Big Momma Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 As I have just mentioned in another post, I am now looking at purchasing a new Motorhome early next year. I have always had Manual Transmissions but am now considering whether to change to Automatic. However, I have no Mechanical or Technical knowledge so do not know the Pro's or Con's of an Automatic over a Manual. I would be grateful if those with the mechanical/technical Expertise could provide me with some advice. I do not know whether you will need any information on the vehicle itself but it will be a 3 Litre Diesel Multijet Power producing 157bhp. Vehicle Length 8.67 Metres, Gross weight 5000kg. many thanks for any advice and enlightnment *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Hi Big Momma, Automatic is much easier to drive of course, you have both hands on the steering wheel all the time and in traffic and hilly roads you don't have to think about what gear you need, just one pedal for go and the other to stop. If you have the torque converter controlled type the take off is nice and smooth and with practise you make it change gear when you want to (more or less), so, very good on wet grass traction wise. the other type is controlled with an 'electronic controll unit' which will also have manual clutchless over-ride when you want it, but in automatic it will run in the most economical gear. The torque converter type has no clutch to wear out, it drives on oil pressure, the 'E.C.U.' type has a single dry plate clutch which will wear out. My van is torque converter, my car is 'E.C.U' Give me the torque converter every time. I am disabled to I have to have automatic. P.S. torque converter uses more fuel, but not a lot......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Ranger - 2009-07-13 12:55 AM Hi Big Momma, Automatic is much easier to drive of course, you have both hands on the steering wheel all the time and in traffic and hilly roads you don't have to think about what gear you need, just one pedal for go and the other to stop. If you have the torque converter controlled type the take off is nice and smooth and with practise you make it change gear when you want to (more or less), so, very good on wet grass traction wise. the other type is controlled with an 'electronic controll unit' which will also have manual clutchless over-ride when you want it, but in automatic it will run in the most economical gear. The torque converter type has no clutch to wear out, it drives on oil pressure, the 'E.C.U.' type has a single dry plate clutch which will wear out. My van is torque converter, my car is 'E.C.U' Give me the torque converter every time. I am disabled to I have to have automatic. P.S. torque converter uses more fuel, but not a lot......... I also have a automatic and would like to know a bit more on how to use it . when stopping at traffic lights or queues of traffic do you leave it in drive with your foot on the brake ,or do you put it into neutral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Hi Pete, if it is a torque converter type avoid long periods stopped in drive as you may overheat the oil, and with the ECU type think of the wear on the clutch thrust bearing, so neutral again. Torque converter types do feed the oil through a part of the radiator to cool it but you can fit an extra oil cooler if you want to. You can use the torque converter type to hold you facing up hill on road junctions with no problems. The oil, ATF: Automatic Transmition Fluid, very rarely over heats, just don't push your luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 I have a new 3 L Fiat (yes Fiat) auto and it couldn`t be easier to drive (and reverse) Combined with cruise control it is the perfect solution for me. The only thing to remember is that with the comfortmatic system you have to use the handbrake for hill starts because you have no creep in drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messerschmitt owner Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 4petedaniel - 2009-07-13 6:37 AM I also have a automatic and would like to know a bit more on how to use it . when stopping at traffic lights or queues of traffic do you leave it in drive with your foot on the brake ,or do you put it into neutral? Ah, you're the person who blinds me with your brake light on all the time! How annoying is that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Good point Porky, glad you brought up the hand brake, I have to remember which one I am driving. ECU type hand brake for take-off on a hill or it runs back, torque converter holds its self on hill take-offs. One other thing Porky does yours have 'P' for 'park', locking up the drive shaft? My van does, but not the car, another reason why I prefer toprque converter type rather than the Electronic Control Unit. All very complicated bring back the horse!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Hi Moma, My choice would always be a manual box as I feel more "in control" but our new tardis is full auto with torque converter etc. Merc 5999 Kg. It drives well but does not change when I would manually change when in "relaxed" mode. Its always possible to waggle the selector sideways to prompt it to change up or down. But these automatic boxes have been around for many years and are probably as reliable as a manual box - and no clutch to wear out. I have got used to it now and you can concentrate more on other idiots on the road! Enjoy C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Porky - 2009-07-13 9:43 AM I have a new 3 L Fiat (yes Fiat) auto and it couldn`t be easier to drive (and reverse) Combined with cruise control it is the perfect solution for me. The only thing to remember is that with the comfortmatic system you have to use the handbrake for hill starts because you have no creep in drive. I knew that this would generate some further questions so I please beg your patience. 1. The vehicle that I am looking at getting does describe the Auto Transmission as 'Comformatic' - What does this mean in lay man terms ? 2. Torque Converter - Does this come as a standard option or do you have to ask for it ? If an extra, how much would I be looking at paying ? Many thanks *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Some say the Comfortmatic is the best way of avoiding the clutch judder found on manual versions. Look at the clutch judder threads on here for further information. If you want a Fiat then the Comfortmatic seems to be the way to go. If you want one next year you may need to think about ordering one now as they are in relatively short supply and there could be a long waiting list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 A torque converter is the device used to control the transfer of power between the engine and gearbox in place of a clutch. So any traditional auto box will have one. The other type of box is little more than a manual with electronic and hydraulic bits doing the job of changing gear for you. The Fiat comfort-matic is one such box and in my experience it works brilliantly. You don't get any 'creep' like a conventional auto in fact it does not move at all until you press the accelerator. But, and it's a large but... you can roll forwards or backwards when you release the foot brake. There is a momentary hill-holder function for a second or so when you are stopped on an