robert if you would have got your van the way I got mine. I have worked as a service managar for a very large Ford dealer and never have i put even the smallest of the range out with faults that had been listed not repaired as this was a new van it shouldnt even have been on show with faults and I am not just talking one or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Tyre cracks and crazes are easier to see when the tyre is under compression such as when parked on a hill or a steeply cambered road or if you drive it up onto a brick or partly onto a kerb or summat similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 And preferably in reverse on a hill for the X250, it'll get plenty iof stress then. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 robertandjean - 2009-06-05 7:47 PM Can not understand why so many are keen to see demise of Brownhills it will mean less competition which always results in poorer deals for us customers. I wish them well. Robert. Robert, I am one of the last to wish to see their demise, they are located a mere 5mins drive away from my house, what a convenience especially as I could leave the van with them and return home until the service/work was completed. Now I have to drive much further and need to stay near the garage as their is no easy or cost effective way of getting back home. Although on hindsight as I am saving £30-£40 an hour on labour charges perhaps I could afford to get a taxi and I know that when I return the work has been completed, unlike recent experiences with 'Downhills' (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanderer Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Are Brownhills really that worse then some other dealers out there? We were looking for a S/H van conversion last year and at the time they were in quite short supply. Some dealers did not bother to get back to my enquiry but Brownhills were very pleasant and helpful and I bought one from them at a very good price without hassle. Soon after I bought they had their finacial hiccup and we were waiting for a part under warrenty (from them, not the insurance warrenty) and we were informed that all warrenties would be honored and they did come up with the goods. I will say that their aftersales service could have been a lot better and slicker but it did get there. I would not rule them out if I ever change vans again but would not use their service side because of distance and from past experince of the hassle of them not being overly efficient in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 We all slag brownhills of but its the people that work for them who should be getting it they tell the lies they do the work on your mh . Like the last take over I was at newark and some that should have went are still there but with a change of job amazing and those that have left just end up at another dealers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 We bought 2 new vans from Brownhills in the past and we got very good deals indeed, but that was with the 'old' firm. The two sales people, one male, one female, have now moved to other dealerships and I'd be more than happy to do business with either of them at their new places any time. We often bump into the chap at shows and have a nice little natter and catch up with how things are going etc. A former after sales service manager (old firm) eventually left after, as I understand it, not being able to sort out the many problems that were there, despite his very best efforts, not sure where he went though but such a shame as he was genuinely trying to get things sorted. As for those that are still at Brownhills, as I don't know them I can't really say what they are, or what the place is, like now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.