I wonder if this might help keep us sane?

[Vernon B]

I’ve just read webbocj’s thread and begin to despair at the risks we run when purchasing a motorhome. His story is all too familiar and has remained so for many years. Can there be any other mature business sector that fails its customers so frequently?

 

It seems to me that the introduction of ISO quality systems, industry awards and such like have made little or no difference. Despite current complaints about Fiat and quality issues with ‘van builders I’m increasingly of the mind that the main problem lies with the dealer.

 

It is the dealer that provides the interface between the manufacturer and the end user; it is the dealer that operates on a scale that should make it accessible and sensitive to individual needs; and it is the dealer that has the major stake in developing long term customer relationships. A few dealers understand this but the majority do not. That’s not to say we are served by crooks but rather that they are simply not up to the job. “Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do” perhaps best sums up how we have to react to many of their attempts at customer service. And perhaps that should be where we start if we really want to change things.

 

Consider for a moment if we had our own “terms and conditions” when we entered into purchasing a new or used ‘van from a dealer. Suppose those spelled out in plain language what we expected from them. Suppose those expectations were perfectly reasonable and within their power to deliver. Suppose we insisted that they sign up to those “terms and conditions”, or perhaps more accurately “pledges”, when we signed their purchase order. And suppose all those going to the NEC in October with a view to buying a new ‘van went armed with this little piece of paper and were only prepared to do business with dealers that would sign on the dotted line. Would it make a difference? Well in this economic climate I think it just might.

 

What I have in mind is a pledge sheet containing no more than 6 or 8 headings under each of which would be 2 or 3 actions required of the dealer. A one pager, no small print.

 

Having in mind the regular flow of experiences and complaints through this forum I would envisage the following main headings to which I have added some broad indications of what they might cover:-

 

1. DISCLOSURE

 

The actions under this heading would require the dealer to disclose the nature of any recalls, significant warranty claims or other indicators of component/equipment failures which might affect the performance of the vehicle you were about to purchase. To carry any weight the wording would have to talk about the disclosure of information that it would be reasonable to expect the dealer to know. The section would also state what action the dealer would take if you encountered any of these problems with your particular vehicle. But remember we can only expect the dealer to sign up to actions that they personally can authorise or deliver.

 

 

2. FOLLOW THROUGH

 

Here I would like to see the dealer commit to assign a named individual to monitor the procurement of your vehicle and the steps that person would take – pro-actively – to keep you informed of progress.

 

3. DELIVERY

 

This section would deal with situations arising from significant delays in the delivery of your vehicle. It would cover, for example, what rights you would have to cancel the agreement and/or to what extent you would be protected from future price increases or reductions in pre-agreed trade-in values.

 

4. HANDOVER

 

Here I’d like to see a procedure which creates the opportunity for us to road test (over say 20miles) and fully check out the interior and habitation equipment before the vehicle is registered and taxed – two actions that make it very difficult for us to reject the vehicle - even when we've never seen it before. I would also like the customer to be taken through the contents of the PDI and be able to withhold say 2.5% of the sales price until any identified problems were rectified to their satisfaction.

 

5. CUSTOMER SERVICE STANDARDS

 

Here I’d spell out how long a dealer should take to get back to us on a telephone call (48 hours?) an e-mail (5 days?) or a letter (10 days?)

 

6. AFTER CARE

 

In this section we’d need to address things like the availability of spare parts and possibly fuel costs when a vehicle has to be returned for warranty work.

 

Anyway, if we could act collectively that’s the sort of thing I think could make a difference. Any thoughts?

 

I do recognise that some dealers already cover some of these points but not as comprehensively as I have in mind. Moreover I do think this approach, with us issuing them our requirements, could shift the perceived balance of power and get their attention. Moreover it just might help them “know what they should do”

 

V

 

[nowtelse2do]

Vernon

         What a sensible thread and maybe use it for 2nd hand vans also.

Dave

[mike 202]

Agree it may keep us sane, but it ain't going to happen.

 

My dealer part of a large group told me Quote " The motorhome industry is a cottage industry " and that it was normal to get 6 to 10 faults occur on a new motorhome. He then said that if the vehicles were driven for a 100 miles or so then some of the shakedown faults would be apparent during their PDI. As it is customers want only a few miles on the clock so the faults will be there but hidden.

I have had faults on my new purchases and it was a nuisance to go back to the dealer for rectification, but in the end it helps a lot if the dealer and staff are helpfull.

As the french say C'est la vie.

[Bob Elswood]

Very good thoughts Vernon B.

 

I would also like to see something similar introduced!

 

We bought our motorhome new, back in 2004. Fortunately we have had no major problems, but I put that down to luck, rather than judgement !!

