Government Response to overnight stops.

[JayM]

We have become more increasingly frusrated as regards to parking or stopping overnight following a long drive in this Country. (Hence my other post 2 Weeks in France) I just want to get away where we will be made welcome.

This Country is not trying hard enough to accommodate Motorhomes. ie: parking (for day trips) or overnight stop facilities.

 

Here is a link to the response the government made following a petition recently sent to them.

 

Some of you might already beware of it, but here it is anyway.

 

http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page19768

 

Happy driving John & Mary

 

ps. Thank everyone for their response and support regards 2 Weeks in France. Very helpful.

 

 

 

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

I don't like the way that we pay for services nationally, via our taxes, then the kitty is shared out, and spent locally.

 

We pay our road tax nationally ........

 

602

[Andy_C]

Jay&M - 2009-06-26 2:10 PM

 

We have become more increasingly frusrated as regards to parking or stopping overnight following a long drive in this Country. (Hence my other post 2 Weeks in France) I just want to get away where we will be made welcome.

This Country is not trying hard enough to accommodate Motorhomes. ie: parking (for day trips) or overnight stop facilities.

 

Here is a link to the response the government made following a petition recently sent to them.

 

Some of you might already beware of it, but here it is anyway.

 

http://www.number10.gov.uk/Page19768

An interesting choice of words in that response.

 

The two documents referenced in the response do provide a little encouragement, but still have the blinkered view that the only place motorhomes can be accommodated is in campsites.

 

See: The Good Practice Guide on Planning for Tourism

and Planning Policy Statement 7

 

In fact the provision of overnight parking places for motorhomes seems to fulfil many of the requirements of the above documents, in that they can be small scale, low cost, utilise existing facilities, be in or near town and village centres or close to existing tourist attractions, and will encourage both national and international visitors.

 

AndyC

[handyman]

would overnight parking not encourage skin flints in motorhomes who just love to pay nothing?

 

 

Just some daytime parking for motorhomes in tourist areas would do me just fine, and i would also pay for the space !! 8-)

[Andy_C]

handyman - 2009-06-26 4:45 PM

 

would overnight parking not encourage skin flints in motorhomes who just love to pay nothing?

 

 

Just some daytime parking for motorhomes in tourist areas would do me just fine, and i would also pay for the space !! 8-)

Local authorities would need to balance the cost of providing the facility against the potential benefits to local business.

 

Of course it's nice to get something for nothing, but there is no reason why overnight parking shouldn't be charged. The majority of local authorities who already provide, or permit, overnight motorhome parking make a charge for it.

 

AndyC

[GJH]

Andy_C - 2009-06-26 4:32 PM

 

(snip)

An interesting choice of words in that response.

 

The two documents referenced in the response do provide a little encouragement, but still have the blinkered view that the only place motorhomes can be accommodated is in campsites.

 

See: The Good Practice Guide on Planning for Tourism

and Planning Policy Statement 7

 

In fact the provision of overnight parking places for motorhomes seems to fulfil many of the requirements of the above documents, in that they can be small scale, low cost, utilise existing facilities, be in or near town and village centres or close to existing tourist attractions, and will encourage both national and international visitors.

 

AndyC

I think that reflects the fact that it is a response from national government and it is appropriate that they confine their response to national matters. Indeed, they point out in the first paragraph of the response

Responsibility for policy on parking rests with the relevant local traffic authorities and it is for them to decide on appropriate policies that balance the needs of local residents, emergency services, local businesses, and those who work in and visit the area.

 

As we discussed when the topic of the petition was first raised last year, requests for facilities really need to be directed to local councils, not national government.

 

I also wonder whether the response is influenced by the fact that only 637 people signed the petition.

 

Graham

[Guest Tracker]

handyman - 2009-06-26 4:45 PM

would overnight parking not encourage skin flints in motorhomes who just love to pay nothing?

