Buying and warranty

[Aliton]

We are new motorhomes ( or will be in July) and have just put down a deposit on a new motorhome German built to high quality. I am reading all the reviews about issues with warranty repairs. Last thing we want to have to do is to return to the manuafacturer to have service and repairs as this is going to be a non starter. Can any of you experianced motohomers advise what we should do to ensure we dont have issues. We looked about for two years and the dealer gave names of companies that support our model/brand FENDT but we are finding that they dont ( even though the manufartures web site highlights them as authorised dealers. ) Should we proceed ?? Ps we love the model and layout but as this moment we feel uncomfortable.

[Guest JudgeMental]

welcome!

 

There are a lot of us who import LHD vans on here, most stick to the main brands, Hymer, Hobby, EuroMobil, Dethleff, Knaus etc.....for obvious reasons really.

 

I choose a dealer in Belgium, he is great to deal with and 1.40 hrs from Calais. There where a few issues in first year, I think there will always be with a new van. We would then visit for a fix when passing through on holiday. For instance, I am going there for a habitation check on our way to Italy in about 4 weeks.

 

Your situation is problematic IMO and you are right to be concerned if you are unwilling to return the van to the dealer....where are you buying it from? Is is on a Fiat chassis?

 

I am not sure how others on here deal with warranty issues with imported vans, hopefully some will be along soon :-D

 

I would stick to the main brands that have warranty repair relationships in place in the UK if that is important to you.

 

 

[BGD]

Just a thought, but have you considered "nearly new" second hand as an alternative?

 

There are an awful lot of such MH's around now (maybe 1 year old, 5,000 miles, one previous owner etc), and the savings against a new one seem very substantial indeed.

 

Hopefully any teething troubles on a such a vehicle would have already been sorted, and it may also have been fitted with some/ a lot of extras by the first owner too.

 

Maybe worth a look on ebay, or dealers websites, in UK and/or Belgium/Germany perhaps.

 

[Aliton]

Thanks for that feedback . Its on a new Ford Transit 140BHP 2.2 diesel as per the Hobby van. I was wondering if Ford Transit ie commercial dealers might do the service for the "vehicle engine side" and than I could ask for guarantees that the Imported would support any other issues with the living space. They are based in Yorkshire which is 100 miles away. These motorhomes are priced ( £10k below rec price) but I dont want to have to shell-out for any repairs as this defeats the object . Thanks anyway.

[longtemps]

The problem you will have is getting dealers, other than the one you have bought it off, to do your warranty work. Of course the dealer you bought from will say there is lots of other support, they would wouldn't they. The reality is quite different unfortunately, and some dealers are much more reluctant to put themselves out or put pressure on manufacturers for spares etc. particularly if you didn't give them the profit of the sale or even worse that they are not stockists of your brand of motorhome. Sorry to give you this news but it is better you find out now rather than later. The situation is nowhere near the same as in the mainline motor industry where warranty support is available throughout the networks. Even if you by a Britsh built van from a UK based retailer it is far from certain. I bought from a major major retailer and was refused warranty work from several dealers when they found out who I had purchased from. They told me they won't do warranty work for our customers so we don't do it for theirs!! This when they were all stockists of the same brand! This poor attitude may now have changed in light of the credit cruch and a shortage of work but is certainly the experience I had. I did however eventually find one dealer in particular who was great and was happy to do anything I needed and all he required in exchange was that I allow him to exchange my plates which advertised the original dealer, so he could benefit from the free advertising. Consequently when I do change vans he will be in pole position for the sale - one good turn deserves another.

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

Aliton - 2009-06-20 4:06 PM

 

Thanks for that feedback . Its on a new Ford Transit 140BHP 2.2 diesel as per the Hobby van. I was wondering if Ford Transit ie commercial dealers might do the service for the "vehicle engine side" and than I could ask for guarantees that the Imported would support any other issues with the living space. They are based in Yorkshire which is 100 miles away. These motorhomes are priced ( £10k below rec price) but I don't want to have to shell-out for any repairs as this defeats the object . Thanks anyway.

 

Who pays the recommended price....discounts of 18% are not uncommon in Germany/Belgium. That it is a Ford based van is good......You just take it for servicing to your local Ford commercial dealer, that is what everyone does?

