libby Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Not a M/H comment but someons asked recently. My Grandson has just replied as follows ... "Whether WiFi is available in the rooms depends upon the university. But if it were to be provided by the university it would be free. At Southampton we all had broadband Internet ports in the room, which we could plug into for free, and free WiFi is provided on the main University campus, so long as you had a laptop with WiFi capability. My laptop has it's wireless device inbuilt, as do most new laptops these days." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Being an old bugger and a pedant...........maybe you could remind said lad that it was NOT "free". It was simply that other taxpayers, and not him, were paying for that service for him to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Certainly is not it costs around £100 at UCL and Kings for LAN connection for instance. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertGS Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 With respect to BGD, I think that he is remembering the halycon days when only really bright people went to university, around 5% if memory serves, and it was free, including a nice flat in a hall of residence.Tuition fees this year are over £3000 and then there's accommodation and all the other living expenses. Those students not lucky enough to have rich parents and who have to take out student loans can graduate with debts of over £20,000.This wouldn't be too bad if they walked into a top job but unfortunately many of them are people with degrees in Mickey Mouse subjects from Mickey Mouse 'universities' who would have been far better doing an apprenticeship or starting work at 18 in a job with some measure of promotion and salary increases. In the three years that they would have been at university they would have earned tens of thousands of pounds and not had to borrow over £20K. Do the maths! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Oh dear I can see this thread going down the chip on shoulder route. Even with students running up huge loans their tuition and accomodation are subsidised by the tax payer. My son left university with a good degree in business studies with a loan to repay of £20,000. Now I could whinge about that and say that in the preceeding years my taxes paid for others education why should my son not get the same. The fact of the matter is that people as a whole are not prepared to pay the right amount of tax to have free education, free health care, adequate care of the elderly. and subsidised transport which existed twenty or so years ago. Compared to some countries who have higher taxation and social costs we are lagging way behind. Will it change? No. Will our social provision improve? No. I am a true capitalist with a social conscience and not a left wing socialist so my comments are not political. I just wish we would all be prepared to give up more of our income and be demanding of polititians and civil servants (you know the faceless ones) to use it wisely. Oh dear the soapbox is wobbly I will have to get down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Sorry to go off thread and there is no chip just stating fact. Have some agreement with RupertGS and Porky but it goes even further than that. If the student is talented enough to go further there is not even the help of student loans so they have to find the fees the accomodation and all living expenses completely unaided. When you consider that by the time my daughter completes her Doctorate she will have been unassisted for eight years after her initial three for her degree, still with her student debt and still with the same job prospects, you can understand how only the rich end up running things. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Sorry to disagree but ... No one makes the students run up the debt - there are such things as jobs. My nephew went to University, admittedly he didn't have the £3,000 in fees to pay but he didn't have any debt at the end of his 3 year term either. Why? Because he got off his bum and got a job so that he didn't run up stupid debts in the first place. He used the student loan system to his advantage - at the time it was a very low rate of interest and he worked out that if he maxed out his available loan amounts he could bang it in savings accounts/ISA which gave a better rate of interest. He still had a great time at University and didn't miss out at all - you don't have to run up large debts to get the most out of it. He isn't from a rich family - he is very bright though and managed to get a scholarship to a local private school, as did his sister. What annoys me is these kids who go to University and expect to be able to just go to lectures and classes etc, write the odd essay and then do nowt else to support themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertGS Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Tuition fees £3500, rent for a shared flat £3000, living expenses and transport etc. etc. say £3000.That, based on a student being at university for 40 weeks of the year (unless of course you don't think that they should go home) works out at £237.50 per week. To earn a net wage of £237.50 per week their gross salary would have to be about £300 per week.Will some one please explain to me how a student, particularly one on a 'proper' degree course, can find a part-time job that pays that sort of money and still allows time for a proper application of his or her studies?I've no problem with students working hard in their holidays but to expect them to have to graft in term time, which would obviously be deleterious to the main reason why they are at university in the first place, seems to me to be extremely cruel, and I'm no pinko-liberal I can assure you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 I have no knowledge of Mels relative but how he was able to invest anything I don't know as nowdays the loans are paid in small repayable instalments not