 

Just some daytime parking for motorhomes in tourist areas would do me just fine, and i would also pay for the space !! 8-)

 

The first paragraph rather typifies the response from the people who prefer to use 'proper' camping sites and full facilities that they offer.

 

We who prefer not to use such facilities are labelled 'skin flints' by these people and my response to that is - there is no right or wrong - just different.

 

It is bad enough that the various UK authorities feel unable to do as the French and Germans in particular do so well in providing Aires and Stellplatz for us.

 

One only has to look at the sheer volume of Motorhomes touring those two countries and all those, mainly, well heeled Motor Caravanners spending their money in local shops and restaurants to see the benefits of having so many 'skin flints' around.

 

As far as day parking is concerned - if a town or village does not make it easy for us to park we just say Sod you and move on to where we are more welcome - which is why we mainly holiday abroad.

 

Perhaps a different approach is needed and whilst I would not know where to start maybe a 'British Passion' type of overnighting with a maximum 48 hour stopover would be feasible?

 

Whatever happens it would be good for people to stop knocking the non site users please. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andy_C]

Tracker - 2009-06-26 6:02 PM

Perhaps a different approach is needed and whilst I would not know where to start maybe a 'British Passion' type of overnighting with a maximum 48 hour stopover would be feasible?

It was tried a few years ago - couldn't get enough sites signed up.

 

The other issue with that is the UK planning regulations, which treat motorhomes as caravans. Meaning that anywhere you park for the night is classed as a 'caravan site', with the need for appropriate site licence and planning permission.

 

Incidentally those requirements don't apply to land in the control of a local authority, so is is relatively much easier for them to set up stopovers than it is for private land owners.

 

AndyC

[david lloyd]

Andy_C - 2009-06-26 6:26 PM

 

Tracker - 2009-06-26 6:02 PM

Perhaps a different approach is needed and whilst I would not know where to start maybe a 'British Passion' type of overnighting with a maximum 48 hour stopover would be feasible?

It was tried a few years ago - couldn't get enough sites signed up.

 

The other issue with that is the UK planning regulations, which treat motorhomes as caravans. Meaning that anywhere you park for the night is classed as a 'caravan site', with the need for appropriate site licence and planning permission.

 

Incidentally those requirements don't apply to land in the control of a local authority, so is is relatively much easier for them to set up stopovers than it is for private land owners.

 

AndyC

 

Actually not that much easier though as the land is (usually) the subject of a legal parking order and that has to be changed using a lengthy procedure including public consultation as well as re-writing the orders themselves.

 

None of this is impossible but, as we found out in getting the overnight parking established here in Guisborough, it does take time and persistence and is likely to be undertaken by the local authority only if it is instigated and persued by a motorhoming local resident.

 

David

[Brian Kirby]

However, the reply is useful in one respect.  That is that it makes clear that central government has no view one way or the other, and is content for such matters to be decided locally.  Surely that is of potential use when attempting to persuade local authorities that such provision could be made in their areas.

Whether a motorhome stopover should be classed as a vehicle park or a campsite is a bit of a "nice" point, but should not be allowed to distract from the central issue: that local authorities have the powers to create and/or license such facilities if they so choose.

That choice will presumably only be exercised if local councillors can first be persuaded that there is general commercial advantage to the facility, no nuisance factor from the facility, that it will be fully self-financing, that it will not adversely affect nearby property values, and that it can be controlled so as to exclude undesirable elements.  Maybe some photographs of a few of the better French/German/Italian stopovers might help in communicating what is wanted and what these vehicles actually are.  I think a lot of the problem is a lack of understanding on the part of councillors about what motorhomes are and, consequently, about what needs to be provided to attract their owners to a locality.  Many, I suspect, have only mental images of ageing VW campervans packed with hippies, and react accordingly.

[Tony Jones]

handyman - 2009-06-26 4:45 PM

 

would overnight parking not encourage skin flints in motorhomes who just love to pay nothing?

