Vernon B Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Further to a recent thread on this topic, folks with 3.5t plus 'vans might like to know that the CC have included an update on the situation in the Sept Mag (page 84). Alternatively you can read the new regs on the Club's website by clicking on "News and Events" As far as displaying 80kph and 90kph stickers are concerned it would appear that the position is about as clear as the enforcement of headlight deflectors for foreign visitors to the UK. I quote - "The French Highway Code stipulates that 80 and 90kph stickers must be displayed by vehicles required to drive at the lower limits. However, we have been contacted by various members in France who have advised us that this requirement is being ignored and the French police are not interested in enforcing it." As someone who has a 6m 'van weighing 3.85t I don't stand out as falling within the new restrictions - unless I draw attention to the fact by displaying the stickers. So it's potentially a case of being damned if I do or damned if don't. Those ex pat members (who appear to be a little reluctant to give their names) might be correct but police priorities can change especially if brownie points are attached to the matter. I guess I'll get the stickers and at least be prepared in the event that the Daily Mail headine reads "French Police Crack Down On Overweight Brits" just as I'm about to cross the channel. Apparently the aforementioned stickers can be obtained from speedstickers.co.uk or by calling 0800 988 7329. Price not given. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klyne Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Speedstickers by name and Speedstickers by action, had mine within 2 days, not bad for a company run on a part time basis. It cost me £10 for two sets and signed for delivery. So one set by normal post about £5. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted August 29, 2009 Share Posted August 29, 2009 Can someone post a sample picture then we can copy them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 libby For sample pictures, all you have to do is visit the speedstickers website! Details of the speed limits are on: http://www.caravanclub.co.uk/News+and+events/News+Overseas/2009/July/Speed+limits+in+France+-+update.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Whilst on the subject of differing laws between member states.(I always thought that if a vehicle was legal in it's Country of origin (ie the UK) then it was OK in other Euro States ?? has this changed ? What about Large Trucks with Trailers with the trailer having differant registration from the towing Vehicle ?? A vehicle 'side-swipes' you on the motorway, you take his registration only to find that all you have is the Reg. of a trailer .... A Gaillic shrug of shoulders and basically 'you are stuffed' ! If they start enforcing idiosyncratic laws on us (Kilometre speed signs, when we use MPH in this country !) we should start enforcing 'towing vehicle registration on rear of all Trailers' in this country. >:-( >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 rayjsj Vehicle-related legal harmonisation only goes so far within the EU. Every EU country has its own traffic regulations - choice of speed limits, which side of the road traffic proceeds on, use of lights, etc. - and these may or may not apply to motorists driving in an EU country where their vehicles are not registered. For example, it's a requirement for a UK-registered car to have left-dipping headlights and a speedometer with mph and kmh scales, but these regulations don't apply to Continental-registered vehicles visiting the UK. It's sufficient that the Continental-registered vehicles' lights don't dazzle oncoming motorists. Conversely, our traffic regulations do not insist that a motorist driving in the UK carry a warning-triangle, first-aid kit, reflectorised jacket, spare spectacles or spare light bulbs, but another EU country's regulations may demand that some (or all) of these items be carried by every motorist that drives there. If an EU country has a regulation that compells a trailer to carry its own dedicated registration number, then (unless there's a UK law that specifically demands that every vehicle + trailer combination carry the same registration number on both vehicle and trailer, irrespective of a combination's EU country of origin) a vehicle + trailer from that country (and carrying different registration numbers) would be deemed legal while the vehicle + trailer combination was 'visiting' the UK. In any case, it isn't just the Gaills that tow trailers with 'non-matching' registration numbers - I've seen plenty of examples of UK drivers breaking our laws by doing the same thing. Although one country's vehicle-related regulations may seem idiosyncratic to people living in other countries, there's normally good reasons (historical or logical) why those laws were originally introduced (the infamous French 'Priority to the Right' rule is a classic example.) The difficulty comes when drivers travel between countries and there's a conflict beween the different countries' regulations. EU harmonisation exists to attempt to resolve such conflicts - that it doesn't always succeed should be no surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted August 31, 2009 Share Posted August 31, 2009 Surely if you have the registration number of the trailer