4petedaniel Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 I have recently brought a cheap 15.6" 12 volt TV For under £100 I have been told that I now need a voltage stabiliser, the only one I can see is £46. I think at that price I will take a risk and run it off the battery. any one got any views on the subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syd Posted August 21, 2009 Share Posted August 21, 2009 We blew out TV up without one, they are pretty sensitive to over voltage. have got one now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWO Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 hi there we bought the one from amperor , which is £39 I think. It does the job when we are off the mains ok But I did notice once that we had connected the telly up to the wrong socket so it was being fed direct from the lesiure batteries !! The telly is still working ok so I just wonder how much you need the stabiliser?? One post, two very different replies, live is too complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 HWO - 2009-08-22 8:15 AM hi there we bought the one from amperor , which is £39 I think. It does the job when we are off the mains ok But I did notice once that we had connected the telly up to the wrong socket so it was being fed direct from the lesiure batteries !! The telly is still working ok so I just wonder how much you need the stabiliser?? One post, two very different replies, live is too complicated. That's my question How much do you need the stabiliser? as it is now £46 from Amperor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 All depends on the TV and how good the input supply circuitry is. My suggestion would be with a cheap TV it may not be very good. an the 12 volts suply input is designd to work with the manufacturer supplied 12 volt plug in or mains adapter. Problems often arise as the battery voltage drops as it discharges, and most TV's will cut out while useful capacity is still available from the battery. The other issue is voltage spikes and over voltage caused by say charging the battery wher it can rise to 14.8 volts which may be above the specificationsof th TV 12 vlt input which might only be rated say 11v to 13 volts and not immune to voltage spikes on vehicles when the engine is running or started. The way round this is the use of a 12 volt to 12 volt converter such as mentioned (stabiliser) where the input range covers a wider range from say 9 volts to 16 volts and is immune to voltage spikes and will block them from the output stabilised 12 volts. It also eliminates any unforseen circumstanmces where the TV might be damaged by a dropping voltage from a battery or increased voltage where internal circuitry is stressed reducing life but not an immediate failure. As mentioned, all depends if the 12volt input was designed for vehicle use or not, some are, some are not even though they may appear to work. Also with some which are they are of poor quality and reliability is questionable when used on a vehicle supply directly if voltage fluctuations exist. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 Brambles - 2009-08-22 10:40 AM All depends on the TV and how good the input supply circuitry is. My suggestion would be with a cheap TV it may not be very good. an the 12 volts suply input is designd to work with the manufacturer supplied 12 volt plug in or mains adapter. Problems often arise as the battery voltage drops as it discharges, and most TV's will cut out while useful capacity is still available from the battery. The other issue is voltage spikes and over voltage caused by say charging the battery wher it can rise to 14.8 volts which may be above the specificationsof th TV 12 vlt input which might only be rated say 11v to 13 volts and not immune to voltage spikes on vehicles when the engine is running or started. The way round this is the use of a 12 volt to 12 volt converter such as mentioned (stabiliser) where the input range covers a wider range from say 9 volts to 16 volts and is immune to voltage spikes and will block them from the output stabilised 12 volts. It also eliminates any unforseen circumstanmces where the TV might be damaged by a dropping voltage from a battery or increased voltage where internal circuitry is stressed reducing life but not an immediate failure. As mentioned, all depends if the 12volt input was designed for vehicle use or not, some are, some are not even though they may appear to work. Also with some which are they are of poor quality and reliability is questionable when used on a vehicle supply directly if voltage fluctuations exist. Jon. Very pleased with my new TV Picture outstanding and as it cost less than £100 I feel that it would be worth the risk . But I would be sorry the lose my Sky Digibox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Check your TV power supply if it is unregulated you will not need a stabiliser. Most TV's use unregulated supplies with the regulator in the TV. Syd may have just been unlucky and brought a TV that didn't have regulators built in or the TV blew for another reason. The power supply will have a straight horizontal line above a dotted line after the voltage if it is unregulated. If the TV was under a £100 & a regulator is £46 try it without if if blows up in the first year take it back under warranty just don't mention you weren't using the supply that came with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 "The power supply will have a straight horizontal line above a dotted line after the voltage if it is unregulated. " This just means it is a DC supply, not necessarily regulated. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Jon, A straight line over a dotted line always used to indicate unregulated & a regulated supply had just a straight line. I've just done some checking & under current EU regs they no longer differentiate between regulated & unregulated just ac & dc so I stand corrected. For the OP for a rough check measure the voltage on the power supply with it disconnected from the TV if it's 14/15V it's probably unregulated, I say probably as some switched supplies only give the correct voltage under load fairly rare these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 lennyhb - 2009-08-22 7:59 PM Jon, A straight line over a dotted line always used to indicate unregulated & a regulated supply had just a straight line. I've just done some checking & under current EU regs they no longer differentiate between regulated & unregulated just ac & dc so I stand corrected. For the OP for a rough check measure the voltage on the power supply with it disconnected from the TV if it's 14/15V it's probably unregulated, I say probably as some switched supplies only give the correct voltage under load fairly rare these days. Now I am confused as I did the voltage check as suggested only to find that the power supply give a reading of 11.19volts. I have seen a varable12 volt staberliser in the Maplins web site that will plug in to a cigerette lighter for under £12 it will only take up to 1 Amp and as the power supply with the TV is only 2 Amps I would suspect it would do the job. Next problem how do I protect my Diggi box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 I think the 12 volt stabilser in maplins you are mentioning, I am only guessing, is a regulator and just limits the volts to 12 volts max. There will be a small volt drop with it and also at 1 Amps if you need 2 is just not suitable. Sorry! Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 The Maplin unit only regulates to 12 volts output when the input voltage exceeds 16 volts, I suspect your TV won't like 16 volts up it. As for the suggestion to use it as is and if it goes pop take it back under warranty you need to be aware that a lot of places will soon establish that the backlight units have burned out through excessive voltage and may well come back to you over it. That of course is apart from the fact that this would be an illegal and immoral thing to do. The choice is do you commit another £50 to protect your sub £100 investment or do you feel brave enough to risk it and if it does go pop fork out another sub £100 for a replacement and then buy the stabiliser. To my mind its a no brainer, option 1 will cost you about £150 and you have a safe and working TV while option 2 may only cost you the price of the initial TV or it might cost you twice the price of the TV plus the £50 or so for the stabiliser. I'm no mathematician but to me option 1 is likely to be the cheapest. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 4petedaniel - 2009-08-21 8:46 PM I have recently brought a cheap 15.6" 12 volt TV For under £100 I have been told that I now need a voltage stabiliser, the only one I can see is £46. I think at that price I will take a risk and run it off the battery. any one got any views on the subject? Post the make and model details and I will see if I can check out the specifications for the 12 volt input circuitry. At the moment I also agree option one of Dave's. It also gives you a nice 12 volt to 12 volt stabilsed supply which you may find usefull to power other things in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Hi Jon The model is MATSUI M15DIGB01 It is surprisingly good for THe Price I will be very happy if it is regulated as well. Do you happen to know if a Pace 100 digibox would be safe. to use on the battery or should I now purchase a regulator for that as well or maybe I could run the two off the same regulator if the load is not exceded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Unfortuately I cannot find the full spec for the TV. Matsui being brand name owned by the DSGI group (Dixons Group). I have been unable to trace the manufacturer of the model. I would certainly not connect the Pace unit to the vehicle supply if there is any likely hood of low voltage ( battery voltage low and needing charged, or to the battery whilst it is under charge ( on mains hook up). Pace internal power supplies are reknowned for being unreliable. So my recommendation is to use a 12 volt to 12 volt stabilised supply which can supply both the TV and the digibox connected or to separate stabilised supplies. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 Advice taken Will have to find the best Staberliser at the best price Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 The amperor ADP-90DC-12 has a max output of 70 watts so you might be pusing it for both the TV and Pace unit. I am guessing TV is about 50 watts although published short form spec gives 100 watts but I think that is way way wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 We run all our tv kit off a 150 Watt inverter. Satellite/DVD and Freeview box. We have 15" LCD T/V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Running of a 150watt invertor ( 12vdc to 240 ac) and using your existing power supplies is certainly another way to go. Also gives you a lot more uses like battery chargers for cameras and a host of other uses. Probably a lot cheaper as well. Never thought of this earlier. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 I already have a 240 volt ac to 12 volt 500 watt DC inverter would it work reversed I, E put the 12 volt in the 12 volt outlet and the supply to the Tv and Digi box from the inlet? I have been checking the prices of the 12 volt regulated supply units and they are priced from £38.85 to £55.75 for the same thing. it pays to shop around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 4petedaniel - 2009-08-24 8:25 AM I already have a 240 volt ac to 12 volt 500 watt DC inverter would it work reversed I, E put the 12 volt in the 12 volt outlet and the supply to the Tv and Digi box from the inlet? I have been checking the prices of the 12 volt regulated supply units and they are priced from £38.85 to £55.75 for the same thing. it pays to shop around. ????? Do you mean a 240 vac to 12 volt dc switch mode power supply? Then no it would not work reversed. If you mean a 12 volt dc to 240volt 500 watt invertor, then plug your tv's 240volt power supply etc into the 240 volt ac output from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Brambles - 2009-08-24 9:26 AM 4petedaniel - 2009-08-24 8:25 AM I already have a 240 volt ac to 12 volt 500 watt DC inverter would it work reversed I, E put the 12 volt in the 12 volt outlet and the supply to the Tv and Digi box from the inlet? I have been checking the prices of the 12 volt regulated supply units and they are priced from £38.85 to £55.75 for the same thing. it pays to shop around. ????? Do you mean a 240 vac to 12 volt dc switch mode power supply? Then no it would not work reversed. If you mean a 12 volt dc to 240volt 500 watt invertor, then plug your tv's 240volt power supply etc into the 240 volt ac output from it. Sorry It must have been one of my madder moments Of course I could have used the inverter the right way round . my problem is that the batteries are in the engine compartment not easy to access. What if I now put a lead & plug on the inverter on the 12 volt end and plug it in to the 12 volt plug in my camper any idea what the loading would be as the inverter came with 4mm cable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Sorry It must have been one of my madder moments Of course I could have used the inverter the right way round . my problem is that the batteries are in the engine compartment not easy to access. What if I now put a lead & plug on the inverter on the 12 volt end and plug it in to the 12 volt plug in my camper any idea what the loading would be as the inverter came with 4mm cable. Oh gosh. Why are ideas and questions never guite a simple answer. In theory, yes you can plug into the cigarrette lighter, but most cigarrete lighters are only designed for 15Amps to 20 Amps intermittantly. Continuously is about 5 to 10 Amps max and anything above 5 Amps they do actually start to warm up a lot because they usually or often have steel contacts/connections. 5 amps at 12 volts equates to 60 watts which may not be emnough as this also has to power the olsses in the power supplies and in the invertor. So answer is yes and no depending on quality of invertor, power required and NEVER using above 60 or so watts even under fault conditions (a fuse could take care of that).. Sorry I am sort of hinking aloud here but in writing. Another problem is invertors can take big spikes of power and the battery can cope with this but the wiring will cause voltage drops due to resistance, hence 4mm cable for invertor wiring. It should not be too hard to take the wiring through the bulkhead to the battery. Just make sure cable is heavy gauge and well insulated, with a suitable fuse at battery end of positive. (40 Amps). This will protect the positive cable should a short in the wiring through the bulk head etc ever occurs. You should already have a large fuse fitted on the leisure battery. SO! My suggestion - 6 to 10mm cable from battery to area equipment will be located. A 40 Amp fuse at battery end. However this could be down sized to only allow for say 150 watts then 15 Amp fuse would be better. Does this all make sense... been a long day today. You may also be able to utilise the existing liesure wiring as long as it is heavy gauge as suggested, (at least 6mm) but probably is a lot ligher if only supplying lights etc. