Guest Tracker Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 After many years of managing very well without an auxiliary 12 volt power generation source I am starting to think that a solar panel might be a good idea to help keep the leisure batteries (2 x 110 ah) fully topped up at over 12.8 volts. This is something that both the van alternator and the inbuilt mains charger seem to be unable to be designed to do these days and as a result I only just have enough battery power to keep the diesel heating satisfied on a cold weekend. Am I right in thinking that the higher charge voltage of a regulated solar panel will also help keep the battery plates desulphated? So next step - what make and what wattage to go for - 50 watts seems a good compromise between price and performance - any thoughts? Is a solar panel a solar panel or are there differences between makes? Is a regulator a regulator or, again, are some better than others? I think maybe a twin output regulator - unless I switch the supply from one to t'other - when I remember - will also allow me to keep the vehicle battery topped up when not in use and is it really as simple as I think it is and as simple as it appears to be? Simply fix the panel to the roof, wire the panel to the regulator and then wire both leisure and van batteries directly but separately to the regulator? I would appreciate the wisdom of experience please. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trigrem Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hi Tracker, I cannot answer all your questions, but I can give my experience. Like you we have diesel water and space heating and I was concerned about the amount of power used to start up the diesel heater. I fitted an extra battery so now have two 135 amphr batteries, I have a 80watt solar panel connected through a single output controller, I also have a Battery Master connected between the Leisure batteries and the Vehicle battery so when the leisure batteries are of higher voltage than vehicle battery there is a trickle charge one way. Between April and October I had no problems up to a week ( did not stay longer than a week) without hook up, obviously during warm weather we were only using the water heating side. During January to March we were in Portugal/Spain and although we were on hook up when on campsites we never switched on the battery charger for 6 weeks, obviously we used hook up power for heating and water, but the rest of the 12 volt appliances were used during early darkness and late morning lightness. No problems with power when using Aires, in fact the controller was switching down the input charge most of the time. I do not think there is an economic gain in installing a Solar Panel. But there is not an economic gain in owning a motorhome. But there is a lot of incalculable Pleasure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 With all the rain we have had and going to get in South West Wales, how about fitting a large water tank on the roof with a feed to a water wheel driving a generator?????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp002c784tp002c784tp Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Tracker - 2009-07-10 6:11 PM After many years of managing very well without an auxiliary 12 volt power generation source I am starting to think that a solar panel might be a good idea to help keep the leisure batteries (2 x 110 ah) fully topped up at over 12.8 volts. This is something that both the van alternator and the inbuilt mains charger seem to be unable to be designed to do these days and as a result I only just have enough battery power to keep the diesel heating satisfied on a cold weekend. Am I right in thinking that the higher charge voltage of a regulated solar panel will also help keep the battery plates desulphated? So next step - what make and what wattage to go for - 50 watts seems a good compromise between price and performance - any thoughts? Is a solar panel a solar panel or are there differences between makes? Is a regulator a regulator or, again, are some better than others? I think maybe a twin output regulator - unless I switch the supply from one to t'other - when I remember - will also allow me to keep the vehicle battery topped up when not in use and is it really as simple as I think it is and as simple as it appears to be? Simply fix the panel to the roof, wire the panel to the regulator and then wire both leisure and van batteries directly but separately to the regulator? I would appreciate the wisdom of experience please. Many thanks. Hi Tracker I like trigrem in the previous posting have a 80watt Solar panel but only 2x85watt batteries and I also have a battery Master fitted, at the Peterborough show we attended the full weekend and our system never flickered, watched the goggle box most of the night had showers every night but always where economic with the lights even though I have changed most of my internal bulbs with LED,S. The zig type panel that I have is computerized and I can test voltage and amperage been used at all times and at all times I have checked during charging periods both lesure batterys and vehicle battery always stand the same round about 13.8 volts. So I think a solar Panel is a good investment. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 My power usage is of a different kind than yours in that our main consumption is by fridge so when camping the solar panel complements our usage, but when van is parked for long periods as at moment because it's offroad, then a 30w panel keeps both our batteries charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 We have two 110AH (please lets not confuse watts for Amp/hours as in previous postings) Elecsol batteries, a 100 litre compressor fridge and a 100 Watt solar panel. Heating is yet to be installed but will be by gas demand water heater and blown air gas fired space heating. On our latest jaunt of four nights away the solar panel kept up adequately with our usage, battery voltage never fell below 12.4 (reading taken at 6.00AM) and daytime temperatures in the van reached 28 C plus so the fridge worked hard. We also used the TV on 12V for a couple of hours most nights. At present there is no other means of charging the leisure batteries but I do have a Sterling B2B charger to install. D. P.S. even inside my workshop the solar panel can give 0.1 Amp charge in bright sunlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkc Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Hi Tracker, Some of the sites I found useful when I fitted mine. Most of