In the market for a new M/Home

[Guest peter]

Michele if you want a really big van, look at the Burstner Argos. Bags of space. But it is a giant of a van and 60k+.

[Tomo3090]

Hi Michelle, We've got an 2008 Autotrail Cheyenne and there have been some bits gone wrong, but they have been problems with bits put on the van, (they are also problems that other van builders have had too), but nothing to do with the Autotrail build bits, if you see what I mean. They were also nothing major and nothing that spoiled any of our trips. It is also a 2.3 FIAT Ducato and it drives like a dream. It is the comfiest driving position I've ever had. It has no problem reversing, shedding water and the lights are showing no signs of misting over after 11,000 of driving, even in some torrential rain and sleet

 

If you approach a good dealer and explain your requirements then I'm sure they can help sort you out a decent van. We do pay a lot for them and in an ideal world they would always give a faultless performance, but then in an ideal world someone would be paying for the fuel too! The main thing I think is that any snags are fixed quickly with the minimum of fuss and "downtime". We have had a good service from Spinney Motors in Cheshire with both our vans, they are a Swift, Autotrail, Frankia and Autocruise dealer and they have a large stock of 2nd hand vans. And it's nearer than Dusseldorf!!

 

Good luck with your search.

 

P.S. I don't work for Spinneys'!!

[coxie]

I wouldn't touch a Bessacarr or a Swift for that matter. We bought a brand new Bessacarr E695 last August, and despite being really happy with the layout choice we made, we have been totally fed up with the continuous problems we've encountered. Our recent complaint letter sent to Swift and the dealer amounted to just under 20 issues, including a new habitation door, an upgrade to the control panel, a new dinette table, a new TV, a fridge that doesn't work on gas and a rear settee/bed that is pushing the side of our van out.

On receiving our complaint letter, Swift responded very quickly (no surprise there - considering we threatened to visit all the appropriate motorhome forums about our problems), however, they have still not managed to complete all the necessary repairs within the timeframe we gave them and we've even got to send our van back to the factory for 3 weeks. God knows when as they've shut down for 3 week summer break now.

 

We are also still waiting to hear from Fiat about the reverse gear judder.

 

Totally p****d off with Swift's poor build quality and bad design, which has left us trying to get problems fixed rather than enjoying our pride and joy.

Think before you buy any van from the Swift group.

[mrs p hancox]

Hi Mel, I know you may already be aware and guess you are but remember you may be able to get your vat back as sounds like one of your children has mobility problems. This may be able to help you stretch your pound abit further. Also I am looking to sell my van and have already been offered £1000 more than any dealer so may be worth you going down that route to increase the spending power.

[Vernon B]

euroserv - 2009-07-13 6:23 PM

 

 

I don't have a camper, I run vans, lots of vans.

 

 

There are gearbox issues, engine management woes and other things about the X250 Fiats (Peugeots and Citroens) that bother me but not the sorts of things that you need to concern yourself with during the 30,000 to 40,000mile lifetime of the average camper.

 

Nick

 

A few ramblings -

 

I tried a 2.3 Fiat powered 6.5 metre A Class last week and was really impressed with the improved refinement and responsiveness of this unit compared with my 2003 2.8JTD. As far as the judder was concerned the dealer reckons he can pick a "wrong un" very quickly even going forward up an incline - all down to mechanical sensitivity - but then he'd only found one ...

 

Met another chap who says he'd seen a report that Fiat were about to drop the 2.3 litre and reckons this was a re-badged unit from another manufacturer - but then the problem is with the clutch/gearbox ...

 

Finally me wonders when the MH industry will make the purchase of a new 'van a delight rather than a lottery in which far too many people end up as disappointed victims - but then we do let them get away with it ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[libby]

Miclelle

 

A suggestion, wait two years and the saved cash may enable you to buy a Merc

 

Bill

[AliB]

We are into the second year if ownership of a Swift Sundance 630L. That’s the one with a big rear lounge but the 630G has a garage.

Overall, the quality and service from Swift has been good, only being let down by the poor PDI from the dealer.

One week after delivery we returned the vehicle with a list of minor defects. Most of these were fixed. However on a few points, the windscreen blinds not staying closed for more than 15 minutes, the reversing camera not showing a mirror image and a couple more I was told by the dealer that was “as good as you get”.

Writing to Swift produced a next day reply with a list of part numbers requesting that I get the dealer to order and fit, a copy being sent to the dealer. I consider that good customer service from Swift. OK, it would have been good to have it right first time but it was quickly resolved.