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted August 24, 2009 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 Brambles - 2009-08-24 6:58 PM Sorry It must have been one of my madder moments Of course I could have used the inverter the right way round . my problem is that the batteries are in the engine compartment not easy to access. What if I now put a lead & plug on the inverter on the 12 volt end and plug it in to the 12 volt plug in my camper any idea what the loading would be as the inverter came with 4mm cable. Oh gosh. Why are ideas and questions never guite a simple answer. In theory, yes you can plug into the cigarrette lighter, but most cigarrete lighters are only designed for 15Amps to 20 Amps intermittantly. Continuously is about 5 to 10 Amps max and anything above 5 Amps they do actually start to warm up a lot because they usually or often have steel contacts/connections. 5 amps at 12 volts equates to 60 watts which may not be emnough as this also has to power the olsses in the power supplies and in the invertor. So answer is yes and no depending on quality of invertor, power required and NEVER using above 60 or so watts even under fault conditions (a fuse could take care of that).. Sorry I am sort of hinking aloud here but in writing. Another problem is invertors can take big spikes of power and the battery can cope with this but the wiring will cause voltage drops due to resistance, hence 4mm cable for invertor wiring. It should not be too hard to take the wiring through the bulkhead to the battery. Just make sure cable is heavy gauge and well insulated, with a suitable fuse at battery end of positive. (40 Amps). This will protect the positive cable should a short in the wiring through the bulk head etc ever occurs. You should already have a large fuse fitted on the leisure battery. SO! My suggestion - 6 to 10mm cable from battery to area equipment will be located. A 40 Amp fuse at battery end. However this could be down sized to only allow for say 150 watts then 15 Amp fuse would be better. Does this all make sense... been a long day today. You may also be able to utilise the existing liesure wiring as long as it is heavy gauge as suggested, (at least 6mm) but probably is a lot ligher if only supplying lights etc. Jon. Hi Again Jon Follow your Idea. The problem is that with autosleepers there is no access through the lockers to get at the Batteries if there was I would have installed a second battery plus the inverter which I have had for a long time and not used because of this lack of access. The only cables that I have the abillity to get too are only about 2.5mm now I dont know what the carring cappacity of 2.5mm cable is at 12 volts 2but I suspect it not to be very high. about 8watts would guess and yet I can run the TV from it with out any problems so I am quite confussed I would like to know what is amperage of a 500 12VDCto 240v AC Inverter is. The load of the TV and Digi box together would not be more than 4amps I would guess. some one correct me if I am wrong. So I have alowed for 48watts plus the inverter load which could put me in the loading range of the cigar lighter which is again feed with a small size cable. maybe I should invest in a clamp on meter and try it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 The current carrying capacity of 2.5mm sqaure cross sectional area is about 25 Amps with an insulatiom temp range of 70 deg C. I would not run close to this though and stick to about 15 Amps. If it is 2.5mm Dia, stick to about 20 Amps as a guide line. The probem comes from the length of the cable and it's resistance when using an invertor - the invertor takes spikes of current and these create spikes of voltage drop in the cable. You mention cigarette socket, is this connected to the engine battery, as I would not want to drain anything from the engine battery, Leave that for the engine stating etc.... why create additional problems like a flat engine battery. If you are only going to stick to 60 watts or so than there should be no problem connecting to your existing wiring from locker batteries, unless the invertor has a high inrush current when 1st switching on.... it should if it not an ancient one have what they call soft start and not have a massive in rush, but as it is a 500 watt job it may well want to take a spike of 40 Amps but this will be a very short spike and unless quick blow fuses are used (automotive fuses are slow blow) should not be a problem. A case of try it and see. Main test is if it works and cables do not run anything more than warm. If you have cig. socket connected to leisure then it could be used as long as power is below 60 watts continuous, but you will most likely get warm and ideally should be replaced with a better quality suitable 12volt socket and plug. The main problem here being extra volts drop through the Cigarette socket and risk of a bad connection when it may suddenly overheat the plug used. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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