 

 

Just some daytime parking for motorhomes in tourist areas would do me just fine, and i would also pay for the space !! 8-)

 

It's not about being "skinflints," handyman. If we were real misers we wouldn't have spent (usually) 5-figure sums on leisure vehicles!

It's simply that if we don't NEED certain facilties (or in some cases any at all) why should we have to pay for them, simply in order to stay overnight legally?

I'm NOT a freeloader, and I'm quite happy to pay an appropriate parking fee to stay somewhere overnight, and pay a sensible charge for water/waste. But the vast majority of "proper" campsites expect us to subsidise their beautiful shiny shower blocks - not to mention children's play areas and even dog-walking areas, none of which are of any interest to us.

In the UK the only solution I've found is to join one of the "big two" clubs and use their CL/CS network, but even some of those insist on including (and charging for ) things I don't need.

 

So local authorities, PLEASE: just let us sleep in our van, using the facilities we've ALREADY bought, and charge us for what we actually need each day. Then we'll have some spare cash to spend in your local shops, restaurants and other attractions - cash we'd otherwise have wasted on £20-a-night campsites!

[JayM]

Well thankyou very much Tony, that was very well put,superbly presented. It's exactly the point I was trying to put over ( not very well ).

 

Thankyou all for a very enlightening debate.

 

Lets all hope that something can be done for us poor skinflints as regards to overnight stops and daily carparks.

 

All the best John & Mary

[Frankkia]

I agree - Well put Tony.

 

As for us - we rarely spend time in our 'van in the UK, being happier to go where we are welcome! It is not only the lack of "Aires" / "Stelplatze" in the UK but the general view of motorhomes/ers shown by not only people who think we are "skinflints" but by people in "the business" who should knoiw better.

 

As an example: We have travelled to a camp site (private) in Skegness and asked if they could accomodate a 27ft M/home - the conversation went like this:

 

Manager: "Wor is it a converted bus".

 

Me: "No it is a £80k purpose built m/home".

 

Manager: Yer wont be able to ger it ont peg

 

Me looking out of the window: Do you see the tag axle caravan with the awning which is twice the size of the caravan and the 4 x 4 which is just being packed up to take it all away.

 

Manager: Yer

 

Me: Well our 'van will take up less than half of that space.

 

Manager: Yer wont be able to ger it ont peg.

 

Me: Goodbye you obviously don't want the business.

 

Unfortunately this manager is not alone in giving British tourism a bad name.

 

We Travel in Germany quite a bit and both speak German. When we ask Germans why they don't come to the UK many of them point out that they would love to come but are aware of "overpricing" (read "ripped off") and the attitude to motorhomers.

 

In Germany stelplatze are provided, not through generosity, but as an astute business incentive. Tourists spend money!!! Here in the UK we have a different attitude towards tourism which is seen like any other form of service as demeaning or menial - in other countries being a waiter is seen as a good job whilst here many look down on the job.

 

We also suffer from the "green eyed monster" - If I am on a camp site paying then you should be too. This is an attitude we have come across not only in the UK but in Spain (not from the Spanish but from Brit caravanners who regularly write to the press ((the English versions)) to complain) where many shop, restaurant etc keepers are only too glad to see motorhomes turn up.

 

Am I a skinflint - NO - I merely prefer a different way of motorhoming and am quite prepared to pay for the facilities I do use. I am not prepared to go where I am not welcome or stay on camp sites being pestered by the colonel blimp types who want to regulate my life.

 

I vote with my feet (tyres) and go abroad. I also have pointed that fact out to local authorities to let them know where the tourist £s are going. Maybe it would have more of an incentive to them if many people do the same thing.

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

In a previous existance, I was a civil servant. Somebody would write to the PM suggesting (for instance) that VED should be added onto petrol.

 

Their letter would arrive on my desk. I would refer to my "Big Book of PC Answers", copy the most suitable onto a sheet of clean paper, and pass it to my HEO for his signature. I doubt that the PM even saw the original letter.

 

No doubt petitions are treated in a similar fashion. ???