 

Have the speedo and lights been changed? and a UK fog light fitted? Is it already UK registered for you? You will find that the warranty will be a 2 year European one whereas UK supplied campers are normally 3.

 

The Yorkshire dealer: are they an "official" importer? If the answer is yes what are you worried about? you will have to return yearly for habitation check etc...to keep the converter/motorhome side of warranty active.....

 

If you are importing via a 3rd party importer you would be better of asking on here for others experience of doing this with that named company? then you would get a reasonable idea of their service and more importantly their after sales service *-)

 

You can see from Longtemps reply above the sad state of warranty repairs in the UK. this is why I am more then happy to make the occasional journey to get proper service and support.......

 

 

[colin]

Are you buying one of the discounted one's as for sale at Peterborough?

Is that why dealer(seller) is 100 miles away, if so is it realy a problem?

p.s. for those unaware there is a batch of 20 odd Fendt's being sold off in UK with approx £10,000 discount.

[Aliton]

If we are able to take it to a Ford Commercial Dealer who recogises the warranty then thats half the battle ..thanks for that. Its also a RDH model as well . We just need to agree the replacement warranty proceedure for the living quarters kit and equipment. As the importer is not an official dealer Ill make sure its written into any agreement. Thanks to all.

[Guest JudgeMental]

colin - 2009-06-20 9:06 PM

 

Are you buying one of the discounted one's as for sale at Peterborough?

Is that why dealer(seller) is 100 miles away, if so is it realy a problem?

p.s. for those unaware there is a batch of 20 odd Fendt's being sold off in UK with approx £10,000 discount.

 

Hmm.......Just Googled FENDT and it seems they are a sister company to Hobby. While Hobby are a good van they are at times not without fault and various warranty issues seem to be reported over on MHF. If you need to visit the Hobby factory it is a Loooong way away I believe *-)

[Brian Kirby]

I missed this one at the time it was posted.  The vehicle you are looking at is, essentially, a clone of the one we have.  The mechanicals (servicing, and any warranty work affecting the Ford manufactured elements) will be dealt with in the usual way by a Ford dealership.

The habitation part will be where the fun starts.  Most of the installed components (toilet, fridge, heater, hob, possible oven, mains consumer unit, charger, battery etc) will mostly have their individual manufacturer's warranties that should pass to you as owner, usually covering 12 months from first registration.  As most of these items are relatively reliable, and the main manufacturers (I assume Thetford, Truma, CBE and Dometic) are reputable and run their own customer services departments, the risk of failure seems relatively small.  If you are prepared to look on the saving in costs to buy as a "wad for your back pocket" rather than a net gain "in the bag", your exposure on these items should be bearable.  The furniture and bodyshell should not present great risks, although some installation practises can make certain elements, such as wiring and sundry pipework very difficult to access if need arises.  However, this is common to most motorhomes and such items are either duff from the outset, or work as intended until warranties of whatever nature have (generally long) expired.

That leaves the little matter of the (presumed) 5/6 years water ingress warranty.  This is the major potential pitfall should the bodyshell leak.  I am assuming that the Fendt warranty mirrors the Hobby one, which states that annual inspections must be carried out by an authorised dealer if the manufacturer's warranty is to be honoured.  Once sold, the vehicle should be entered onto a database at the factory, and a record of every inspection is then supposed to be supplied back to the factory proving the inspection has been carried out, and any necessary remedial work properly completed.  (Our van (imported) has suffered from some duff workmanship resulting in leakage, since rectified, and is due its second damp check in Germany this September.  Hobby/Fendt workmanship and design is not perfect, thought it is generally quite good.)

Your problem is likely to be that the seller is not an authorised Fendt dealer, and cannot therefore maintain the warranty on Fendt's recording system.  Should a major problem arise, and the seller have disappeared, you will be left with a void warranty, and the need to get the problem fixed at your own cost.  If you are satisfied you are saving a genuine £10,000 on the purchase price, it would seem the risk of major and presently undetected leakage would be minor, and the van is probably worth the asking price.  For information the Hobby/Fendt factory is at Fockbeck, not far from Keil, a few miles South of the Danish border.

