Gas attacks - towards a definitive view.

[Guest martin]

I've been digging after Roger's posting and the facts about ether are: Flash point: -45C (-49F) CC Autoignition temperature: 160C (320F) Flammable limits in air % by volume: lel: 1.9; uel: 36.0 Dangerous highly flammable, clear, colorless Odor: Sweet, ethereal odor. Specific Gravity: 0.71 at 20C/4C Vapor Density (Air=1): 2.6 Vapor Pressure (mm Hg): 440 @ 20C (68F) Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1): 37.5 What do these figures mean? That it is heavier than air for a start. So atomised through the rear and open roof vent of a van it would fall over sleepers using a fixed rear bed more easily than rising to an over-cab bed … unless there's an over head vent or open window with access. Looking at medical data texts suggest that onset is slow but after induction at 6-8% "patients can be kept insensible with 2% ether" As for the effects: Ether is associated with a slow onset and a slow recovery. The vapour is initially unpleasant to breathe and causes irritation of the bronchial tree which may slow down the induction of anaesthesia. The incidence of nausea and vomiting is higher with ether than with other agents and the frequency is related to the concentration of ether. There are certainly plenty of reports that point the finger at members of eastern European countries for this type of crime and we must now accept this as a real threat - but react proportionately from knowledge. Getting that knowledge is the problem. Despite some people's dislike of journalistic techniques, I do think some serious pooling of brains, research and checking with acknowledged experts such as the police including the European intelligence agency, Europol, and medical experts is called for. I can cite three cases in Copenhagen which have been reported to Europol in the Hague by the Danish police. This all makes an interesting and valuable article for MMM – but the editor never replies to my emails so one of his regulars will have to phone him and suggest it! Not an hysterical panic piece designed to sell product; but some sensible and simple precautions of what to look for in an Aire/Stellplatz that’s safe: what sort of air flow is necessary to counter the 150 or so mls of ether in an aerosol – assuming they aren’t using Diethyl ether from the chemists, which is cleaner (safer) and freely available. What counter measures are there? How many ppm (parts per million) trigger the alarms available and where to fit it given the characteristics of the stuff given above? Putting it in the cab is no use if you have a rear bed! Knowledge and help is needed, not puff to sell alarms and cause panic. As they used to say on a certain tv show - "Give us the facts, just the facts" Is a small battery unit that fits to the bed's headboard available? – I don’t know but I’m going to find out … I'd argue that MMM should be on the case and proactive in giving best advice. I’ll write it up and phone Europol (there’re in the Hague +31 70 302 5000), some gas men (medics not those idiots at Centrica), academics and independent security experts too if it will be used in the mag. Well what'd'you think???

[Guest david lloyd]

Hi Martin I think it's a great idea. We have heard far too many conflicting reports to be able to take a rational, balanced view and I fully agree that MMM would be the right medium to get a more factual piece across. david

[Guest bill h]

Do these guys carry a ladder then to gain access to the roof? If all the known air vents are closed is there enough free air in a vehicle to sustain two people for 8hrs? My guess is that a small chink in the roof vent of under 1/4 inch is enough to allow the circulation of air so to adjust the 'lid' of the roof vent overhanging the bodywork to only just off of the bodywork may be an answer in dodgy places. And where to put a gas alarm, right under the fresh air entry, lay it on top of the fly screen under the opening. Not familiar with the alarm size or weight though. bill h

[Guest Derek Uzzell]

Martin: I'm not sure if MMM has ever commissioned articles from 'private' individuals but, if you are prepared to write a piece on this subject and submit it for publication, I'm confident it would be well received. Besides the police and experts, it should be worth checking what data the manufacturers/vendors of gas alarms have. Presumably there must have been sufficient initial evidence of the crime to encourage the makers of these alarms to believe it would be financially worthwhile to produce them. I'm aware that another forum member has been actively researching this subject, so you may be able to share information.

[Guest Basileuo]

Martin, How do you determine that it is heavier than air? Surely with an SG of less than one, you quote 0.7, this makes it just over half the density of air and would thus be displaced by air causing it move in an UPWARD direction or non technically it would RISE not fall!! Even now there seems to be misunderstanding of this myth!!

[Guest martin]

Vapour density is 2.6 (Air 1)? But you are spot on - that is why I want to seek professional advice, not deal in fear, conjecture and urban myth.

