A couple of novice France Questions - Reverse polarity & Tap connectors

[martin h]

My wife and I are going to the Loire Valley & Champagne region in September and I have read, but can’t remember where (and I tried the search function but it doesn’t seem to work), that on some sites in France the polarity may be reversed. We have an 2006 Auto-Trail Dakota with the EC200 PSU which does have a reverse polarity warning light, but it doesn’t say what to do if reverse polarity is detected. Any ideas please?

 

Also what type of tap connector is required in France please?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mel B]

Hi Martin - welcome to the mad house. :->

 

You need a couple of French adaptors, one you will need to keep as it is, the other you will need to swap the wiring around on to make it reverse the polarity, make sure you mark them up clearly so you know which is which. Then, when you plug in your electric cable with the normal adaptor on, if it shows a reversed polarity on your PSU, just swap the adaptor for the reversed one, and it will put it back to 'normal'.

 

Tap connectors ... unfortunately there are no standards when it comes to these! We have, over the years, collected quite a few different types. Some are large screw ones, some small screw ones, some just push button ones with no screw thread at all and no easy way of securing a hose ... these are wonderful ... whilst trying to keep the hose on you usually get drenched!!! If you get some Hozelock connectors, you can then buy the different sized screw on fittings, one in particular we only managed to actually get in France in a garden centre. You also need one of those rubber type ones that you push onto a tap and then tighten the jubilee clip to hold it on, unfortunately though this doesn't always work so make sure you have a container in case you have to pour the water in manually - a collapsible bucket and one of those cheap black fuel filler funnels work well (push out the metal mesh filter though), or a small watering can with a piece of hose pipe on the end to stick in the hole works well too.

[doonhamer]

An extra length of cable and a 2 pin 3 way adaptor can also be useful as the aires with free electricity tend to be busy. In addition to the basic 20m cable we carry a 40m extension and haven't been disappointed yet.

[BGD]

You do not need a tap connector in France.

Just a bottle opener. :-D

[Derek Uzzell]

Martin

 

There are a good few sites in France that still employ a traditional French-style plug/socket at the 230V service-pillar, rather than the 'CEE' connection that's the norm in the UK. So, to connect to a mains hook-up on those sites, you'll need a suitable 'Continental adapter lead' that most UK caravan/motorhome accessory shops should keep on their shelves.

 

Regarding reverse polarity, I'm not sure whether a 'correction adapter' is commercially available. I think most people make their own and, for simplicity's sake, it's easiest to use a short length of hook-up cable with the same CEE-type connectors each end as your present long UK-standard hook-up cable, but with the live and neutral connections 'reversed' in one of the connectors. That way, whatever the type of connection - CEE or 'Continental' - at the 230V service-pillar, you can reverse the polarity of the supply at the motorhome end.

 

These are a couple of earlier relevant threads:

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=16369&start=1

 

http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=14639&posts=19

 

As Mel B warns, there's no certainty as to what type of taps a Continental campsite will have, though taps with threaded outlets are normally to UK 'garden hose' standard. Like Mel, I've a collection of different hose-to-tap adapters, but I still come across new tap designs. As a last resort, using duct tape to attach the hose to the tap can prove effective.

[alan k]

I bought my tap connectors in France from a super ironmongers, just like we used to have here, all brown boxes on shelves very reminiscent of the two Ronnies.

 

Even more surprising the connectors are a combination of 1/2 ins and 3/4 ins BSP thread, so much for the Metric system. I also have a connector for taps without threads with a jubilee clip. So far throughout France and Italy I've only used the two threaded connectors.

 

Quite alot of people seem to carry a watering can for those days when nothing fits

 

alan

[malc d]

martin h - 2009-08-10 7:15 PM

 

My wife and I are going to the Loire Valley & Champagne region in September and I have read, but can’t remember where (and I tried the search function but it doesn’t seem to work), that on some sites in France the polarity may be reversed. We have an 2006 Auto-Trail Dakota with the EC200 PSU which does have a reverse polarity warning light, but it doesn’t say what to do if reverse polarity is detected. Any ideas please?

 

Also what type of tap connector is required in France please?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

These are two of our adaptors for France. Bought from camping shops.

The one on the right is " as bought " and is O.K. to use if the polarity is correct.

 

If we get a warning that the polarity is reversed I use the one on the left.

It's the same kind of adaptor but I swopped the negative and positive ( blue and brown) wires over, and marked it to look suitably different to the other one.

 

I hope this helps.

 

[johnsandywhite]

*-) If you were really concerned about reverse polarity? Why not just turn the plug connection around? Not need to carry 2 cable connectors. *-)

[Philman]

JSW, are you sure that the French one can be turned round. The German version can.

 

Phil.

