Never Never Another Peugeot

[Mike Marshall]

Hi all, my first post and a somewhat negative one, and I normally don't do negative, but as I was prompted by the Peugeot NON customer service, who "really aren't bothered about me posting anything on the forums" I simply couldn't resist . >:-)

My 6 year old Peugeot Pollensa with 2L HDi, had performed faultlessly both in Europe and the UK, having purchased it new from the brilliant Spinney motorhomes in Cheshire.

Towards the end of September I set off for annual trip to Scotland and luckily (only because of the distance), four miles from home a clattering started, which sounded like a noisy tappet, this was followed by a loss of power and then finally a red light at which point, I had already de-clutched and was coasting. The engine had obviously seized and recovery was called.

A return to my local garage and a discussion resulted in the removal of the sump to inspect any potential cause.

The sump was duly drained of oil and kept safe ;-) and the sump removed in order to inspect the bearings shells etc.

Upon removal of the sump, the chain that drives the oil pump and two chunks of metal were found in the sump base. Removal of some shells also showed extensive damage as a result of this chain loss. The interesting part was, where the chunks of metal had come from.

I left this with the garage (non Peugeot) and gave them the order to remove the engine and investigate further.

Removal of the crankshaft revealed that the chunks of metal had come from the end bearer of the crank nearest the oil pump pulley and is clearly a casting fault showing the striations in the crankshaft and the perfectly matching chunks found in the bottom of the sump. There are also significant marks on the pulley driving the chain to the oil pump, another indication that the chunks had interfered with the pulley and subsequently have assisted in breaking the chain.

So it was off to Peugeot, because this engine has only covered 28K in the six years I have had it and I felt it was unreasonable for this type of crank failure. Full service history and always the correct oil and always Peugeot parts. This is where the story gets interesting...bear with me please :-D

I contacted the Customer services and my local Peugeot Garage (Llandudno), at which point they requested the whole vehicle to be brought to them, as it was in many parts at the time I suggested that I bring the engine, which I did the same day.

No contact was made from Peugeot at this stage it was pretty much all one way...inwards.

Eventually I received a call to say that their preliminary investigation had revealed that I had run the engine dry. I asked them not to insult my intelligence at this stage and reminded them that I am an engineer by trade. I have a significant amount of photos of this and it is clear that the cylinders, the cams and the half of the bearings sat in oil in the sump are all still fine, so I asked how they came to this conclusion. I was told that the crank was taken to a local garage, where the owner is an "expert" in crankshafts and has been all his life. I asked why a company the size of Peugeot are referring to a unknown, local garage to make their decisions for them and also asked who was it that examined the crank. The response was that the "expert" was not in at the time so the crank was shown to the son who decided I had run the engine out of oil!!! So Peugeot were basing my problem on the son of a person owning a local garage (chop shop??).

Eventually the "expert" called into the garage, took a look at the crank and said "its a crank fault". The garage then rang me back to confirm this, thankyou Peugeot a liability admission B-) Some headway??

The episode has reached a crescendo today after several more non replies, a couple of weeks, some waffling and some very illogical reasoning from their technical department..."ah well you didnt always have it serviced at Peugeot, we dont know how hot the oil was at the time of the incident, We dont know how much oil was in it at the time of the incident, therefore we dont accept any liability" 8-) Now there's a surprise.

But the goodwill of customer services have come with the offer of a replacement engine (Refurbished, not new) for a mere £3500!! and whats more they would give me a brand new one for £4500. In both cases only 12 months warranty. But in their kindness are offering to pay 50%. I know damn well that covers completely the engine and all their time to fit it and I can purchase one with three years warranty for much less than that.

So you can see my eagerness to buy another Peugeot motorhome after this incident I'm sure. NEVER NEVER AGAIN, because the beautiful facades of the Peugeot garages and the Customer support systems are in fact facades and within those garages are empty voids of support and care.

Question is where now?? Its already logged with Trading standards :-D

Any suggestions of a reputable place to purchase a replacement engine??

 

Mike

 

Can you post pictures on here??

[libby]

Looking at picture (1) my view is that the problem is rooted directly from the first pouring in the production line process in the forging foundry.

 

It is not related to types of oil or no oil, neither how the engine is used or how many miles it’s covered, or how old it is.

 

The female section of the flaw shows distinctive flow lines emanating from the foundry ‘stamping mould line joint’ with a pronounced centre line defect showing.

 

Problems like this can occur at the beginning or end of a production run when

 

1. The liquid molten steel may be unstable, with the possibility of impurities being present at the cut-off point of the hot metal sprue. (The molten liquid nozzle).

 

2. The material being poured into the moulding was minimal causing a short shot.

 

Should there be not enough ‘surplus material’ in this singular part then unstable cooling of the part would follow (compared to other parts in the same batch run).

 

At this point it is likely that a flaw in the material structure “had already occurred”. This would not be noticeable unless x-rayed. It is possible that a random x-ray test was carried out on sample parts.