[Guest John S]

In my posting of 5th Feb I drew attention to the gas alarms from Lidl priced at £12.99. The subject was aired again 5 days later by David, and I, along with others, purchased one. I can now report, following the latest posting by Martin, that I have tested mine for the first time using a spray of Holts Cold Start ( containing Diethylether and Diisopropylether) whatever they may be and the response was immediate. A penetrating series of high pitched notes were emitted which any normal person could not ignore nor sleep through. I have not tried it with Butane or Propane gases but it certainly works with Ether based gases, if it is these which are being used to knock out sleeping motorhomers. A good buy I think at £12.99. Probably all sold by now! John S

[Guest martin]

I did actually look at these in the store but it was not clear at the time what the agent used was, nor if these did the job. It appeared to me to be only propane/butane sensitive and required power rather than battery powered and therefore independent. And an inefective alarm is worse than none at all giving a false sense of security! I am not challenging what you say in any way, but you write "containing Diethylether and Diisopropylether whatever they may be" - could it be other molecules in the Cold Start that are triggering your alarm? Looking at manufacturers' web sites detectors can be quite specific. How do these things work? You only reinforce my argument that we should seek knowledge and advice from experts - who know precisely what they are talking about.

[Guest Pat P]

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments above that there needs to be scientific data and an article in MMM would be brilliant! We have just fitted the Lidl £12.99 alarm. It tells you to test it with a gas lighter. We did and it worked. I presume the lighter runs on propane or butane. Chris was cleaning the dash with Cockpit cleaner (he must have been bored!) and that set the alarm off at the back of our Hymer. Not sure what is in Cockpit cleaner? Pat

[Guest martin]

The Lidl alarm, model GA607, is manufactured by Dexaplan GmbH in Heilbron. This alarm is quite specifically sold as a methane detector and is NOT designed specifically for Diethyl ether. I will contact the company on Monday, but meantime the message is clear: BEWARE THIS MAY NOT GIVE YOU THE SECURITY YOU THINK YOU'RE GETTING! If you can't wait their hotline is 07136 910888

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Oh no, not another gas attack string! I agree, yes, we do need facts. An article in MMM would be good if it can be factual and informative. In that connection, I think perhaps we shouldn't necessarily get too hung up on ether, or Easy start as its source, until we know a bit more. It's appealing, but not (yet) proved. I've tried e-mailing both the Home Office and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to ask whether they have any further information on such attacks, the agents used, incidence and/or corroboration of reports. This was late Friday p.m. so it'll be a while before anything comes back. Europol sounds good as well. Any other offers? I think the present (understandable) fixation on vents and alarms may just be a bit of a red herring. Maybe just a bit of a leap in the dark. If someone injects ether into your 'van the alarm will (should, if it's the right one!) trigger before you are seriously affected. However, now you're awake, what are you actually going to do? Your assailants are outside and, unless there are others around who have been awakened by the alarm, they'll probably have little incentive to leave in a rush. They may, of course, but they may decide to carry on injecting in the hope you'll succumb before you turn nasty! On alarms, for example, once aroused you could go outside in your jim jams to confront them, Rambo style - that would definitely be the best way to avoid the affects of the ether (or whatever). You'll just have to decide for yourselves how frightening your sleep sodden appearance might be! Or you could stay in and hope they're frightened off by the din before you keel over. Neither appeals much to me, so I think we need something a bit more constructive before we alight on instant "solutions". It might be useful to try to agree, in general terms, what kind of alarm is required. One that merely wakens you with noise inside the 'van would be useful to alert you to LPG leakage, but would not, I would suggest, be much use against an attempt at anasthesia with intent to rob. That alarm would surely needs to make enough noise outside the 'van to awaken the dead and should, I think, operate in conjunction with a strobe so that the source is immediately identifiable. Very loud noises, and strobes, are both a bit disorienting, and both together should firghten the living daylights out of your potential assailant. It might even induce a epilyptic fit - now there's a thought! However, I'm no expert so some advice here would be useful. Now, do you really wont want all that lot to go off in the middle of a campsite whenever you get busy with your cockpit cleaner! (Cockpit cleaner!!!????????? - please!) It seems there will need to be some selectability of modes or, if feasible, specific detector sensitivity so that the response reflects the danger. If people know what they want it can be made. It may be necessary to persuade a producer that there is a market, but if we can show that the risks are real, and what agent/s are known to present the threat, the solution should be no more than selecting the right bits. Industrial detectors are produced for many gases, presumably where those referred to above are sourced. On the question of vents: you can't eliminate vents altogether. Some are essential for safety and must not be blocked. To speculate a bit, it seems our "gassers" can't be expert on where the vents are located on all 'vans - there are just too many. They are probably opportunists who either look for one they know about, or prowl around until they see one that looks easy. We'll never know for sure, the attacks are too widespread and infrequent. There may be only one or two groups doing this. The reports are no more than spasmodic, and seem to come from almost all across Europe. How many thousands of miles of road is that? Even if all vents were blocked, and assuming Easy Start may be the culprit, it comes in a handy aerosol. You can fit extension probes to most aerosols. The probe would easily slip past the rubber window seals on most motorhome windows, and your ether's in!. The common recommendation for recovery from all the narcotic gases I found was to remove the victim/s to fresh air. That suggests you need more ventilation, not less, to avoid the affects. The more freely air passes through your 'van, the better. The ether will then escape as quickly as it can be injected. That way it would have zero affect on the occupants. To summarise, we need to establish what is the narcotic (probably on a balance of probabilities in the absence of concrete evidence). We need to know in what quantities it is readily available. We need to know the concentration necessary for anasthesia, and the duration necessary for unconsiousness. If we can discover these things, we should be able to determine the volume (average motorhome) that quantity of narcotic could reasonably fill to the necessary concentration. That would give some idea, for example, whether one can will "do" several motorhomes or whether one motorhome would need several cans. Based on that knowledge it should be possible: 1 To assess how much ventilation (natural or mechanically assisted) would be required to defeat the attack, and 2 Whether an alarm should aim to rouse the just occupant/s, rouse a wider area, or both, and whether it should have an external signal so that the origin is clear. 3 What course of action should be adopted by anyone who suspects they being attacked in this way. 4 What strategy should be adopted (other than stopping only on campsites) to avoid becoming the target for such attacks in the first place. I'm more than happy to contribute to this in any way and to whatever extent others would like (or can tolerate!). Regards to all Brian