[malc d]

johnsandywhite - 2009-08-11 12:46 PM

 

*-) If you were really concerned about reverse polarity? Why not just turn the plug connection around? Not need to carry 2 cable connectors. *-)

 

 

You can't always " just turn the plug around" - sometimes the edge of the electrical 'box' is in the way.

I don't find it a chore carrying two anyway - unlikely to put me over the weight limit.

 

:-|

[johnsandywhite]

Philman - 2009-08-11 1:15 PM

 

JSW, are you sure that the French one can be turned round. The German version can.

 

Phil.

 

:D Not 100%. (lol) (lol)

[gadjo]

I was concerned about this the first time we went abroad and rang Sargents who supply the electric stuff for Auto Trail, they told me nothing to worry about everything will work just the same, so I don't any more, and just get on with having a good time (lol)

[johnsandywhite]

gadjo - 2009-08-11 4:05 PM

 

I was concerned about this the first time we went abroad and rang Sargents who supply the electric stuff for Auto Trail, they told me nothing to worry about everything will work just the same, so I don't any more, and just get on with having a good time (lol)

 

B-) That's the point I hae ALWAYS tried to make on ALL the Forums. The Microwave will still work, the lights will not work the wrong way round. The ONLY time there will be any problem is if the Van is wired incorrectly. IMH&HO. ;-)

[malc d]

It's true that things will still work, but as I understand it, electrical appliances MAY remain 'live' even when switched off if the polarity has been reversed ?

 

 

:-(

[AliB]

It usually takes 2 to cause an accident or incident. Sometime ago I worked as a consultant for insurance claims.

Being called to a house fire the fire brigade had already established the blaze started from a Hifi unit.

A couple had left the Hifi connected to the wall socket when they were away on holiday. The Hifi caught fire and the subsequent damage to the building was significant.

Examining the scene revealed a lump of molten plastic and circuit board that was once a Hifi. Further investigation of the charred wall and the power socket showed that it had been incorrectly wired with the live and neutral reversed.

The Hifi had worked with no problem for some time but simply switching the unit off had not totally disconnected the power. Some other fault had developed within the Hifi, with the resulting combination of 2 faults equalling disaster. The Hifi was too badly melted to pinpoint the problem but you can guess the view of the insurance company on the DIY mains wiring within the household.

 

Hence I advise the observation of correct polarity connections. I use a CEE connector with a transparent casing for my change-over adapter. It looks different form the standard connector and you can confirm how it has been wired.

 

On our recent trip to Germany at one site the hook-up cable was connected behind a locked box. The site owner was gone before I had time to check the polarity. It seems more sensible to fit the change-over adapter at the van end of the hook-up cable with male/female CEE connectors.

 

[lennyhb]

malc d - 2009-08-11 5:18 PM

 

It's true that things will still work, but as I understand it, electrical appliances MAY remain 'live' even when switched off if the polarity has been reversed ?

 

 

:-(

 

Only really dangerous if you have a metal bodied appliance & you had a fault where live shorted to the case & the earth connection was disconnected as well.

Not a situation you are likely to get into as most electrical equipment we use these days are plastic bodied.

 

If you have switched mains sockets you could check to see if they are double pole switched & if only single pole switched change them for either double pole switched or unswitched ones.

 

Personal I wouldn't worry about it providing your van has an RCD. Most vans have an RCD, I say most as personal imports won't have one, if your van doesn't have one it's a quick easy job to fit one.

[Brian Kirby]

johnsandywhite - 2009-08-11 12:46 PM *-) If you were really concerned about reverse polarity? Why not just turn the plug connection around? Not need to carry 2 cable connectors. *-)

Because, due to the single male earth pin, it doesn't work in a standard French socket.  German pattern sockets yes, because they have two side located earth contacts, but not those sockets with the male earth pin.

[Brian Kirby]

lennyhb - 2009-08-11 5:48 PM

malc d - 2009-08-11 5:18 PM It's true that things will still work, but as I understand it, electrical appliances MAY remain 'live' even when switched off if the polarity has been reversed ? :-(

Only really dangerous if you have a metal bodied appliance & you had a fault where live shorted to the case & the earth connection was disconnected as well. Not a situation you are likely to get into as most electrical equipment we use these days are plastic bodied. If you have switched mains sockets you could check to see if they are double pole switched & if only single pole switched change them for either double pole switched or unswitched ones. Personal I wouldn't worry about it providing your van has an RCD. Most vans have an RCD, I say most as personal imports won't have one, if your van doesn't have one it's a quick easy job to fit one.

But just re-read all the provisos you have inserted into your highly conditional answer, and then ask yourself why you needed to insert them.  Rather than travel with a continuing debate over whether this or that condition has been met, just test the polarity, verify the earth, and correct as necessary.  It is just so much simpler, and you eliminate all the provisos, and the debate, and the risks.

