kmoorman Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Having read Brian Kirby's excellent post on the Buying a first / New Van thread: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16295&posts=13 I was wondering if anyone can help me? We've been looking to get our 1st motorhome for a while now, and slowly by a process of online research and a trip to the recent Motorhome show at Peacehaven, we are agreed that we need to get a van with rear bunk beds for the kids, so the layout needs to similar to the CI Carioca 656. I've read that this layout is used by other manufacturers, but I've been unable to get a definitive list of them. Also, the CI Carioca seems to be both is short supply as far as second hand sales are concerned, which probably means they are very popular. In reference to Brian's post, there are 4 of us, 2 adults, and a 3 and 7 year old. We want to use the van for long weekends in the UK, as well as longer summer trips both in the UK and Europe. Is this payload of this and similar models sufficent for a family of 4, plus bikes etc? So, are there similar models out there to choose from? We have a max budget of about 15k. Any advice, questions are much appreciated, as I'm looking to get a van within the next 4 weeks to enable us to give it a runout to Cornwall in August. Kieron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Kieron, at 15k you are looking at buying a ten year old m/h or similar. I think some of the McLouis models of that age have bunks but bunks were few and far between until relatively recently. In your budget, you may be hard pressed to find a decent m/h with them fitted. Most British models were/still are built for the wrinkly market and despite being four or six berths, had two belts and a payload inadequate for a family of four and you may find a European manufacturer will provide the berths you need. One important thing, make sure whatever you buy has enough seatbelts fitted for all of you - it is surprising just how few m/hs did in those days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmoorman Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 messerschmitt owner - 2009-06-29 12:47 PM Kieron, at 15k you are looking at buying a ten year old m/h or similar. I think some of the McLouis models of that age have bunks but bunks were few and far between until relatively recently. In your budget, you may be hard pressed to find a decent m/h with them fitted. Most British models were/still are built for the wrinkly market and despite being four or six berths, had two belts and a payload inadequate for a family of four and you may find a European manufacturer will provide the berths you need. One important thing, make sure whatever you buy has enough seatbelts fitted for all of you - it is surprising just how few m/hs did in those days! Good advice thanks. Seat belts are high on our list of requirements, and we are quite particular that they must be front facing, as we will need to fit car seats to them, and you lose a lot of the benefit of these when they are fitted sideways on. I know we're pushing it at 15k... I guess for the right van we could go a thousand or 2 higher. So, the McLouis also do the rear bunks... thanks. Will the european models be mainly left hand drive (i don't mean that they will fluctuate between LHD and RHD, by the way)? Kieron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Kieron you should get a rhd McLouis. I need to go check back at the brochures from the time for the model number. They were imported as rhd models. As they were budget models from new the prices aren't too unreasonable! Seatbelts were high on our list too. IIRC the McLouis Glen is the bunkbed model. also worth considering is the ci carioca 5 or 50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel wood Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 It can be quite difficult to fit children's car seats in a motorhome. ( I was a childminder for many years so know what I am talking about ). It is difficult to stop the seats from sliding about as the belts donot tighten very well. I remember reading some time ago an article in either MMM or the Caravan Club magazine about the problem. (This is composed by Mel's wife, he was a teacher!!). Hope you manage to fit seats but would advise you take them with you when looking at vans and fit them for the test drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 My basic advice remains the same, so will you hire first, and have you ordered that book!With small children, I think you may be well advised to look at this as no more than a "first" van, maybe to keep until they are into their teens, when you will probably have to think again. Children generate clutter, and clutter generates weight. Apart from finding the right van, which will be rather a push and liable to involve quite a bit of charging around the country, I would suggest you make sure you understand how payloads are calculated, and what payload you will need. That book again will help with the calculation, and so will writing down everything you think you will need, weighing it, and adding it up. I kid you not, it is really the only way. Many sales people have little or no experience of motorhoming, or of what may be involved in loading a van, and many will quote inaccurate payloads, or merely assure you there is loads for your needs. It is far better to know for yourself than to rely on what may be well intentioned advice, but equally may be advice designed to secure a sale. Do also be aware that catalogue figures for payloads do not include any extras or options, the weights of which deduct from the payload remaining for you and yours. Also, remember that not all manufacturers use the "Euronorm" calculation, some of the Italian made vans being the worst offenders! Simply stated, the payload is what is left when the unladen weight of the van is deducted from its Maximum Allowable Mass (MAM). The MAM is a legal maximum, that must not be exceeded under any circumstances. The unladen weight should be established by weighing the complete van with all normal tools (jack etc), a driver (deemed to weigh 75Kg, so if you weigh more than that your surplus comes off the payload!), no waste water, and the fuel tank, fresh water tank, and gas reserves at least 90% full. There is a +/- tolerance of 5% on these weights, and 5% of, say, 2,800 Kg unladen is 140Kg! You will notice this omits any passengers, so your wife and children (remember they will grow!) must be weighed and their weights deducted from the payload. What is then left is what you have for all your food, liquids, clothes, bedding, toys, games, bikes, mains cable, water hose, books, maps, guides, sat nav, laptop, levelling ramps, etc. In short, the lot! Looking at secondhand vans, you must also take account of any awning, solar panel, satellite dish etc that has been attached to the van, since these will not have been included in the catalogue payload figure a salesman may quote you.Just the two of us manage to add about 500Kg in the above clutter to the unladen weight of our van (and it is only a two berth) giving an actual laden weight around 3,300Kg. Its (correctly calculated) "catalogue" unladen weight is 2817Kg. So, as you can see, you won't have much to play with, which is why understanding it, and getting it right, are so important.Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 kmoorman Around the year 2000 the French motorhome manufacturer was producing the "First" range of overcab motorcaravans aimed squarely at 'family' buyers and quite a few of these models had bunk beds and double-dinettes with 3-point belts on the forward-facing seats. They were based either on the Fiat Ducato or the Ford Transit Mk 5, with the latter type destined for the French market. (I recall seeing a Transit-based First once in the UK, but it may well have been LHD.) Undoubtedly pretty rare in the UK, but, if you could find one, it should be sub-£15K by now. It's possible that other makers in the Pilote Group (eg. Bavaria and Frankia) were also producing similar designs to "First" in that period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmoorman Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Thanks to everyone for the advice. Brian, we have hired a van before (10 days in Ireland last summer). We hired a 5 berth Roller Team van, which was nice, but the layout wasn't to our liking, which is the reason who were looking for the layout with the 2 rear bunk-beds. I will get the book you recommend, as it looks ideal for anyone looking to get their first motorhome, and also it seems to be of value to those who already own one. I will do an inventory of what we'll need to carry in the van (with weights) to calculate the total weight we'll be carrying. I'll investigate the other models mentioned, the McLouis Glen, Carioca 5 & 50 and the Pilote models. Cheers Kieron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmoorman Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 Hi there, I just thought I'd pop back to say I purchased the book as Brian suggested, and I've read it all... very useful, and it re-inforces my wish to get a 6 berth van with the 2 bunk-beds setup. But there aren't many of them about it would appear. I'll just have to keep looking. Kieron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nowtelse2do Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 kmoorman Another thing you may want to consider is most continental makes don't have ovens, so meal times with family means every thing cooked on three burner hob. If that is the case then you would have to consider having a microwave. The advice Brian gave about hiring is very sound, just a few hundred pounds against thousands if it is not the life for you. Good Luck. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmoorman Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 nowtelse2do - 2009-07-15 2:19 PM kmoorman Another thing you may want to consider is most continental makes don't have ovens, so meal times with family means every thing cooked on three burner hob. If that is the case then you would have to consider having a microwave. The advice Brian gave about hiring is very sound, just a few hundred pounds against thousands if it is not the life for you. Good Luck. Dave Good advice... although we've recently purchased a fan assisted halogen oven for home, which makes us think that perhaps we could get away without an oven (if we take that). We did the hiring last summer, plus I've got some years of experience of being in motorhomes as a kid with my family (with exactly the same dynamics as our current family). Kieron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Children do not stay small for long and personally I find bunk beds somewhat claustrophobic. My two teenagers share a large and airy overcab without any problems. Considering the age of vans you are considering why limit yourself. I would not worry regards an oven either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmoorman Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 JudgeMental - 2009-07-15 2:46 PM Children do not stay small for long and personally I find bunk beds somewhat claustrophobic. My two teenagers share a large and airy overcab without any problems. Considering the age of vans you are considering why limit yourself. I would not worry regards an oven either. Food for thought... we just like the idea that with the bunk beds separate from the dining area, we can put the kids to bed without having to all go to bed (but I guess that's still possible with the overcab double bed). It would certainly widen our options, and reduce the costs to meet our requirements. It would suggest another summer rental then. Kieron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 kmoorman - 2009-07-15 3:53 PM JudgeMental - 2009-07-15 2:46 PM Children do not stay small for long and personally I find bunk beds somewhat claustrophobic. My two teenagers share a large and airy overcab without any problems. Considering the age of vans you are considering why limit yourself. I would not worry regards an oven either. Food for thought... we just like the idea that with the bunk beds separate from the dining area, we can put the kids to bed without having to all go to bed (but I guess that's still possible with the overcab double bed). It would certainly widen our options, and reduce the costs to meet our requirements. It would suggest another summer rental then. Kieron. My van has 2 large permanent beds. the rear 1500mm wide and the overcab 1600mm. They both can be occupied leaving the lounge area free for lounging and the kitchen/bathroom as well. plus it is only 6.6 m long and a reasonable payload which many forget to factor in...... probably over your budget though, which I think is to tight and will lead to a compromise.........Anyway, this layout is pretty standard in a European van, but not many old vans have as spacious an overcab. I forgot, it has a massive garage for all your stuff as well. which helps keep the interior uncluttered. http://www.euramobil.de/_produkte_gb_2009/profila_alkoven_start.html If you are going to holiday in Europe why not rent there as well it is cheaper...Google Belgium or try the dealers there they all run rental schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Roller Team and many other continental manufactures have been producing vans with bunks for years it just that they have not been imported to the UK. If you are OK with LHD even with the current exchange rate you will get a lot newer van by buying in Germany or Belgium & it’s not much hassle to import. Take a look at :- http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/search.html?scopeId=MH<=en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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