 

If you want a considered answer, write to your MP. But is YOUR MP going to be interested in a stop-over in another constituancy?

 

602

[yeti]

My local authority have just revamped their tourism website and in the accommodation section there is no mention whatsoever of any campsites,despite the fact that we have a Caravan Club site in the area.

With this kind of attitude what can you hope for.

I have written to the clowncil pointing out the error of their ways.

See if you can find anything.

www.visitwirral.com

[duetto owner]

the problem is too many pikeys here in the UK that would abuse the system.

[LordThornber]

Frankkia - 2009-06-27 12:29 AM

 

 

As an example: We have travelled to a camp site (private) in Skegness and asked if they could accomodate a 27ft M/home - the conversation went like this:

 

Manager: "Wor is it a converted bus".

 

Me: "No it is a £80k purpose built m/home".

 

Manager: Yer wont be able to ger it ont peg

 

Me looking out of the window: Do you see the tag axle caravan with the awning which is twice the size of the caravan and the 4 x 4 which is just being packed up to take it all away.

 

Manager: Yer

 

Me: Well our 'van will take up less than half of that space.

 

Manager: Yer wont be able to ger it ont peg.

 

Me: Goodbye you obviously don't want the business.

 

Unfortunately this manager is not alone in giving British tourism a bad name.

 

This is a classic. On a similar theme, a site we used now and then was run along similar lines.

 

Us, any room?

 

Him, we're full but I'll find room for you

 

Us, great, we're not fussy

 

Him, good, between those 2 mobile homes there, they're not kipping here this weekend

 

Us, how much then please, (bearing in mind where we are)

 

Him, usual price lad, and think yerself lucky.

 

 

We did and we paid up.. :D :D

 

Martyn

[yeti]

duetto owner - 2009-06-27 10:10 AM

 

the problem is too many pikeys here in the UK that would abuse the system.

I don't think we have any more than France or Germany.

What we do have are ineffectual laws which have more holes than a Swiss cheese and upholders who are frightened of upsetting anyone.

Legitimate caravanners etc. are easy targets to fine etc.

[GJH]

duetto owner - 2009-06-27 10:10 AM

 

the problem is too many pikeys here in the UK that would abuse the system.

Not necessarily. The question came up in connection with Guisborough and the local council was able to make arrangements to watch out for any possible problems.

 

The point was also made that an existing car park was going to be used and no travellers had ever attempted to set up camp there in all the years it has existed.

 

Graham

[Travelling Tyke]

Hmm. Well......

These overnight stops, would there be many of them?

If it was an odd one or two they would be full within days of them being opened, either by people who do need to take an overnight stop or those "free" camping. So no real gain except for the very few - bitchiness from the rest of course

Now, if there were many...... read the above again only include the fact that local B n Bs, hotels, pubs etc who pay rates in the area would not be best pleased.........not to mention the CCC and CC and all of the CLs and CSs and private sites. I'm sure that the spending power of a few motor homes is going to make enough impact to placate these people.

Unless there is a sound financial reason for it (and free parking for people that can afford to buy a motorhome does not excite councillors enough to justify it) it isn't going to happen.

One final thought. Would this UK aires scheme include caravans.........etc....

 

Expect the unexpected, but not miracles

[Frankkia]

There are many travellers in the rest of europe but neither the French or Germans seem to have the same problem we have in moving them on to alternative accomodation and they don't appear to populate the Aires or Stelplatze.

 

The point regarding local B & Bs and other local businesses and camp sites is not valid. In Germany and France many camp sites offer Aires type facilities just next to their formal sites and are quite happy with the arrangement as they still make a profit, albeit smaller, from the supply of services. Many of the French Aires are in fact municipal camp sites again providing a service and maintaining visitor numbers to their towns.