[Guest Ian]

Hi All, Another aspect to this that I would be interested in: Most MH have a carpet and most have a fabric of some type for roof-liner. Surely a MH that has suffered an attack from any gas would have residual smell left in these fabrics, carpet if the gas was heavier than air and roof liner if lighter? Just a thought? Regards, Ian

[Guest Brian Kirby]

What's your interest, Ian? Do you want a motorhome with the smell, or without? Brian

[Guest Ian]

Brian, My only thought was that, by analysing the gas residue, one would know what gas had been used. I have never actually met anyone who has been gassed or, for that matter, anyone who knows anyone who has been. I have only ever heard of these events from at least third hand but would welcome the chance to be able to find out what gas has been used. It is my thought that (IMHO)if ether is the type of gas used, that I am surprised that there have been no fatalities as, without medical or at least very careful administration, this gas could be lethal. Your further views would be of interest. Regards, Ian.

[Guest bill h]

You may not wish to know but I had my tonsils removed under ether, and that wasn't the ladies name. bill h

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Ian Sorry, couldn't resist! This really started with Roger's string of 27/02/06. If you look back to that, someone suggested Easy Start was a possible narcotic and that it contained ether. It also seems to fit the bill fairly well regarding easy availability. It is actually Bradex Easystart, made by Holts, and their website contains a hazard warning notice for the product. The main constituents are, indeed, diethyl ether and di-isopropyl ether. Both are listed elsewhere as anasthetics. You're right about its dodgy characteristics, and it certainly doesn't seem to have done Roger and favours! It is also highly flammable and, as Mel pointed out, that could be very problemmatic if injected via fridge vents when the fridge was running on gas. Maybe the gassers and smarter than we wish to think and check for heat from the gas vent, and maybe there have been the odd cases of 'vans suddenly going up in flames on aires etc. If you were inside at the time, and got out, you'd probably never consider ether as the cause - you'd be far too busy counting your blessings for having escaped! If you didn't escape, of course, it would be natural for the authorities to assume a gas leak (LPG) was the cause. The problem with analysing carpets for residues is the necessity for sophisticated phorensics, availability of the affected carpet and a co-operative, identifiable, victim. If Roger is still listening, does your van have carpet and is it likely any residue might still linger? Brian

[Guest Ian]