[Derek Uzzell]

Aliton

 

I believe Wellhouse Leisure (WL) advertised that they had acquired 40 right-hand drive Fendt K-series motorhomes that were a "cancelled order". It would be interesting to know the background to this transaction as I would have thought this quantity of vehicles represented a complete year's output of Fendt motorhomes that were (presumably) initially destined for the UK market. Perhaps 'old' Brownhills were involved originally, as, with an overall cost of around £1000,000 being needed to buy the motorhomes from the German manufacturer, it's the only UK dealership I can think of that might have had that sort of bulk-buying capability.

 

As Brian advises, warranty issues for the Ford Transit element of a WL-purchased Fendt should not present problems provided that the UK date of retail sale is correctly recorded on Ford's database. Normal servicing within the (3 years) warranty period can be carried out by a Ford agent or by any competent garage as long as Ford's warranty terms and conditions are adhered to.

 

You really need to press Wellhouse Leisure hard over the Fendt conversion warranty. As the vehicles are being marketed unofficially via a roundabout route, it's quite possible that the Fendt factory won't recognise the validity of the conversion warranty. There is sufficient evidence of problems with conversion-warranty claims relating to Hobby motorhomes to suggest that the German manufacturer takes a very tough line at the best of times, never mind when their vehicles are (apparently) being sold through an unapproved UK dealership.

[mike 202]

In addition to the above, I discussed the purchase of an Ace from a local dealer and asked if they would go close to a discount offered by a dealer some miles from my home town.

They said no to matching the discount and issued the threat that if I did not purchase from them then don't even bother to ask them to do any warranty work even though they were an Ace Franchised dealer. Needless to say I purchased a Swift product from another dealer close to my home.

So buying away from home may give a better discount, but be prepared to travel and spend money on diesel, hotels and time.

Judge has of course made such a decision and is happy. Just depends on how you feel and the course of action that you should take.

Good luck and happy Motorhome Travels

Mike

[Guest JudgeMental]

These Fendt vans are even being advertised in right hand drive spec over on the German site www.mobile.de

 

Price for a K500 is advertised at 42.999 Euro approx £36.400

 

That is before a discount (10%-18% should be attainable) and knock 4% of for the VAT difference........ So I would expect to pay around £30.000'ish and that is from a Fendt agent.

 

they have these extras as well:

 

De Luxe Package , bicycle rack for 3 bikes , Heating Combi 6E instead 4E, oven, 2 reading lights in the bedroom, Ford comfort package, wood dashboard, gas level indicator.

[Andy T]

Derek,

I think you'll find that the warranty on an imported vehicle is two years, not three. My Mooveo is on two years (made in France on a FIAT chassis, but sold by a British importer)

Andy.

[Guest JudgeMental]

mike 202 - 2009-06-28 11:04 AM

So buying away from home may give a better discount, but be prepared to travel and spend money on diesel, hotels and time.

Judge has of course made such a decision and is happy. Just depends on how you feel and the course of action that you should take.

Good luck and happy Motorhome Travels

Mike

 

Sorry but its all down to planning.....I thought I had explained that we time visits in with holidays. So not much cost involved. Considering we saved over 12k for a higher spec van then brownills were offering. There were a few minor things that needed attention in the first year but nothing in the last 18 months.

 

But we prefer to visit a proper dealership, that has reasonable prices in comparison to the UK, and offers excellent service generally. By example roof a/c was £900 (quoted £1500 here) yearly damp check (for 6 year warranty) 35 euro.......Plus you feel that you are being taken seriously as a customer as well..

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Andy T

 

I'm going to refer you to

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=11285&start=1

 

but you'll need to plough your way through the complete thread!

 

Simply speaking, a Ford Transit-based motorhome, bought brand-new in the UK in recent years, should come with a 3-year duration 'bumper to bumper' Ford-backed warranty beginning on the date that the motorhome is first sold. If it doesn't, then the owner of the motorhome needs to explore why this is not the case.

 

Wellhouse Leisure's (WL) advert on page 137 of July 2009's MMM states that the Fendt motorhomes they are selling have a Ford 3 year warranty. Assuming there is not something 'funny' about how these vehicles arrive in WL's hands, there is no reason to doubt this (though the 2.4TD motor datum in WL's advert is wrong!)