 

Regarding caravans: Many Stelplatze are only for the use of motorhomes as they are seen as being self contained whereas caravans, in the main have such things as water and waste tanks outside. We were once on a stelplatz when a car and caravan arrived. The driver came over to me (why I don't know as we were the only Brits there) and asked if it would be ok for him and his family to stay. I said it didn't bother me but was not able to say if he was ok legally. He parked up but within 30 mins thepolice arrived and made him move despite the fact he and his family were just sitting down to a meal. - Seems they don't have to wait weeks to get a court order to shift people.

[JayM]

Travelling Tyke.... I would just like to say...I think you have missed the point!!.

 

Quote: Travelling Tyke.

"These overnight stops, would there be many of them?"

 

Yes.

 

I would hope there could be one in every town,village,or place of importance in this country.( Like France)

 

 

Quote: Travelling Tyke.

"If it was an odd one or two they would be full within days of them being opened, either by people who do need to take an overnight stop or those "free" camping. So no real gain except for the very few - bitchiness from the rest of course "

 

 

Could we please make it clear...We don't require FREE parking. We just want somewhere to park either..after a long journey or a day trip to a car park so we could look around a town/village to spend our money. I would quite happily pay for the parking.

 

Quote: Travelling Tyke.

 

"read the above again only include the fact that local B n Bs, hotels, pubs etc who pay rates in the area would not be best pleased".........

 

Why would we be affected by them?

 

We are Motorhomes, we don't need B&Bs hotels or pubs...well actually we would use the pubs.

 

Quote: Travelling Tyke.

 

 

not to mention the CCC and CC and all of the CLs and CSs and private sites. I'm sure that the spending power of a few motor homes is going to make enough impact to placate these people.

 

 

It would not affect CCC or CC or CLs or CSs..I use them as well. We are members of the Caravan club, so choice is King!

 

As for your flippent choice of words regarding "a few motorhomes"...How many Motor homes do you think there are in the Country now? A few more than you think.

Lets stick together and make it work... the Motorhome fraternity is growing by the day.

 

If tourism is to grow in this Country they need to take the blinkers off and realise Motorhomes are growing big time!

 

Quote: Travelling Tyke.

 

 

"Unless there is a sound financial reason for it (and free parking for people that can afford to buy a motorhome does not excite councillors enough to justify it) it isn't going to happen.

One final thought. Would this UK aires scheme include caravans.........etc...."

 

Again we are not out for freebies..If the councils provide the facilities We would certaintly pay the fees required.

 

Caravans? We were Caravaners for 3 years, and we can't recall ever needing to stop in a night stop over or a carpark.

 

Why? Because Caravans don't work the same as Motorhomes.

 

In our experiences we planned to go to a site and then we had a car to travel to the towns. Get my gist. Sorry sarcasm.

 

Anyway we will not be beaten..thanks for your comments Travelling Tyke.

 

 

Happy driving. John & Mary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SAS]

I can`t see why it`s not allowed at park & rides. If Canterbury can do it why can`t other places? However I think there should be a maximum time limit of 48 hours on it. http://www.motorcaravanning.com/travel/uk_aires.htm We parked at Dover Rd for 2 nights last year and it was perfect. The only thing that annoyed me was that some people seemed to be emptying toilet waste irresponsibly.

[jhorsf]

mtorhomes get the blame for lots of things coaches where do you think some of them empty the toilets? where do you think they empty grey waste water?

[W3526602]

Hi,

 

I have long thought that EVERY town should have a couple of acres available for overnight arrivals. Mainly for HGV trucks. Easily accessible from trunk roads, with civilised toilet/shower facilities, canteen, TV lounge, etc. Motel? Even space to off-load cargo onto smaller vans so the HGV doesn't need to go into town.

 

Such places would be first point of call for strangers coming into town, somewhere to ask directions, or whatever.

 

To avoid the unwelcome elements of society have barrier with cash desk.

Contract out the running of the site to a security firm, or recovery firm or both, and let them use it as their local headquarters. Maybe even use it as a police station, same as supermarkets are now doing.

 

And allow caravans, campervans, and even the private motorist who needs to kip in his car for a few hours.

 

602