incline to give you some assistance but this is not particularly consistent or really useful in most cases so you should use the hand brake just like a manual! The hill holder is part of the ESP package that is fitted on all comfort-matics. In our large panel vans we have several 3.0 manuals and one comfort matic. In most cases the fuel consumption has been less than one mpg worse, sometimes the comfort matic is up to 1 mpg better. The gearbox seems to hold on to 3rd gear for a little too long before changing to 4th when driving in traffic but otherwise it is brilliant; even changing down a gear or two under braking just like you would! Nick PS We are still being quoted 10 weeks for standard vans from the factory and 13 weeks for anything out of the ordinary (that includes comfort mastics) Chassis cabs should take no more than 13 weeks from dealer order to delivery at coachbuilder or UK dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Many thanks to everyone, believe it or not I now actually understand a little more than I did about Automatic Transmissions and Comfort-Matic thanks to your simple explanations. I am sure I will let you know if I go ahead and take the plunge, still working out the advantages and disadvantages of changing what we already have which is fully paid for against getting back in to long term debt *-) Strange thing is, last year it was me suggesting the possible upgrade and we eventually decided to keep what we had. Now it's the OH who has suggested it and not that I am the suspicious sort you understand but if she is willing to let me have a new 'Dream Machine' (although technically it will of course be 'ours') what is she after............................ ;-) or should I just not look a gift horse in the mouth or the other old chestnut, if something looks too good to be true it probably is >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted July 13, 2009 Author Share Posted July 13, 2009 Okay so here is my next question to pose to you, sorry that it is not about the Thread title but it is related to my musings over do we buy a new van or not. Our current van is 7.5 metres long and the new one is 8.67 metres long (Tag Axle). I am wondering just how restrictive this would be to get pitches on sites, not so much on UK CC or C&CC sites as I have seen plenty of RV's much larger accommodated. But what about on European sites (France, Spain, Italy etc). We are going to Spain in 2 weeks so will be able to look for ourselves at the sites we will be using, however, would appreciate some more advice on other areas from you well seasoned travellers ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 Just a little useless quote on automatic gear boxes. My cars box is refered to in the hand book as A.M.T. Automated Manual Transmission. It is a Colt CZ2 built by Mercedes Benz in their Dutch factory where they build the Smart Car, all the running parts are from the Smart For Four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Not a response to your question, so my apologies for that, but your proposed van does seem very large for front wheel drive.I was looking at an (apparently) similar size Burstner a few days ago, and it struck me how insignificant those little front wheels looked, relative to the size of the whole caboodle.I know they make them, but I seriously question whether such long vans, with tag axles, can really be shifted satisfactorily by just those little front tyres, that also have to do the steering.Imagine trying to decamp from a wet, slippery, grassy, site. Have you tried standing well back and viewing the thing side on? All I am trying to say is, does it look right to you, 'cos it don't to me? Old adage about if it looks wrong, it probably is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 I think you are right there Brian, my last van was a big Autotrail automatic front wheel drive VW 2.4 Five cylinder job. Early morning dew on the grass and went NO WHERE, even parked on plastic non skid pads, just shot them out back. Had to make planks with tyre grip on top side, and mud grips under side. Have also got stuck on a rainy day half way up Porlock Hill, no traction, had to back down, turn around and drive up in reverse. would not have another front wheel drive. Plus work on the engine costs more being in side ways making some things hard to get at, like the cam belt. My cam belt full kit change only cost me £150. Did it while I popped next door cafe for an 'All-day beakfast'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Going back to the original question of auto or manual, if I were lucky enough to be considering a new 'van it would definitely be an auto shifted manual. No more of that pumping the clutch pedal up and down to change gear or pulling up at traffic lights and wondering if its worth shifting to neutral, just pull up and pull on the handbrake, let the ox do its magic. I've driven plenty of the ASM type boxes now from most of the major players (not yet driven the Iveco version though) and by far the best in my opinion is the Fiat comfortmatic. I was always impressed with the Ford Durashift too but they discontinues it apparently because of reliability issues. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaleg Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I had Auto clutch fitted to my van (couldn't get an auto on what i wanted) Best of both worlds really, it does take some getting used to though, and it can't be rushed. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonB Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 We went for the Fiat Comfortmatic box in April for a variety of reasons. Better payload and storage facilities in our van than the equivalent Merc version were two reasons but the main one of course was to avoid the Fiat manual 3.0L gearbox reverse problems. The Comfortmatic box has been a pleasant surprise and far better than I was anticipating - once you get used to not having a 'park' position or the torque converter holding you stopped on hills that is. Our 'other' car is a BMW 7 Series with a sublime auto box so when I say I was pleasantly surprised I did have something to compare the Comfortmatic with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tramper Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 FWIW we have just changed vans and now have a Merc Sprintshift, which is one of those Automated Manual jobbies. Done perhaps a couple of hundred miles but have so far been very impressed, and have basically just stuck it in Auto - let it make the decisions. It judges how heavy your foot is and changes gear accordingly, and being in no real hurry I was well pleased to achieve 28mpg on my first fill up - that for a 2.7 isn't bad as there was not much motorway work. I like the no-creep bit when stationary and it just means you have to use the handbrake like you would with a manual. Not so keen on the lack of a 'Park' section as this van, like many others, has to have the handbrake off to swivel the drivers seat, so this means leaving it in Reverse, or First gear when parked. Plus wheel chocks. Overall then I do like it, and although this is a bigger van than our previous two it is much easier when driving round the narrow lanes - One less thing to think about. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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