catinou Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 On checking the Motorhome Friendly and Unfriendly Parking Site I was confused by the following: "The DfT sent a final response on 7th April 2009: I am writing in response to your e-mail to me dated 1st April 2009 concerning your Freedom of Information request and your recent correspondence with the Highways Agency. In your e-mail to the Highways Agency Inquiry Line dated 31st March 2009 you asked for: Could you please supply details of national legislation (if any) which: 1) gives people the right to sleep overnight in a lay-by or otherwise parked on a road: a) in a bunk built into the cab of a large commercial vehicle b) in the beds which are part of a motorhome/camper van c) in the beds which are part of a caravan. 2) prohibits people from sleeping overnight in a lay-by or otherwise parked on a road: a) in a bunk built into the cab of a large commercial vehicle b) in the beds which are part of a motorhome/camper van c) in the beds which are part of a caravan. The Highways Agency Inquiry Line subsequently forwarded your request to our Freedom of Information Team here in the central Department as they believed that it would be more appropriate for us to respond. To clarify, the Department for Transport was formed in 2002 and is made up of a central Department and seven Executive Agencies, one of which is the Highways Agency. The central Department and the seven Executive Agencies are classed as one public authority under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. My letter to you dated 30th March 2009 confirmed that the information that you requested in relation to part 1 of your request above is not held by this Department and that includes the Highways Agency. I can also confirm that the Department, which includes the Highways Agency, does not hold any information in relation to part 2 of your request as detailed above. As suggested in my previous letter, if you haven’t already done so, you may wish to consider contacting your local authority who may be able to help you with your request." 8-) 8-) 8-) For full script click here - http://www.motorhomeparking.co.uk/roads.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Yes, just do it! Nobody is going to send you to jail! At worst a police officer will just ask you to move on. Make sure you're not drunk or unfit to drive just in case. Don't leave rubbish, don't empty the loo! Parking outside someones house or across their gate, including farmers fields, isn't recommended, but apart from that there isn't an issue. Trespass, which may be what you are technically committing, is not a criminal offence so you can't get arrested. The land owner has to get an injunction to move you on so if you are just there over night you will be gone before they can get to the courts. Even if there are no over night parking signs just ignore them. Lorries do it all the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Ah but it's so nice to know the history of the department isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Hi, It might be worth knowing that it is an endorsable offence to drive on private land without authority ...... except for up to 15 yards for the purpose of parking. But note, you must park. And 15 yards is probably the total distance driven, I don't think you can drive 100 yards staying within 15 yards of the road. Also, although this is not a criminal offence, the land owner can still sue you in a civil court. :-D 602 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 Still confused - but thanks for the replies..... My husband is of the opinion that if "they" can't shoot you for doing it who cares, as long as we leave no sign of our presence when we leave, so I guess we'll keep doing it. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Mmmmm, very interesting. I'm sure Tracker will be glad of that piece of information. As he likes nothing better than to doss down in a layby. :D (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 The Law as it stands ( The Highway Code ) states the following Parking at night 248 You MUST NOT park on a road at night facing against the direction of the traffic flow unless in a recognised parking space. [Laws CUR reg 101 & RVLR reg 24] 249 All vehicles MUST display parking lights when parked on a road or a lay-by on a road with a speed limit greater than 30 mph (48 km/h). [Law RVLR reg 24] 250 Cars, goods vehicles not exceeding 1525 kg unladen weight, invalid carriages, motorcycles and pedal cycles may be parked without lights on a road (or lay-by) with a speed limit of 30 mph (48 km/h) or less if they are at least 10 metres (32 feet) away from any junction, close to the kerb and facing in the direction of the traffic flow in a recognised parking place or lay-by Other vehicles and trailers, and all vehicles with projecting loads, MUST NOT be left on a road at night without lights. [Laws RVLR reg 24 & CUR reg 82(7)] _______________________________________________________ It follows that any bright eager young constable can enforce the law if he so wishes. I dont think a PCSO or Warden could do this Most of us would be parked on out of the way lay-bys which would be on roads with a speed limit of over 50mph so rule 249 would apply. So the answer must be no we cannot, ( if you wish to abide by the law ) Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Surely then if you have parking lights on, in a layby and are facing the same direction as the flow of traffic then it is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Randonneur - 2009-09-24 6:57 PM Surely then if you have parking lights on, in a layby and are facing the same direction as the flow of traffic then it is legal. Correct but would you park all night with your parking lights on ? Alf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Grumpy Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Every year the Appleby Horse Fair attracts thousands of "travellers" who park on grass verges for 20 miles around Appleby. Some of them arrive three weeks before the fair starts and they are never moved on by the police. Unless there is one law for "travellers" and one for the rest of us then there can be nothing illeagle about parking on a verge, without lights and for weeks at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 Mr. Grumpy - 2009-09-24 7:53 PM Every year the Appleby Horse Fair attracts thousands of "travellers" who park on grass verges for 20 miles around Appleby. Some of them arrive three weeks before the fair starts and they are never moved on by the police. Unless there is one law for "travellers" and one for the rest of us then there can be nothing illeagle about parking on a verge, without lights and for weeks at a time. Mr Grumpy, Are you telling you are not aware of the law as applied to Travellers:- Travellers may park on any roadway or roadside without lights. Travellers may park on private land without the owner’s permission. Travellers may remove gates or any other obstacles that restrict entry to said land. Travellers may intimidate anyone who comes within range of their vehicles. Travellers may leave as much rubbish as they see as reasonable to do. Travellers are invisible to the local constabulary. Travellers are immune to procecution. I going to buy a big gold chain to hang round my neck & tow a Tarmac trailer then I can park anyware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porky Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 We are constrained (and protected) by law in this country. I for one will excercise my right to ignore what I consider to be pointless legislation drafted to cover all eventualities,and instead use my common sense and appreciaion of and protection of my environment, as well as cosideration for the well being and safety of others. Roy Fuller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Some years ago I did a spot of HGV driving (part time) to supplement a low income and have tried sleeping in lay bys - I say tried because I never succeeeded in getting a nights sleep!! I'll continue to use campsites, CL's/CS's and even aires (where they exist) for now. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 peter - 2009-09-24 5:41 PM Mmmmm, very interesting. I'm sure Tracker will be glad of that piece of information. As he likes nothing better than to doss down in a layby. :D (lol) Not quite Peter - I've NEVER used a lay by as an overnight - there is no need when so many safe and scenic other locations exist and simply await discovery by the more adventurous amongst us. Oh - and before anyone complains again - I'm not knocking site users? 'Chacun a son gout' - if my French is right - if not no doubt someone will soon tell me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coachman Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Was up near GLEN COE and had enough for the day, it was late so parked in cutout/layby side of road. Sometime after midnight i heard a vehicle pull up at the front of us and as they were quite i settled back again. Was woken up again with voices and activity so just had to take a look , it was the police moving on a young couple in their car , did not come to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 I know it's off the topic but really annoyed by the state of this country. The police come and move on a couple doing no harm and yet the Head of Criminal Justice in Leicestershire Police says that dealing with a gang of youths who terrorized a mother and her daughter in their home over a long time until she went to a secluded lay by and set fire to the car, killing both of them, was not a job for the police. More words fail me. ( Daily Telegraph Sat 26th Sept Page 10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Same reason that motorists are persecuted and taxed so much Roy - easy soft traceable targets of, mainly, honest people who are easy to catch and fine and who will pay up like good honest citizens and say nowt - as opposed to gangs of yobs who know their rights (but not their responsibilities it seems) and who will do their best to resist and make the Police's life as difficult as they can whilst contributing nowt to the economy or to society. Rant over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Only just seen this thread as we've been at the Lincoln Show. To give the people at the DfT their due, thay have stated the facts as they are required to do. I contacted the HA after initially contacting the DfT because I didn't realise they were part of the same body - not the fault of the people who responded. As far as "Can we or can't we" goes I thought I had summarised the position in the three paragraphs at the top of the page referenced - i.e. we can so long as we comply with the Highway Code and any local legislation which exists. If any bits aren't clear please e-mail me through the web site with specifics and I'll see if I can re-cast the wording to make it clearer. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 GJH - 2009-09-28 3:31 PM If any bits aren't clear please e-mail me through the web site with specifics and I'll see if I can re-cast the wording to make it clearer. Graham The 'problem', if there is one, is that local councils set the rules, i.e. I believe cornwall has a blanket ban on sleeping in laybys, so it can only be answered by a specific entry for each council, a 'bit' more work for you :-S It should also be noted for trespas, if there is two or more people in van and if anything that could be construed as damage to property ouchers, or if asked to move on by landowner or agent of landowner and foul or abusive langauge is used in return, then it becomes a criminal act of trespass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 The 'problem', if there is one, is that local councils set the rules, i.e. I believe cornwall has a blanket ban on sleeping in laybys, so it can only be answered by a specific entry for each council, a 'bit' more work for you :-S Concentrated on off-street parking initially but have been moving on to on-street in rceent months. Not more work just part of the ongoing programme :-) Of course, if anyone else wants to do the "work" feel free :-) Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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