you can trace the owner just as easily as if you had the number of the towing vehicle? Personally I think all trailers should be registered with a separate registration. This would be a great help in trying to trace stolen vehicles, caravans, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the game Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 Can anyone clarify this situation about speed stickers, does it just apply to mororhomes over 3.5 ton towing a trailer etc. We rang the caravan club today and that is what they seem to think. (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Momma Posted September 1, 2009 Share Posted September 1, 2009 From my experience of driving on non-motorway roads in Europe (France, Germany, Belgium, Switzerland etc) then a speed of 80Km is pretty good going and there would be little opportunity to go much faster anyway. So the only effect it would have on myself would be driving on the Motorways when I want to get from A-B quickly. just need to plan journey a little differently *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
602 Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 Hi, There are advantages in a trailer having its own registration, like when you have three tow-cars and two trailers. I would like to see it introduced into UK, but on a voluntary basis. I am assuming that one day, it will be mandatory anyway. My mate collected a procession of police cars, and then they pounced. "You are driving a stolen car!". His cardboard numberplate had fallen off the borrowed trailer, revealing the registration of the trailer owner's Range Rover....... which HAD been stolen. Oh well, at least it entertained the people standing in a nearby bus queue. :-D As for the speed stickers, imagine if British trucks had to display them ..... in MPH, and them went abroad. :-S And what do you do if you need a new UK numberplate while travelling abroad. Other than post your proof of identity and ownership to a licenced plate maker in UK? 602 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon B Posted September 2, 2009 Author Share Posted September 2, 2009 new to the game - 2009-09-01 8:22 PM Can anyone clarify this situation about speed stickers, does it just apply to mororhomes over 3.5 ton towing a trailer etc. We rang the caravan club today and that is what they seem to think. (!) I think there are at least a couple of ambiguities in the CC statement but as far as your question is concerned the requirements (I think) are pretty clear. The guidance on the CC website taken from the legal department of the Automobile Club de France sets out speed limits for three defined weight categories. The corresponding speed limits are quoted for Motorways, Dual Carriage Ways, and Single Carriageways. These categories and speeds are:- 1."A vehicle towing a caravan/trailer where the vehicle has a gross train weight mass of under 3.5t - or a motorhome that has a gross vehicle weight of under 3.5t. Speeds 130, 110 and 90 kph respectively (the National Speed Limits) 2. Motorhome which has a gross vehicle weight over 3.5t Speeds 110, 100, and 80 kph respectively 3. Vehicle towing a caravan/trailer where the vehicle has a gross train weight mass over 3.5t Speeds 90 90 and 80 Kph I think we should take it that in Cat 1 the motorhome weight limit should read “up to and including 3.5t” rather than “under 3.5t”. And in Cat 3 we should take it that the word “vehicle” includes “motorhomes”. So taking your question as worded ie “a motorhome over 3.5t towing a trailer”. This falls squarely in Cat 3 and – your trailer - would require the 90 and 80 kph stickers. Without the trailer your over 3.5t M/H would fall into category 2. In this category your speeds are reduced but none of these include a 90 kph limit. In the CC guidance it said “The French highway code stipulates that 80 and 90 kph stickers need to be displayed by vehicles required to drive at the lower limits” but no reference is made to displaying stickers for the lower limits of 110 and 100 kph. So if we follow the CC guidance to the letter it would seem that if you drive your over 3.5t M/H without a trailer in France you only need to display an 80 kph sticker because the 90 kph doesn’t apply to Cat 2. I suspect, however, that the CC was focusing primarily on its Caravan Members that fall into Cat 3 and we Cat 2 Motorhomers with over 3.5t vehicles will need 110, 100, and 80 kph stickers. Unless anyone else knows better. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamer Posted September 2, 2009 Share Posted September 2, 2009 During a recent trip to France I notice a motorhome with the three speed values (110, 100 and 80). It was obviously over 3.5Tonne (ours is 4.0Tonne) and this gave me an indication of the speed I was allowed to legal travel at on dual carriageways and motorways. I had only been able to previously ascertain the 80kph for single carriageway roads. I believe Vernon is correct that the three values need to be displayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 The following link is to a discussion on the interpretation of Code de la Route articles R413-8 and R413-8-1. http://www.totalfrance.com/france/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69544 There seems to be some doubt over whether the latest clarification provided to the Caravan Club by the Automobile Club de France is in fact "definitive". I also note that the format of 'speed stickers' is said to comprise black numbers on a white background. More links relating to this issue can be found by GOOGLE-ing on "R413-8 France". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I have just ordered my stickers from Speed Stickers £ 8 -50 inc. postage 110-100-80 said I would get them to-morrow for that price is it worth not having them , I carry spare light bulbs, first aid kit, reflective jackets and fire extinguisher as required by French law so why not stickers ?? :-o :-o :-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 vindiboy - 2009-10-12 11:32 AM I have just ordered my stickers from Speed Stickers £ 8 -50 inc. postage 110-100-80 said I would get them to-morrow for that price is it worth not having them , I carry spare light bulbs, first aid kit, reflective jackets and fire extinguisher as required by French law so why not stickers ?? :-o :-o :-o I agree entirely. Got mine ready to go, but also being 6m and 3850Kgs I will keep them available should I get stopped. I am of an age where an occasional loss of memory could easily be accepted by a young and enthusiastic policeman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 emmbeedee - 2009-08-31 6:47 PM Surely if you have the registration number of the trailer you can trace the owner just as easily as if you had the number of the towing vehicle? Personally I think all trailers should be registered with a separate registration. This would be a great help in trying to trace stolen vehicles, caravans, etc. The Trailers on foreign HGV's are used a lot like Containers, they may be attached to vehicle (a) being driven by 'Hans' on Monday (when the Trailer 'Side swipes' you on the Motorway) but by the time you trace the owner of the said trailer it has been attached to vehicles (b,c,d,e and f) and is now in Bulgaria attached to (G) . Which Driver do you bring 'to book' to pay for your damage and/or Injury I'm not after the owner.....he wasn't driving!!!!! No the UK system is better ! and long may it stay as it is. Ps. The 'side swipe' happened to me, and my Insurers said the Driver AND owner were untracable on the (correct) reg. number supplied. One lost 'no claims bonus' , luckily my missus wasn't injured, just 'Bloody Terrified' I now have to 'Pull well over' when overtaking a foreign registered Truck or the Missus gets Hysterical. >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Sorry, getting 'Back on Topic' why aren't our 50mph and 60mph stickers adequate ? can anyone tell me ? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Well, Rayjsj, the UK system only identifies the owner, doesn't it ? BTW, the UK system is pretty lousy in my experience. I've had two occasions where the owner or driver couldn't be identified. 1. The car concerned drove straight across a red light directly at me. I had to literally leap for my life on to the footpath. Result - police never traced woman driver, number never issued, evidently false plates. She appeared to be in a trance (on drugs?) 2. Car drove straight at me in a car park. This was after I asked the driver to be more considerate when parking in future. He had blocked in several vehicles. He then tore out of the carpark at high speed. I noted his number. On the way out of the car park he narrowly missed a young mother carrying a baby. She spoke to me & asked if I wanted to report it, as she was an off-duty police officer. She had noted the same number as me. Result? Police never found him. Car was registered to an address in Sheffield, but all occupants there denied knowledge of the vehicle. I did speak to our chief constable about this & he agreed with me that our system has problems in these cases. It's fine for tracing law-abiding people, though. The morning after the fracas in the car park my shop window was smashed. Coincidence? I don't think so, I was standing alongside my signwritten van when the yob drove at me. So this little episode cost me two hours plus in the cop shop & £250 for the broken window. I lived in New York for over 7 years & their system of number plates (& motor vehicle control generally) is far superior to ours. I believe many European countries have better systems than us also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Well the stickers arrived as promised and are now displayed on the rear of my van ,I get excited each timevI see them as I am looking forward to Going over again soon . :-o :-o :-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I cannot see that you are required to display stickers on a UK reg vehicle in another EU state , as there is no requirement to do so here. It certainly is not a HGV requirement when going eu . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vindiboy Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 tacr2man - 2009-10-14 5:12 PM I cannot see that you are required to display stickers on a UK reg vehicle in another EU state , as there is no requirement to do so here. It certainly is not a HGV requirement when going eu . So as our speed limits are different here do you also think you should ignore the limits in the country you happen to be in also? I read a thread on here recently about a fine issued in Spain to someone towing a car behind his van and not displaying a VEHICULO LONGO sticker, LONG VEHICLE ,not law here but law in Spain. :-o :-o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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