We did look at a few German built motorhomes – yes the standard of engineering is higher but so is the price. About another £10K or 25% extra. And that was for a lower spec. model, not the 4000Kg chassis which we needed. The Swift range score with the superbly equipped kitchens – oven, grill, electric ring on the hob and a microwave. As we do a lot of cooking that was a major win for us.

The dinette seats are very upright which makes travelling a little uncomfortable but that was the same on many motorhomes we looked at. I have added a sloping support behind the cushion that gives a more relaxed position.

To go German we would have had to look at older models. Our budget dictated our choice and we are happy with the result

Regarding the “Fiat Thing” I’ll let you know next week after I’ve had the modifications

 

[Brian Kirby]

So, you see my point?  Some good, some bad, some judder, some don't.  It's back to Clint: "you feelin' lucky, Punk"?.  :-)

[michele]

Well guys & gals thanks alot for all the helpful info .

 

We were thinking of a left hand drive after all as Dave said we dont spend alot or any time in England may as well save money .

 

will let you know how we get on .

[Brian Kirby]

If you're intent on buying new, you will probably find that UK prices for new LHD vans are hardly less than for RHD vans.  Most of the saving will come only if you buy abroad, generally meaning France, Germany, or Belgium.  If buying abroad I think it essential that you stick to the makes with solid reputations for quality, and dealers with good reputations for service, near places you often visit, or near the Channel.  Any van of any make can have problems, so reducing the risk to the minimum, along with the difficulty of getting faults rectified, is that much more important when visiting the dealer involves crossing the ditch!

Based on what others say, I'd generally try to stick to German manufacture, with the possible exception of Rapido, who are generally good but seem to have a bit of a customer service problem when faults arise.  Makes well represented on the UK market will be easier to sell, when the time comes, so that should probably also be a consideration. 

Makes?  Hymer, Burstner, Eura Mobil and maybe Hobby (though on personal experience, I'm a bit dubious about Hobby's quality control), and as above, Rapido.  It isn't that the others are no good, nor that these makes are all perfect, just that in the case of Hymer and Burstner the factories have excellent factory customer relations departments, to which you can arrange to take your van if necessary, and the factories are not so far away as to make this an illusion.

Dealers?  Calais Caravanes are, not surprisingly, in Calais.  Small family firm, speak English, excellent service, Burstner dealer.  Bought our first van from them and it was spotless and fault free on delivery, even the water and gas installations had been tried and tested.  Volunteered a discount before I had even mentioned price.  Located near Fort Nieulay in Avenue Roger Salengro, not far from the Auchan.  Will drive your van to the ferry or tunnel terminals if asked nicely, which avoids any complication with insurance on an unregistered/foreign registered vehicle outside UK.

Eddie (Judgemental) seems to have found another treasure in Belgium, so perhaps he will fill in the name etc for them.

However, the biggest problem at present is getting the van home and registered on UK insurance.  It seems the situation is currently worse than it was four years ago, when your UK insurance could be obtained on a VIN/chassis number, and the van driven in UK on that to get it home and registered.  This, it seems, is no longer possible.

So far as I am aware, there is only one firm that will now issue insurance for personal imports: Motorcaravanwise.  However, last time I asked them, they were saying that the van must be registered within two weeks of issuing the insurance.  In my view this is unworkable in all bar a very few cases, since you need the insurance certificate with you before you can travel, and that will only arrive through the post.  You then have to go to get the van, get it home, have the speedo and lights modified, and complete the UK registration formalities within the balance of the 14 days allowed, remembering that four of those days will be weekends when DVLA etc don't work.  Since the time allowed for all this under the new EC legislation is actually 30 days, and since all other UK insurers seem to be saying they can't comply, I am a little uneasy at what Motorcaravanwise is, actually, offering.  The more so since I understand they issue only a cover note, while what is required is the full certificate.  Therefore, if accepting any offer to insure a personal import before it is registered in UK, and especially if it is to be driven outside UK on that insurance, I can only advise you obtain written confirmation, before leaving home, from the insurer that they know and accept that the vehicle will be being a) driven outside the UK, and b) unregistered at that time, and c) that full comprehensive cover is being provided under both circumstances and, d) that they have the correct details of the vehicle so that they cannot subsequently claim they thought they had insured something else.  Then, if you have the misfortune to have an accident before the van is UK registered, even if the underwriter disallows the claim because the issuer had acted incorrectly, you can at least prove what the issuer knew, and should be able to recover (eventually) against their Professional Indemnity insurance.