 

Following the forging, machining takes place and the part enters production procedures. I doubt if the problem could ever have been found unless each part was individually x-rayed. Individual inspection costs money!

 

Faults such as these are one of life’s hazards and cannot be predicted. It is the fault of no single person or company.

 

How you view a company that offers you some redress is your choice.

 

Bill

[Mike Marshall]

Bill,

Many, many thanks for your valuable input.

 

I naturally have some initial anger ;-)

 

 

Regards

Mike

[lennyhb]

I’m inclined to agree with Bill it is probably a manufacturing fault.

 

Under EU law there is no time limit to seek redress for a manufacturing fault but a reasonable time is usually accepted as being 6 years. The big but is that it is up to you to prove it in a court of law.

 

Peugeot would probably take the view that you were negligent in use of your vehicle as the mileage you have covered in six years is less than most commercial vehicles would cover in one year. This would then be reasonable to assume the vehicle has been left standing for long periods allowing the oil to drain from the bearings contributing to the problem.

 

Now you could take Peugeot to court I would only do it if you can afford better & more expensive experts & lawyers than them and if you win after spending many ten’s of thousands you may not get your costs awarded, the new engine is probably the cheap option.

 

The price for the engine sounds reasonable, cheaper than a Ford Mondeo engine & my friends son recently brought a S/H engine from a breaker for his Honda Accord for over £2000.

 

I think it’s a case of s**t happens sometimes & it’s just bad luck I don’t think you would have much luck with any motor manufacturer after six years, you will just have to chough up, grin & bear it.

 

 

 

[Guest JudgeMental]

The legal avenue I would be extremely cautious of.

 

I would look around for a second hand option first then make a choice.

 

You can try arguing with them again with the info you have from Bill.

 

Good luck and I hope you get it sorted.

[dream machine]

I can imagine your feelings in this case -

IMHO -seems to me that Yes it could well be an original fault during Manufacture - however as your MH is now 6 years old

it can be a tough (and as already stated an expensive) job getting a sucessful claim against the Manufacturer.

 

Genuine original Peugeot Warranty is 2 years + 1 year additional supplying Dealer Warranty - so have you contacted the original dealer you purchased the MH from as they have at least equal liability ?

 

 

Also did you strictly maintain the servicing regime as stipulated in the original Warranty terms ?

That means did you get it correctly serviced EACH 12 MONTHS using only genuine Peugeot parts by either a Peugeot Dealer OR a fully qualified & competent Independent garage ?

Come to that have you had the Timing Belt changed ? as they recommend it's done at 5 years !

If you have not complied with any of the above then it could be said by Peugeot that you have broken the Warranty terms by neglecting maintenance !

 

 

This is assuming you did purchase it NEW.

 

 

In my humble opinion if you can get Peugeot to supply & fit a NEW engine at a decent discount then thats probably your best & most cost effective option - but insist it's covered by the usual 2 YEAR warranty ...................... and just put the rest down to bad luck I'm afraid.

 

I notice you don't mention what mileage yours has done - is it high mileage ?

I've only had my 9 year old Boxer based MH just 2 years now with genuine 27000 miles from new - so far without a problem - and hope it remains that way.

 

Thats my 2pennies worth ...............Good luck

[libby]

Milke

 

You can of course have the parts x-rayed and checked for specific metalic elements in and around the fractured point. Its likely a one in a million fault and you were the one to find it.

 

Any further venture will be almost as costly as a replacement engine, which you have been offerered.

 

Bill

[Mike Marshall]

All,

Many thanks for the responses. All encouraging :-D

I have had further conversation with Peugeot and have now settled on an amicable agreement for the replacement engine.

My experience of the legal route in a past life is both expensive, traumatic and the only ones benefiting are the legal eagles.

I would rather put my money into the local hospice/charities, than their pockets.

 

Seems the best way to go and its been hanging around for a few weeks now, moving on, in the Van

(lol)

 

Cheers for your comments.

 

Mike

[woody.]

I had a similar problem with ford many moons ago , my problem was a lump of metal coming away from one of the piston heads causing me to have a scored cylinder head this of course meant i neede new pistons a rebore and head reground , ford said i had run the engine dry of oil and water , i told them how fastidious i was about these things and the garage backed me up they knew me well , but after much arguing and letter writing to ford i decided to get the jobs done because i was getting no where with them and get the van on the road again , i did and carried on enjoying my travells ,, i never did get anywhere with ford . So you see its not only peugeot , one can have the same problem with any manufaturer .

[Losos]

Mike Marshall - 2009-10-14 9:58 PM I have had further conversation with Peugeot and have now settled on an amicable agreement for the replacement engine.

Mike, that seems to be the logical solution and much less stressful than going down the legal route. The old engine will still be yours and maybe there will be some bits that you could remove as spares, I dont suppose there will be much but you could look at it as a way of reducing the replacement engine cost :-)