 

If a RHD Fendt (available in Germany apparently) were purchased brand new in that country, then the Ford warranty would (unless things have changed since I bought my own motorhome) be 2 years from date of first purchase.

 

If I remember correctly, a motorhome based on a Ducato generally has a 2-year Fiat warranty, but, if the motorhome conversion has been carried out in the UK and the motorhome is sold new in the UK, then a 3rd-year 'dealership warranty' is normally added.

 

I emphasize that this is a rule of thumb and I'm pretty sure there are exceptions where the Fiat-based motorhome has been converted abroad but does attract a 3rd-year of warranty when sold new in this country. But I don't think there are any new UK-sold Fiat-based motorhomes that have an equivalent warranty to the 3-year 'bumper to bumper' type provided by Ford for new UK-sold Transit-based motorhomes.

[ron.]

Remember that warranties are only as good as the dealer. converter and manufacturer providing them. Choose wrongly and you face endless problems and delays, unless you want to take the sole destroying and protracted legal route that is.

 

In the past I have suffered at the hands of of some totally incompetent people. In the case of Burstener and Chelston Motorhomes it took over a year to have a badly leaking passenger door replaced on a new van - an acknowledged warranty claim from the start.

 

First and foremost only deal with highly reputable organisations if possible, the warranty itself takes second place if needed.

 

[Aliton]

After reading all the threads it looks like this has turned into a big debate and long may "The RisK" be exposed as they say. What amazed me is how much hassle owners have put up with in the Motorhome marketplace. The FENDT 500 looks fantastic and Wellhouse are the supplier but not an official FENDT Dealer. I spoke to every FENDT dealer in the UK and all of them without exception wouldnt touch the K500 warranty work because they havnt had the margin in the sale. I NOW understand that warranty for the Ford is for two years because the base models are already one year old. Given that a purchase of such an item is a lot of money for most people (second only to buying a house) its about time the Industry regulated itself and that FENDT should be accountable to the customers and be made to publish where UK Dealers are insitu and legally obliged to do warranty work. We were so "disschuffed" with the whole thing that I took it up with Wellhouse who gave me back my deposit with no hassle whatsover. As someone said "you are paying £10k under the odds" for the purchase however to me its not worth the risk and im the sort of person who couldnt stand the hassle if anything went wrong. Lovely motorhome , shame about the whole matter, not worth the risk in my books. FENDT should sort out its dealer network its rediculous.

[Brian Kirby]

What you have discovered is not primarily a Fendt issue, nor especially a UK issue.  If there is a problem with the base vehicle, in general, you can turn up at pretty much any franchised dealership in Europe and get it fixed without too much of a problem.  Not every time, and not in every single case, but in general, it works.  Where the problem lies in the habitation bit of a motorhome, it is more or less the norm that the only dealer who will touch the warranty work is the supplying dealer.  This does vary a bit, with dealers handling the more reliable vans, and thus less exposed to warranty problems, maybe a bit more lenient in what they will do to help out.  However, especially where the vans are imported into the UK, you need to press the dealer firmly on their relationship with the manufacturer as regards warranty.  It appears to be the case that some dealers have concluded deals with manufacturers under which they assume liability for warranty work in lieu of the manufacturer.  I asked one UK dealer how he got on with the Hobby warranty for water ingress (which is all in German), which requires the record of the annual inspections to be filed back to the factory to maintain the manufacturer's liability for faults, and he said they had never returned any of the records.  My understanding is that the factory would then have no further interest in the vans and the whole liability for warranty work would have to be borne by the dealer.  Since the dealer subsequently ceased handling Hobbys, and later re-constituted itself under a new management and name, I suspect there may be quite a few UK Hobby owners who couldn't turn to the factory for assistance should the need arise.  (As an aside, I also asked the successor UK Hobby dealer how they were handling warranty work on vehicles supplied by their predecessors, and they said they were not, and had concluded a deal with Hobby on the basis that all warranty liability for vehicles supplied by their predecessors would remain with them.  Hmmmmm!!)