Hi Brian, Somehow I guessed that your first comment was a little tongue in cheek!! Regarding Roger’s report of a clearly very frightening attack, I think it is most unlikely that any useful residue would remain in the carpet from an incident in July 2000, nearly six years ago. Further I completely agree with you that any attack that went wrong and ended in a fire could simply be explained as a camping accident. What concerns me is if a life was lost through careless administration of this gas, which is quite possible and, given the number of robberies put down to gas attacks, could be considered overdue, then intoxication of noxious substance would be found in PM. With this outcome tissue would be analysed and the nature, and identity, of the gas used would have been made known to the world. Now, can you imagine the furore that would follow the publication of such information? So, taken that this event has never happened, the mystery deepens even further. So we have to come to some conclusions; we start thinking that, either, there are a great number of incidents blamed incorrectly on gas inhalation or that these robbers are immensely talented at evaluating how much gas to administer to different sized vehicles. The second conclusion is, obviously, most unlikely! My opinion, worth no more than anybody else’s, is that many of these vehicles are broken into WITHOUT the assistance of a toxic gas but that it is possible that the either, or whatever, is administered AFTER the break-in by way of a cloth placed over the mouth/nose in the “conventional” manner. The fact that some substance has been used to keep the occupants quiet is shown by the feelings of disorientation and grogginess over the following days. So, again, your further views would be of great interest. Regards, Ian

[Guest KeithR]

ian, that sounds feasible, its what is rumoured to be happening to houseowners on the costas (good to know we are not the only victims, if you know what i mean!!).of course, these rumours are also all 3rd hand. i lock my doors,switch my alarm on, switch on my gas alarm, leave all my vents open and close the windows around the (fixed rear) bed. i sleep soundly, with my no7 iron in my hand!!

[Guest Michael Shaw]

I applaud the suggestion of moving to a definitive view. As a traveller and ex industrial chemist may I comment as follows. At only £12.99 the Lidl alarm must have a very basic,unselective (i.e. broad spectrum)detector cell. "Easystart" does not contain methane but does contain narcotic esters of ether and diethylether which is particularly narcotic. This, and the units' sensitivity to "Cockpit Spray" (N/K but likely a mixture of low volatile esters,solvent(s) & a carrier)would suggest a detector likely to be triggered by almost any volatile ester or organo-solvent; it may even be sensitive to excess aftershave !. There would be no easily detectable residue shortly after an "attack" due to the volatility of these compounds. One thing thast puzzles me about all these stories is that there have been no recorded deaths, as noted by a previous correspondent. The margin between a successful 'knockout'and death with this class of narcotics is very narrow. This would require very close monitoring of the vehicle occupants' progress whilst "gassing" them. Perhaps the assailants calculate the volume of the vehicle, then read the internal temperature to correct for vapour pressure, then count the number of occupants AND their bodyweight before finally looking up their appropriate dose tables for a) the initial knockout and b) the maintenance dose to ensure temporary narcosis without death. Wouldn't a paying day job be less hassle ?; that's why anaesthetists are well paid !. However, it is important that "gassing" is thoroughly researched; if true then these clowns could end up killing us.

[Guest Ian]

Hi Michael, Thank you for adding the point of view from someone qualified to speak on these matters. Rather than going back over my, and others', previous posts and illustrating were these facts fit with your own, I would just refer to your last sentence: If true these clowns, etc. In the complete adsence of proof, and at risk of upsetting some, I would conclude that anyone who claims to have been attacked by the means of gas injected into their motorhome has either been impossibly lucky or is mistaken. So the urban myth is either solved, or not, depending upon your point of view. It is now clear in my mind. Regards, Ian

[Guest Michael Shaw]

Thanks Ian, Since posting my contribution my mystery shopper (why she goes shopping so often is a mystery to me)has been trying to find one of these gadgets, unfortunately Lidl stores aren't common around these parts. IF we find one I will run a few simple tests in the workshop, in which case I will report the results here. What we also need, to really settle the matter, is some medical & statistical evidence i.e. : a) For how long after narcosis are ether residues detectable in a live body &/or corpse; have any "victims" ever received medical treatment or examination following "gassing" ? b) Have there been many, or any, unexplained deaths of travellers within PARKED vehicles whilst touring ? After careful thought the only rational explanation that has come to mind is that, through trial & error, the "assailants" have managed to find, on average, how many seconds spraying are required to KO the average camper in an average size vehicle under average conditions of temperature & atmospheric pressure and that knowledge has then been spread amongst the unwashed of Europe. However, I think this very unlikely; remember the infrequent but not uncommon number of people who died in the old time dentists chair, or hospital, from the days when ether was a standard anaesthetic; and that was under controlled conditions.

[Guest Tony Hunt]

So my earlier attempts at trying to warn people of this possible danger were not in vain. Somebody has actually started to get the message across to all the doubters. Scaremongering, urban myths we're not going to waste our money on alarms for something that isn't possible they were all shouting when I made a few posts on the subject a while ago. A very good friend of mine ( if he had a computer) would describe first hand how he and his wife were gassed in a french motorway aire on their way to Spain. They lost everything valuable in their van while they slept, money, passports, credit cards, jewellery and no they hadnt been drinking the evening before.