the points you raised are dealt with here I think. A panel with a decent regulator will look after the battery perfectly, Taking care of over/charging, over discharging, disulphation. Alden and Kyocera seem to have a good reputation, but are expensive, http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/solar_panels.htm#Buy lots of info. www.sunshinesolar.co.uk good FAQ section http://www.leisurepower.co.uk/acatalog/solar_advice.html http://www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/30.htm Some of the things I found out by doing it, that nobody mentioned. Think very carefully about location, i.e. where does the lead exit the panel in relation to where you going to drill the wire entry hole. Nice if you can keep the entry under the panel for protection against UV/ snagging/ leaks etc, and still get the lead to come out inside the van inside a locker/ wardrobe etc. Beware of shading from nearby vents, I had mine positioned beautifully behind the sliding skylight, only to find that when opened the vent shaded a small part of the panel, result no output. You will need to clean the panel now and again so think about the ability to reach it. But not too near the edge of the van so it is vulnerable to low branches etc. (I fitted a piece of alloy angle strip in front of the leading edge of the panel like this ^ to act as a deflector for branches, slipstream, and high speed driving rain. It’s a good idea to tape a sheet of thick paper/ cardboard over the face of the panel until you are all connected up to avoid shorting, or scratching the panel face with tools. The regulator should ideally be near to the battery being charged for temperature stabilization/voltage drop considerations, unless you want to watch a digital readout. (This very soon gets boring and you soon go back to watching the newbie’s trying to erect their awning, or the stunning blonde in hot pants playing tennis.) Despite my initial doubts Sikaflex 512 sticks like brown stuff to a blanket* so you can avoid drilling holes for mounting bolts,(I being a belts and braces guy did fix mine with one bolt, but my son says that’s just me being anal.) My setup? 2 off 110ah batteries, 75 Watt polycrystalline panel, 1 Honda eu 10i generator just in case.( me being anal again apparently). Note; any conservationist out there thinking of getting on my case, don’t bother, I’m as Green as the next guy, but if my batteries are flat, and I’m cold and hungry, I will (with due consideration to other nearby campers) run the generator and grill a Panda. Having said all this, my son uses a free standing 40 Watt Panel which he adjust throughout the day, this seems to work for him, and because of the ability to track the Sun he gets similar output. *If you use this to go off on one of your anti government rants, I shall be very disappointed and report you to Roon. Hope this is of some help. Regards PKC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 I agree with the above posts, it is never going to be an economical adventure with the solar panel, but just knowing that your vehicle will start, if a Battery Master is fitted (IMHO Essential) is very comforting. On my last 6 week trip to Spain on day 2 the mains charging system failed, but no problems because the Solar panel kept us going. So one of my best investments and it is 85Watts. Good luck mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Just be aware some vans have a regulator already in the vans electrical system. My Autotrail can accept a panel up to 100 Watts without an extra regulator. Perhaps your van manufacturer will be able to advise you on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 11, 2009 Share Posted July 11, 2009 Tomo3090 - 2009-07-11 6:15 PM Just be aware some vans have a regulator already in the vans electrical system. My Autotrail can accept a panel up to 100 Watts without an extra regulator. Perhaps your van manufacturer will be able to advise you on this. We are currently (excuse the pun) fitting 85 watt panels from Sargent who make the control panels for many motorhomes including Auto Trail and we have the correct plugs for connecting into the EC 325 control unit, To the best of my knowledge this is the only Sargent control unit with a built in regulator. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Many thanks everyone for your invaluable input - especially PKC's thoughts and experiences. Even I don't blame Gordon B for the lack of sunshine! My Autocruise has an EC200 unit and so would appear not to have an access point for a solar panel. Although many people have solar panels it seems that not many seem to know what make it is or have tried more than one make for comparison purposes? I'm not into cheap and cheerful unless cheap and cheerful does the same job just as effectively as expensive - problem is how does one find out without buying as I would rather buy a brand with a proven reputation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul- Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Kyocera panels are probably the best buy at the moment & they are very efficient. Morningstar sunsaver is probably the best regulator for using in motorhomes caravans or boats, pws charging & safe in hazardous locations, a good idea as controllers should be positioned within close proximity to the battery. Freestanding solar panels will work the best as they can be positioned to face the sun, (a good example is to look at the shadow from the panel, the bigger the shadow the more sun that’s hitting it) however if you intend to fit yours to the roof get a panel that will produce much more power than you want, & one with non reflective glass (Kyocera panels are non reflective). Before you decide do a Google ;-) Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Tracker - 2009-07-12 3:22 PM Although many people have solar panels it seems that not many seem to know what make it is or have tried more than one make for comparison purposes? I would like to tell you what make our panel is as it seems to out perform any similier panel judging by the recommendations for panel size people give, but I brought it 10years ago and can't remember make or even where it came from :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I have a 100 Watt Alden panel but I don't think I'd reccomend them anymore. We've had more problems of late with Alden equipment than any other brand and my own 100 Watt panel has never bettered 4.5 Amps, although it does cope adequately with our usage at the moment. We're presently fitting panels from Sargent which come in at a quite reasonable price. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njw Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 had my panel fitted by solar solutions 4yrs ago ,and just had it transfered to my new van, when i ordered my 110w panel they turned up at a motorhome show to fit it and found it was to big , although they said they could fit a 120w panel as they were narrower so for a extra 10w they charged me £20 ,best thing i ever fitted even when my boys had playstations ,dvd players,phone chargers,etc running the batterys down but never flat.bigger the better,but what ever size you can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobalobs Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 If it helps our 7 year old Murvi Morello is fitted with Eberspacher hydronic blown air and hot water system and a BP Solar panel 60 watts of similar age. We have just spent 7 days on pitch without hookup in Devon with "sunny periods"using the system for hot water morning and evening lights and radio but very limited heating as it is the summer! On leaving site the battery was 13.2 volts and 8 amp to be put back in the 2 elecsol 100 amp batteries which we would have done with ease had we stayed on site. For 8 months of the year the setup is fine but when it comes to winter with the constant need for heating and long dark nights we would not want to be static for more than 2 nights at most before moving on or finding a hookup. The Eberspacher seems very sensitive to voltage drop particularly when it is cold and batteries are not at their best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughmer Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I looked at the Maplins 60 watt kit on Special offer just now, only £199.99 but it's very heavy and BIG Today I found this, though only good till 11 Aug. But £260 seems a very good price. 60 watt panels are usually £350 / £360 http://www.sunshinesolar.co.uk/khxc/gbu0-prodshow/SS60W.html I notice it's Monocrystalline whereas the Kyocera and Sargent's are polycrystalline. Does anyone have views as to whether the efficiency of the poly type is worth the extra cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 I'm having two 85 Watt panels fitted tomorrow at Leisure Power in Warrington. I had gone to the Pickering Show with the intention on checking out 130 Watt panels but Mike from Leisure Power convinced me I wouldn't need panels that big, based on me explaining my needs. I will post how we get on and what happens when we go away next week until the begining of September. I will try to go the whole time without using the battery charger on EHU and I'll report back. I have 2 110 Amp Elecsol batteries, LED lights, but the water heater and heating system uses gas when not hooked up, but the latter is blown air. I'll try to make a log on what power comes in and what times of the day, so it will give a working example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly58 Posted August 9, 2009 Share Posted August 9, 2009 We have an 80w solar panel and 2 110amph batteries when its sunny the panel feeds around 24v into the regulator which then feeds 12.6 into the batteries after loads of use without hookup the batteries have not gone below 12.2v ,so I can assume this must be normal , unless someone knows different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Update as promised. Panels fitted today and up to half an hour ago they registered that they had put 7 amps into the batteries from 2.30pm. The maximum registered on the meter was 5.6 amps when parked in the sun at 4.00pm. The sun goes behind the house after that but even when the van was in the house shadow completely they registered 1.7- 2.2 amps being "collected". The weather has alternated between sunny periods and a thick grey clound blocking out the sun, but no rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Thanks everyone. I bought and fitted a 60w Kyocera solar panel and Morningstar regulator from Midsummer Energy. They were helpful pre purchase by answering a few queries and delivery was on time next day as promised. Fitting was straightforward enough albeit a little time consuming! We went away to the Bristol Balloon Fiesta last weekend and were on the MCC rally site from Thursday to Monday, and although we did not need any heating we had some evening TV and lighting as well as constant hot (VERY hot) water from the Eberspacher. The battery voltage (2 x 110ah) did not drop below 12.6 volts for the duration and although it was mainly sunny most days I am content with this performance as we rarely stop anywhere for more than two days and the batteries would last this without any help - except in darkest coldest deep BFW (bloody freezing weather!). If we were more inclined to stop on sites for more time I would probably have gone for an 85w panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Prices please Gentlemen, as I'm toying with summat similar to keep our MH engine battery topped up......... Cheers m'dears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted August 11, 2009 Share Posted August 11, 2009 BGD - 2009-08-10 9:44 PM Prices please Gentlemen, as I'm toying with summat similar to keep our MH engine battery topped up......... Cheers m'dears. You shouldn't need anything more than 30w if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Oops - must've hit "SEND" twice by mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Colin - thanks for that tip. As we live here in Spain, we do actually get sunshine.....in fact a lot of it! I have seen other MH's over here with a sort of "portable" solar panel, which might do the job............ Oblong panel, maybe 24 inches wide by 10 inches high, with a lead which terminates in a cigar lighter plug. People here with these things seem to just prop the panel inside the windscreen, up against the glass, when the MH is parked up for any length of time at their home/on site. I understand that such a relatively small panel isn't gonna charge an empty vehicle battery, but I think it's simply a sort of top-up, to maintain the charge in the vehicle battery over weeks etc of non-use. There are some such "in-car" solar-battery-chargers on ebay, but most look to be the tiny, made in China, probably hopelessly underpowered, and of dire quality. Does anyone have any experience of such things/any advice on the size/wattage that would be effective; and any tips on brands or suppliers who might do mail order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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