Regarding the Fendts, unless the word on the Ford warranty came from Ford themselves, I would suspect its accuracy.  Ford's policy, as expressed to me, is that the warranty commences when the vehicle is first registered with DVLA.  If the vehicles were sourced for UK use, as seems likely, then Ford should accept that they will carry the UK standard two years manufacturer's and one years insurance backed warranty as for other UK supplied Ford vehicles.  However, only Ford can definitively say. 

The "punt" on these Fendts is really whether £10,000 off the normal UK selling price is a sufficient discount to compensate for the lack of manufacturer's warranty.  In any event, Wellhouse would have to give some assistance with faults, under the Supply of Goods Acts and Sale of Goods Act requirements for goods they sell to be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose.  Of course, if Wellhouse sink without trace, that avenue closes but, otherwise, the general quality of the product being good, even if a little patchy, I still think the risk is compensated by the saving.  Whatever the warranty may say, your first port of call has to be the dealer, it is only the factory back-up that is missing. 

As stated before, all the main bits have individual manufacturer's warranties, so the main risk is if something breaks, or if the coachbuilt bit leaks.  A thorough damp check should reveal if there are any present problems and, if there are not, since the component parts and sealants are of high quality, the chance of future leakage developing is small.  It exists, of course, but you can do a awful lot to a van for £10,000!!  Even if you reckon that the UK dealer price is £5,000 over the top (which I think it is), you would still be buying at £5,000 below a realistic price and, if the van then performs as it should, without problem or leakage, when it is time to sell, say in five years time when all contemporary vans' water ingress warranties will have expired, you should experience lower depreciation on sale/trade in than those who paid the full UK dealership price. 

Of course the other UK Fendt dealers are miffed, they can see Wellhouse with 40 vans they can't sell.  I'd be just a little surprised if Fendt didn't try them on their other dealers first, so if Wellhouse took the risk, who is really to blame?

[Derek Uzzell]

Returning to the UK Ford Transit warranty, I believe this is not as Brian advises.

 

I have a UK Ford Service Portfolio booklet (albeit a 2005 publication) and this contains the following section:

 

"What is the Warranty period?

 

The Ford Base Warranty starts on the day the vehicle is delivered to the first retail or fleet customer. Where an intermediary purchases a vehicle, the period of cover commences when the vehicle is handed over to that intermediary.

 

Note: The warranty period for dealer demonstrator vehicles starts on the day the vehicle is put into service (not the day the vehicle is first sold retail).

 

The warranty period applicable to your vehicle is detailed inside the front cover of this booklet."

 

A listing inside the front cover of the 2005 Service Portfolio booklet indicates the type of warranty ('base', or, where applicable, Optional Extended Warranty (OEW) for 2nd & 3rd years) for each Ford model, together with the warranty's duration and any mileage limits. For a 2005 UK-sold Transit the data are 3 years/100,000 miles (base warranty), 3 years/100,000 miles (paint warranty), 6 years/unlimited mileage (perforation warranty). There is no mention of an OEW for Transit vehicles. I believe these warranty terms and conditions should also apply to all post-2005 UK-sold Transits.

 

I've mentioned before on this forum that the dealership information on Hobby's website and in their vehicle documentation was startlingly unreliable, and it seems that this is also true with Fendt.

 

It seems perfectly understandable to me that motorhome dealers may tend to treat non-customers as 'untouchables', or second class citizens, where warranty work is concerned, particularly when it's obvious that the person with the problems has deliberately chosen to buy elsewhere for price considerations.

 

The motorhome manufacturer expects buyers to return their vehicles to the vending dealership for under-warranty attention and I've have seen this expectation stipulated in warranty terms and conditions. When people purchase vehicles outside the 'official' dealership network, or outside their country of domicile, then it should be expected that the motorhome constructor will not be overly supportive if resolving warranty claims satisfactorily subsequently proves difficult.

 

It's unrealistic to expect a motorhome dealer to be somehow compelled to provide under-warranty work for a vehicle he/she has not sold. In the UK the vendor of a new motorhome has contractual liability for its condition and functionality, and it's peculiar that Wellhouse Leisure appear to be suggesting that this responsibility can simply be off-loaded on to other UK Fendt agents.