one off grants as it used to be. How he was able to achieve a 'good' degree whilst working for sufficient time to not have to use his loan (or did he get a grant?) he must be very 'special'. I suspect that as he didn't have fees to pay he was in the pre fee era and that was a whole different ball game. If your nephew had had to pay fees, where would he have got it? This £3500 + per year is what makes the current students run up debts. My daughter does work and has done all the way through her courses. She also worked very hard at her degree course which she achieved a first with Hons and gained a citation from the Dean as she was within the top ten in the UCL (from all disciplines) and a debt of over £10000. She now has her MA (a further £3750 per annum fees) is embarking on her Doctorate with fees of £7000 per annum for the next 5 years. Goodness knows what her final debt will be, but to take the career path she has set out on she will require a Doctorate. Now she doesn't complain (I do after years of paying in to the system) but how does anyone expect 'ordinary' youngsters to achieve their potential with this current system when they don't get the assistance that most had in the past. As Rupert rightly points out for all graduates, it is a costly business nowdays and there are no grants like there used to be, unless you are on benefit. Bas P.S. Sorry to go off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Sorry, had to post and run earlier as tea had just arrived! My nephew got a very good First class degree - he worked damned hard both on his studies and at his other work. He also worked during every vacation, be it serving in pubs, food outlets, offices - you name it, he would do it if needed to make sure he kept his head above the 'debt' line. He wasn't some 'nerdy' bookworm either, he was very popular with his peers. I had already said he didn't have the large tuition fees to pay but he did still have to eat, buy books, travel etc. He got himself a cheap cycle and used that to get around on - it's surprising how much he saved by not using public transport/taxis. He didn't want to burden his parents by having them pay to keep him and I have a lot of respect for him for doing this as his father is not well. His not having any debt at the end of his 3 years stood him in very good stead, he was able to take a couple of yeas out and go to Australia, American, Canada etc - working as he went mind to allow him to do what he wanted - and now works for a very good letting agency and has 3 properties of his own which he rents out to students. On the flip side and at the other extreme, I have a niece who is the laziest little madam I've ever know! She doesn't lift a finger to help her mum who is on a meagre wage and ends up running about after her daughter's (and her daugher's boyfriends!) every whim. She started University last year and I hate to think what debt she is in already, she hasn't got a job, either whilst studying or during the vacations - she just messes about on the computer all day and well into the early hours, then sleeps in until lunch time. I know what I'd do ... but she's not my daughter. Speaking from experience of seeing first hand what students get up to at University having worked at one in various areas since 1979, I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for those who run up large debts without even trying to do something about them and then are 'surprised' at the end of their course that they owe £20,000. Studying and working can be very hard - I've done it the other way, working full time, running a home, and studying 3 nights a week at University for several years ... get some of these students to try that and then let them try to tell me that studying during the day and doing some work at night is harder ... it certainly ain't! And how many students 'must have' a new laptop, a super-duper mobile phone, the latest fashion clothes, go out several times to pubs and clubs ... it all has a cost ... if that's what they want, then fine, just don't come complaining and expect me to pay for it out of my taxes. I'm not saying that all students are like this but there are a heck of a lot out there that are. If they want the benefits that this sort of education can bring, then it has to be earned - no one forces them to go to University, it is their choice, I wish I'd been in a position to have that choice when I left school at 16 - not a chance - if they think it's hard now, think back to what it was like then. Putting my soap box away now .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Mel B - 2009-09-02 10:22 PM I had already said he didn't have the large tuition fees to pay but he did still have to eat, buy books, travel etc. He got himself a cheap cycle and used that to get around on - it's surprising how much he saved by not using public transport/taxis. He didn't want to burden his parents by having them pay to keep him and I have a lot of respect for him for doing this as his father is not well. My earlier post was not for point scoring but giving an explanation of why the modern student runs up debt. The point you seem to be missing Mel is where would your nephew have got his tuition fees of £3500 without a loan or some other benefactor? It is soley this that has caused my daughters debt of £10000, in fact her debt is less than her outlay on tuition fees currently, proving that she has indeed tried to 'keep her head above water. As your nephew did not have to pay fees he would have been in the era that gave grants to go to University and if the family was not wealthy these were substantial. The difference now is there are absolutely no grants at all, unless you are very poor or on benefit. So whereas your nephew would have had that money to use for whatever purpose and pay no tuition fees the modern student has to find £3500 up front (agreed they may make it in two instalments) and also on top of that find their living expenses. My daughter has also worked extremely hard both at her part time employment and in the university but it still remains that the cost of the tuition fees is what has caused her debt not frivolous living. It seems to me, from your post, that you may have allowed your niece to 'colour' your thoughts on this and you are comparing apples and pears. With regard to leaving school at 16 and hardship, well I left at 15 went straight into one of the many jobs available (a good apprenticeship one of three I was offered) made the right choice and never looked back, I believe I had it easy on the jobs front compared to youngsters today. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Not trying to score points Basil, I've just seen many things whilst I've worked at University. There are students who just do their 3 years without a thought for the debt they'll be in and then start to complain when they suddenly realise they've got to pay it back, it's these that really cheese me off - if they won't help themselves, then why should I subsidise them? I remember seeing a TV news interview, a couple of months or so ago I think, of a recent graduate who'd ended up with a massive debt, £20,000 plus if I recall, he was complaining about having to start his working life with this hanging round his neck ... he lost any sympathy at all though, from me and also from the newscasters too by the looks of it and the representative from a University's students' union, when he said he'd not lifted a finger to do anything about it whilst he was at University, not working - nowt ... he'd just maxed out credit cards and loans and expected us to 'look after' him and let him off the debt - I think the news show should really have check out the full story before they went live on air as it was quite embarrassing with some of the things he was saying! Quite apart from the 'lazy' little madam of a niece ... I also have another niece (sister to the bright lad) who went to University a couple of years after him, she did leave with a small amount some debt but she is totally different in character to him, a lovely lass none the less, but not quite as savvy financially even though she did do jobs as well to support herself. As for not going to University myself, I wasn't given a choice by my parents, I was taken down to the careers office (as it was then called for school leavers) on the first day I could be and signed up for work experience for a year on a pitiful wage, it was so low that tax and NI wasn't paid, there were very few jobs around at the time so it was like it or lump it so I got on with it and went to college 3 times a week to get better qualifications. This was then followed by 3 months out of work, then a 3 month stint in a solicitors office on even less of a wage. When I finally got a job with a proper wage (I was even happy to have to pay tax and NI) when they rang to say I'd got it I cried! This was in the March and we were due to get married in September that year but were seriously contemplating putting it off - getting this latter job meant the difference between us being able to get married or wait another year (28 years on Saturday! :D ). This isn't mean to be a 'hardship' story, it isn't, its just how it was when I 'were a lass', jobs were very, very scarce and money was very tight. :-S As with all things, people are different, and experiences are different - I'm sure your daughter is hard working and sensible - looks like she takes after her dad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RupertGS Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Mel B - 2009-09-02 10:22 PM I wish I'd been in a position to have that choice when I left school at 16 - not a chance - if they think it's hard now, think back to what it was like then. Putting my soap box away now .... I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong! It was so much easier in my youth as it was free! If you were bright enough to go to university and your parents were working class, as were mine, you got a grant or free accommodation in a nice hall of residence. Your course fees were paid for and, if you had the time, and were able to get a nice litle part-time job, you could finish your spell at university with some money in the bank.The trouble nowadays is that too many people go to university and, instead of the nation's brightest, anyone of just average intelligence is persuaded that they must go to university. Three wasted years, loads of debt and no prospect of a higher-paid job to enable you to clear it quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Rupert .... I'm not going to ask you your age but obviously it was a different (earlier) era to me! We weren't even as high as 'working class' ... Money was extremely tight ... being able to go into the sixth form to do A levels was a definite no-no, never mind then being able to go on to do a University degree - getting a job was the only option, that's just how it was. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docted Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Is this a Motorhome Forum still? Perplexed and not a little confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hi my daughter has just finished at Notts uni, her experiences regarding getting a job. First year students have no chance, by the time they start looking the more savvy second and third years have snapped them all up. From an employers point of view, who do you employ? a student who you know isn't going to be about for long? or a local? and for every job, their are umpteen students applying for it. A student needs around £10,000 a year to survive, we paid her rent, she used her savings the first year and the student loan, the second and third years she got a job and student loan, and is now £15,000 in debit. In her final year she was working 20.00-05.00 Friday and Saturdaynight, plus freelance photography for an agency. While some students may not need or can't be bothered to work, many do, and combining that with study isn't easy. Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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