 

Although there are some very helpful dealers out there I get the feeling that most look on us lot as 'having more money than sense !!! ' ( no offence to anyone intended !! )

 

I would not personally buy 'new' again!!

 

But you live and (hopefully) learn !!

 

I think your proposal would give most dealers nightmares to say the least! and I doubt that you would find a dealer that would want to do business with you !!

 

On another note when I 'change vans' in the future I will not be looking at any Sevell based vans in view of all the probs and denials that I have read about on this site !!

I know that this will not exempt me from other probs with other manufacturers but at least I would have peace of mind that at least I will be able to reverse up a hill without burning the clutch out or 'knackering the gearbox !!!

 

I also realise at the moment it will severely restrict my choice of vehicle, but if people were to put pressure on dealers to turn the 'screws' on a bit, then it might just alter the present 'attitude' of certain coachbuilders and base vehicle suppliers !!

[rupert123]

I know a lot of thought has been put into this post and it would be nice to see but will not happen. I recently spoke to the service manager of the outfit who supplied my van when I collected it from its first service. He had been in the M/H business for a number of years, before that worked for a car main dealer in the same job. He said it was at about the same stage as the car business was in about 1970 and would never get much better. The main problem is the divided area of service and repair to the van base and the caravan part, until a Fiat, Renault, Ford etc make the complete thing the problem will remain. It is ok simply stating the law that the dealer that sold van is liable but it practice it does not work. The dealer I have been going to has done their best, they have built a relationship with local Fiat dealer who comes to their premises once a week to do Fiat services and to check out Fiat problems, so at least I can get the work done at the same place. I cannot agree most dealers are bad, in my experience most are trying to do the best than can in difficult circumstances.

The service department of a M/H, caravan dealer is usually small so in the front office you will usually have one person trying to answer the telephone, sort out jobs, ordering spares and organising handovers, not easy. As has been pointed out the M/H industry, even in Europe, is a cottage industry compared to the car one so to expect it to run on the same lines is not realistic. If you want a M/H new or secondhand I am afraid you will have to accept the problems that will go with it. Finally I would point out that nearly all the problems I have had over the years relate to the bought in parts, cooker, heating, fridge etc and as only a small number of firms supply these to all makers then this is yet another issue someone has to deal with.

[Brock]

Good try, Vernon.

 

It might work better if it had teeth and could be enforced with confidence. As I tend to choose the dealer before I choose my van, I see a lot of merit in me having a tick list or something to check their competence. Perhaps something that says, don't bother trying to do business with me unless you meet these needs.

 

I know one dealer who believes some of his customers like the occasional fault because it provides them with an opportunity to visit the dealer and chat. We might think we all had something better to do than that but perhaps it is not that surprising when we are so interested in our hobby and can build friendships with our dealers. The dealer said he did not mind because it helped provide an opportunity to talk to the customer and build a long term relationship. In an ideal world, he said there would be no faults but if that were so, would people still visit their dealers?

 

Being a cottage industry is not an excuse. If you try and bring big business methods to a cottage industry, you will fail. You need to understand the industry and the customers and start from there.

 

For a good example of a successful cottage industry, look at Madisons (now Hymer UK) and their link with Hymer. A bad example might be Brownhills at Newark.

 

 

[Porky]

Nice idea Vernon and the logic is sound. The difficulty comes with implementation. I think we will all best protect our interests both individually and collectively by getting to know your dealer. In this respect any information which can be gleaned from this forum and others, and talking to existing customers will help to build up confidence and trust. Dealers are in fact people not organisations and they have a vested interest in repeat business, but they are also human and respond differently to polite, well informed and patient people than to impatient, ill informed and arogant people (although I appreciate there are actually none of these out there!!!!!)

Planning and knowledge is everything and I think many problems occur through not doing enough of one and having insufficient of the other.

Maybe we need to be as critical of ourselves as we are with the people we do business with. {thought for the day??)

 

Roy Fuller

[Vernon B]

Thanks for those half a dozen generally positive reactions.

 

Questions:- Could the poor level of response to these kinds of suggestions be the main reason why M/H owners don't get the level of service they think they deserve? Or, As a group do we prefer complaining rather than trying to change things?

 

Consider:- "If you always do what you always did - you'll always get what you always got"

 

 

[Porky]

Vernon I think you may be right about lethargy within motor home owners. On the two occasions I have started a thread to get some action on parking through local pressure on councils the response was very poor. Look at the whinging and whining threads and they go into several pages. The Australians had us as a nation summed up as whinging pomms.

On the whole I think we end up with what we (collectively) deserve. Nothing in, nothing out.

 

Roy Fuller

[rolandrat]

The best thread I have read for some time, all the points mentioned should be sent by recorded delivery to every one involved in the leisure industry headed "Get your act together".