The only unconditional part of your answer concerns personal imports, where you say they won't have RCDs.  Well, ours is, and it has, and it is original equipment.  It also has DP circuit breakers, and so is designed for a world where polarity is unimportant.  However, we use UK sourced equipment in it, so I still check and correct polarity, and that all important earth.

[Brian Kirby]

malc d - 2009-08-11 12:08 PM

martin h - 2009-08-10 7:15 PM My wife and I are going to the Loire Valley & Champagne region in September and I have read, but can’t remember where (and I tried the search function but it doesn’t seem to work), that on some sites in France the polarity may be reversed. We have an 2006 Auto-Trail Dakota with the EC200 PSU which does have a reverse polarity warning light, but it doesn’t say what to do if reverse polarity is detected. Any ideas please? Also what type of tap connector is required in France please? Thanks in advance.

These are two of our adaptors for France. Bought from camping shops. The one on the right is " as bought " and is O.K. to use if the polarity is correct. If we get a warning that the polarity is reversed I use the one on the left. It's the same kind of adaptor but I swopped the negative and positive ( blue and brown) wires over, and marked it to look suitably different to the other one. I hope this helps.

But these will not deal with the situation where a CEE socket is reversed, and many are.  Far better, in my opinion, to do as Derek suggests and make the correction at the van end, where a single correction lead will then deal with reversed polarity whatever connector type is used.

[Mel B]

One assumption has been made by those who suggest it is not necessary to use a connector to correct when a reversed polarity situation is present ... that the motorhome has been wired correctly and the sockets are okay! 8-)

 

With the 'questionable' quality of some motorhomes, that's not a risk I'd take ... even on the best 'vans mistakes can be made.

 

As has been suggested, you could make up a small lead, ie like your normal one but only a foot or two long with the normal ends on, which has the wires reversed to make a reversed polarity corrector. The problem with this though is that it will dangle, either from the post or the motorhome depending on which end you use it, and water could get into the connector join.

 

For the sake of a few quid, be safe - make a connector that can correct reversed polarity and use it.

[lennyhb]

Brian Kirby - 2009-08-11 6:03 PM

 

The only unconditional part of your answer concerns personal imports, where you say they won't have RCDs.  Well, ours is, and it has, and it is original equipment.  It also has DP circuit breakers, and so is designed for a world where polarity is unimportant. 

 

The Hobby Caravan I imported from Germany a few years ago had a DP 10A MCB but no RCD.

 

The Hymer Motorhome I imported from Belgium last year had a DP 10A MCB but no RCD.

My Hymer is RHD & came with UK spec. i.e. 13A mains sockets full english handbooks but no RCD.

[Brian Kirby]

lennyhb - 2009-08-11 6:38 PM

Brian Kirby - 2009-08-11 6:03 PM The only unconditional part of your answer concerns personal imports, where you say they won't have RCDs.  Well, ours is, and it has, and it is original equipment.  It also has DP circuit breakers, and so is designed for a world where polarity is unimportant. 

The Hobby Caravan I imported from Germany a few years ago had a DP 10A MCB but no RCD. The Hymer Motorhome I imported from Belgium last year had a DP 10A MCB but no RCD. My Hymer is RHD & came with UK spec. i.e. 13A mains sockets full english handbooks but no RCD.

Yep, and the Burstner we imported in 2005 (German made - imported from France) had no RCD, but our Hobby (German made - but imported from Germany) has one. 

I think that is my main point, that it is pretty much impossible to state with certainty what one may encounter in terms of installed equipment, the quality of the installation, or what may await you on sites. 

That is why, however small the real risks may be, and however stupid someone may need to have been to create them, I always err on the side of caution, and test for, and correct, polarity and earth defects, and urge others to do so as well.  Funny old world, ain't it?  :-)

[rolandrat]

reverse polarity can cause the 240 hotplate on/off to glow red when in the off position if you have that type of cooker installed as current travels down the earth connection. It is always best to check the polarity before connecting to the motorhome. Some people say that using the reverse polarity doesn't harm the electronic control equipment fitted to regulate the power but I beg to differ because it can.

[lennyhb]

Brian,

 

This is just an observation I don't want to get into a debate about it.

 

If you make up a reverse wired lead technically you infringing the IEE wiring regulations that is why you will not find any for sale.

Also the legality of reverse polarity change over devices that are on the market is debatable.

This just another indecent where the regulations are an ass.

 

[Brian Kirby]

Dead right, but then regulations can only be drafted in terms of normality.  The "problem" only arises when we take our IEE wired installations to non IEE countries - where they think our regulations are potty anyhow.  Yer can't win!