Beware the standard German export insurance that comes with their temporary export plates, it is the most basic third party insurance only.  Also beware any insurer who tells you that you can apply the theft and accidental damage aspects of full comp insurance selectively, with just the third party risk being covered under the German scheme.  As above, make sure any such promise is confirmed in writing before you leave home, and make sure such confirmation is totally transparent as to what it says.  If it isn't quite clear what they are saying, it will be because they don't want to be clear.  Draw your own conclusions.

The most practical way round this at present seems to be to use an import agent with internationally authorised trade plates to get the van for you, and to register it on your behalf when it is in UK (or if a recognised trader to pre-register it), and deliver it to your home.  If doing this, it would probably be wise to go with the agent to actually buy the van, so that it is clear you are the purchaser, and possibly again to collect it, so that you can be sure all necessary warranties etc are properly registered before it leaves the dealership.

My final point concerns warranties.  If you buy abroad, you will get little to no warranty support from UK dealers, and probably little from the UK representative of the manufacturer - who are often just a UK dealership.  The one exception to the latter seems to be Burstner, whose UK staff claim to be directly employed by Burstner.  This is why a dealer near the channel is an advantage, because it is to them you will have to turn if there are problems.  This proviso does not apply to the base vehicle, where full warranty support will follow the vehicle, nor to the major components such as fridges, heaters etc.  

While on this subject, it must be remembered that the warranty is an offer from the manufacturer that is unenforceable under current UK law.  Where that manufacturer is based outside the UK, there is a chance that a UK dealer will have negotiated down the price he pays for the imported vans, whether LHD or RHD, by accepting the whole of the warranty risk himself.  This means, in effect, that you may have no redress against the warranty if the dealer ceases trading during the warranty period.  Strictly, under these circumstances, no warranty documents should be provided with the van, as they will not apply.  However, it does seem the lure of the manufacturers 5 years or so anti water ingress warranty for buyers may get the better of a seller's morals, so do check very carefully before you buy.

Final warranty point: in Germany the whole of the vehicle must be warranted for the same period which means that, since the base vehicles come with a Euro standard 2 years warranty, all appliances in the van are also covered for that period, but only in Germany.  If you buy in France or Belgium, you will not (so far as I know, but check) get this additional warranty on the appliances.  However, if the van has to be returned to the factory for serious defects to be remedied, it is the customer who has to arrange this and the warranties do not cover the costs.  Normally, this would have to be arranged via the dealer, so you would need to get the van to the dealer and he would then be responsible for getting it to the factory, or you'd have to take it there yourself by arrangement via the dealer.  This is why a good dealer, near to home, is so important when things go wrong, and why it is so important to stick to the reliable brands.  However, despite all this, substantial savings are possible by buying on the mainland so, as long as you keep a rainy day fund somewhere and don't just spend the savings, you will be very unlucky indeed, even after problems have been resolved, to have paid the equivalent of the price of an identical RHD van in UK.  Hope this helps, and sorry it's rather long, but simple it ain't!

[maggyd]

Big Momma - 2009-07-12 11:13 PM

 

Michele, I have owned a Swift Kontiki 665 (6 berth, 7.5 metre long) from new since 2004. I have never had any problems with it, mechanically or with build quality. The coincidence is that just today myself and my OH have decided to buy a brand new M'Home next year (Probably our last and the one to see us through and beyond retirement). We are looking at the Swift Kontiki 669 (Low Profile Island Bed model). Not that this will be the van to meet your needs but just to say that whilst there is a certain engine type I would not touch, I have never encountered a problem with my Fiat Ducato 2.8 Diesel Engine ( and I know that this predates all the current issues around the 'judder'), however, the comments were also around build quality and as I have said, never had a problem and will, all things being equal and Swift answering my Email about some optional extras I would like, I will buy another Swift Kontiki on the Fiat Ducato Base with the 3 Litre 160 Multijet engine.

 

It is good to ask for advice from the wealth of knowledge there is from members on this forum. Hopefully you will receive good unbiased advice in which to make a reasoned and informed judgement and choice.

 

 

You can only see as you find ! and I can second what B.M has just said we have never had any trouble with our 2003 KonTiki and the build quality of the fixtures and fitting are very good and well made, we looked at a lot of flimsy rubbish before we bough ours. I would never buy New though !! only my opinion but you lose out to much! ours was one year old when we bought it £13.000 less than when bought new and they was 7.000 mls on the clock.