[Guest Michael Shaw]

Ian, We had to go "up country" today i.e. away from S Devon beach civilisation so were able to find a Lidl store. Have purchased one of these gizmos & will test it this week. Regards, Michael

[Guest Michael Shaw]

To Martin, Ian & Others interested; The £12.99 Lidl/Dexaplan GA 607 is in fact a katharometer. Working backwards from their own figures it has a sensitivity of approx. 1,000 - 3,000 parts per million (ppm)with regard to the common hydrocarbon fuel gases (methane,propane, butane ), well below the air/gas detonation point for such gases. These devices are fairly insensitive (well below say gas chromatography standards) though sufficient for their purpose as fuel gas safety monitors. They are typically also fairly unselective, hence the results below. I'll skip the boring methodology bits, other than spending a pleasantly heady few hours in the workshop (no wonder kids sniff these kinds of stuff !). I could not calibrate the ppm but the scale 1* (slow &/or weak response) to 3* (rapid/strong response)will give a ROUGH indication of the detector's sensitivity: methane*** butane*** propane*** acetone*** propanol** aftershave(as predicted!)* toluene*** xylene*** benzene/petrol *** ethanol* ; the following produced no response: methyl chloride, dichloromethane, tetrachloroethylene ,nahptha, diesel. These results suggest the GA607 unit will quite probably respond to dimethylether (& as confirmed by Mr John S with his "Easystart"). They also suggest a probable nil sensitivity to chloroform. We shall certainly now install the 'test' purchase at floor level. If nowt else it will warn of XS splashings of Chanel or Brut & also act as a breathalyser before setting off for a night out (on foot of course). DISCLAIMER: Sorry but I accept NO responsibility for anyone acting on this information. Regards, Michael.

[Brian Kirby]

Earlier on this string, I undertook to see if I could shed any further light on the incidence of the above, or upon what is being done, Europe wide, to counter this.

 

After pursuing various enquiries with the Home Office, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the British Embassy in Paris, without obtaining any meaningful or helpful response, I decided to approach my local, South East Regional, MEPs.

I sent each of them a document summarising the situation as presently understood, the enquiries I had made, and the responses received.  In this, I pointed out that the problem was one of crimes that were committed in various European countries, usually upon citizens of other European countries, generally reported to local police but, mainly, to the press when victims’ returned home.

 

Just so’s you know, there are 10 of these august folk.  They are:

 

Mr Daniel Hannan, Conservative.

Mr Nigel Farage, UK Independence Party.

Mr Nirj Deva, Conservative.

Baroness Nicholson of Winterbourne, Liberal Democrat.

Mr Peter Skinner, Labour.

Mr James Elles, Conservative.

Mr Ashley Mote, Independent.

Mr Richard Ashworth, Conservative.

Dr Caroline Lucas, Greens.

Mrs Sharon Bowles, Liberal Democrat.

 

I received replies from three only: Mr Hannan, who did not consider this a fit matter for Europe, since (I paraphrase) they already interfere too much in our day to day lives, Mr Ashworth, who considered - despite my recounting the Foreign Office’s response that they do not deal with crime in other states in a generalised way - that this should be drawn to the attention of the Foreign Office, and Dr Lucas, who had taken the trouble to read and inwardly digest before responding.  So who now says higher education is a waste of money?  She, bless her, had passed on an excellent précis of my comments to Max-Peter Ratzel, the Director of Europol.  She subsequently replied to me enclosing Mr Ratzel’s reply.  His reply, in essence, is that Europol is not free to determine its own remit.  It exists to respond to, and co-ordinate information on, cross border crime at the request of the governments of member states.  In essence, it is an intelligence gathering and dissemination organisation. 

However, what he did say (again I paraphrase) was that it was of great importance that anyone attacked in this way should insist that the local police do take full note of the attack, recording the names and addresses of the victims.  Only through this means, can the incidence, spread, and nature of the attacks be monitored, and possible investigations initiated.  Finally, he added that Europol had been aware of the prevalence of reported attacks in Spain and knew that Spanish Police had, as a result, made a number of arrests.

 

So, at least someone replied constructively, and someone is keeping an eye on the situation, albeit at a distance. 

The main lesson, I suppose, is that if you have the misfortune to be the victim of such an attack, do persevere with the local Police and try to ensure that a proper crime report is prepared.  Try to get a copy of this to bring home, see if you can get a translation, and at least send that to the FCO.

 

Regards to all